The tag and the elephant in the room

[ABQCOWBOY]

If we’d of managed some of our other contracts and players better we wouldn’t need to bicker with Dak.

It’s amazing how we are standing firm with Dak but didn’t on others.

I don't dispute that but then again, when the time came to "manage" other contracts, you got the same exact response from fans, you see with Dak. "Pay The Man", "The Team Can Afford A Few More Thousand" etc...... etc...... So really, while I understand what you are saying, it simply doesn't justify doing that now. I didn't agree with the Zeke contract early and I'll probably see posts arguing that it was a good deal, based on what I write here, but that's what I thought then and what I think now. Having said this, the deal we wrote with Zeke, while too high, was structured very well and we will be able to get out of that deal fairly soon, if we decide to. I didn't like the the Lawrence deal, I didn't like the Romo deal, the list goes on but at the end of the day, the team did those deals and now we are left to deal with the circumstances that resulted. To say, "Then we shouldn't have done this or that......", while probably true and justified statements, it doesn't change the facts in the here and now. This is a bad deal with Dak if we overpay because we don't have the cap and it does prevent us from improving through FA or resigning our own talent. That does effect the quality of team we can put around Dak and that directly effects Dak over the entire course of his career in Dallas. Dak aint the guy who can get you to the promise land with lessor talent. If he were, we wouldn't have seen what we saw from Dak in 2018, before Cooper came over. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking Dak to be that guy who can overcome lessor talent, there are really only 2 or 3 of those guys in the NFL now, IMO, so I understand that and that's fine. However, the point is that Dak is not one of those guys so you aren't going to see improved results once the roster starts to deteriorate. That's the simple truth here. It doesn't help us get closer to a Championship or even being competitive and it really doesn't help Dak, football wise. It really only helps his pocket book and his agents pocket book. You can say that it's OK if that's all it does and I understand that but I am not in favor of that because I'm a team guy, not a Dak guy or any other specific player. I will always want to do what is best for the team, rather then any one specific individual, especially when the money we are talking about is more then substantial, in comparison to the results we've been shown.

That's how I see it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Dak won't no-show because the Cowboys can then just apply the tag next year, so this is a pretty silly premise.

If he doesn't play, it doesn't really matter what the Cowboys do, because they won't be competitive anyway.

Yeah, this is not accurate at all. I mean, France is not afraid of this strategy because he uses it with his players all the time. Besides, the way this is done is that tagged players hold out for as long as they can, before they are penalized with a "missed" season and then they report. So you sign the tag, then you don't show up until like week 9, or whatever it is, and then you basically come in middle of season and maybe you don't start or you aren't effective in your play but you get paid and then you are an FA the next off season. If you play poorly, you simply say, "I missed camp, had no offseason and missed a lot of time and so it effected my numbers but you can see what I can do when I have the prep." So this is how players and agents get around that and get to FA. In the case of Dak, it's even easier because he can just claim that his injury prevented him from returning earlier so technically, he can actually be with the team but refuse to pay because of medical reasons. If the team does not agree, his agent just claims that the team wanted him to play early and that their medical people didn't agree with the risks associated. It would be really easy to simply sit out the majority of the season and get paid. Nothing the team can do about it really.

As to the ability to compete, well, we competed with a guy last year that had very little prep or time in the Offense and we did OK. Not great but better then we did when we had Dak so I don't know how the conclusion is drawn that we will be worse or better with Dak or with another QB. If the Defense is better and the QB is equal or close, the results will likely be better IMO. But the important thing to consider here is that if you get into a bad cap deal, the results won't matter for several years and after those several years, you will be right back where you are right now, starting with another QB. If you make a wise cap decision, you can improve your team and develop a QB, all the while, maintaining a solid financial structure.

 

[Diehardblues]

I don't dispute that but then again, when the time came to "manage" other contracts, you got the same exact response from fans, you see with Dak. "Pay The Man", "The Team Can Afford A Few More Thousand" etc...... etc...... So really, while I understand what you are saying, it simply doesn't justify doing that now. I didn't agree with the Zeke contract early and I'll probably see posts arguing that it was a good deal, based on what I write here, but that's what I thought then and what I think now. Having said this, the deal we wrote with Zeke, while too high, was structured very well and we will be able to get out of that deal fairly soon, if we decide to. I didn't like the the Lawrence deal, I didn't like the Romo deal, the list goes on but at the end of the day, the team did those deals and now we are left to deal with the circumstances that resulted. To say, "Then we shouldn't have done this or that......", while probably true and justified statements, it doesn't change the facts in the here and now. This is a bad deal with Dak if we overpay because we don't have the cap and it does prevent us from improving through FA or resigning our own talent. That does effect the quality of team we can put around Dak and that directly effects Dak over the entire course of his career in Dallas. Dak aint the guy who can get you to the promise land with lessor talent. If he were, we wouldn't have seen what we saw from Dak in 2018, before Cooper came over. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking Dak to be that guy who can overcome lessor talent, there are really only 2 or 3 of those guys in the NFL now, IMO, so I understand that and that's fine. However, the point is that Dak is not one of those guys so you aren't going to see improved results once the roster starts to deteriorate. That's the simple truth here. It doesn't help us get closer to a Championship or even being competitive and it really doesn't help Dak, football wise. It really only helps his pocket book and his agents pocket book. You can say that it's OK if that's all it does and I understand that but I am not in favor of that because I'm a team guy, not a Dak guy or any other specific player. I will always want to do what is best for the team, rather then any one specific individual, especially when the money we are talking about is more then substantial, in comparison to the results we've been shown.

That's how I see it.

The fans response should always be “ pay the man” . Unless you don’t want to retain the player. It’s up to the owners , GM and coaching staff to sort thru it.

I don’t see how any of us are qualified to know whether 35, 38 or 40 million will make or break our team this year and beyond. Too many moving pieces that can transpire

We are left to chew on those decisions and the results thereof. It’s something we can speculate on after the fact.

I’d bet most who are opposed to signing Dak are against even 35 much less 40. They don’t see him for the kind of numbers he’s put up. They are using their eye test instead.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The fans response should always be “ pay the man” . Unless you don’t want to retain the player. It’s up to the owners , GM and coaching staff to sort thru it.

I don’t see how any of us are qualified to know whether 35, 38 or 40 million will make or break our team this year and beyond. Too many moving pieces that can transpire

We are left to chew on those decisions and the results thereof. It’s something we can speculate on after the fact.

I’d bet most who are opposed to signing Dak are against even 35 much less 40. They don’t see him for the kind of numbers he’s put up. They are using their eye test instead.

Why should the fan's response always be "Pay The Man?" Why is that?

You say that you don't see how any of us are qualified to know whether 35 or 38 or 40 will make or break the team and yet, in the next breath you claim that all fans should always support the "Pay The Man" attitude. What if the number just can't be done, while managing the cap? What then, we should just pressure the team into paying no matter what the consequences are? How on earth does that track? I think you have to pick a horse here. You are either for responsible cap management or you are not and you yourself acknowledge that we can't know if we can or can't afford to pay any given price. I mean, how do you quantify those two positions? They both can not be right.

For everybody's information, Fish reported, just this morning, that Dak's agent said this:

Signing Bonus: $60 Million
Guaranteed Money: $124.5 Million
Fully Guaranteed At Signing: $100 Million
Overall Dollars: $124.5 Million
Contract Length: 3 Years
Average Per Year: $41.5 Million

Key takeaways:

*We continue to be told that Dak's ankle rehab is going fine. Not a factor.

*Falcons quarterback Matt Ryan, from 2018, got $94.5 million fully guaranteed. This Prescott's deal would exceed that.

*Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson's $65 million represents the biggest signing bonus in league history. This Prescott deal would exceed that.

*We've discussed the idea of adding voidable years for the purpose of lessening the cap impact. This proposal does that, putting Dak's 2021 cap number at just $17 million - which would help greatly in Dallas' "cap clog'' ... its ability to get busy doing other business.

*We've also noted the timetable here. That business is stuck (unless the Cowboys make other cap-space moves, some of which are already planned) with the March 9 deadline to tag Prescott looming.

So this contract would represent the most expensive, in all aspects and the least beneficial, in so far as what is best for the team and cap. This is what Dak's team is driving and my question, why on earth should the Cowboys do a deal like this? This does nothing, other then guarantees that the team will not be able to compete for the next three seasons and that once this contract is up, the team will be in worse shape then they are now but, Dak and his agent will be back at the table and wanting even more money. So how does this end well? Why should fans support the players? Nope, I don't think so.

 

[Diehardblues]

Why should the fan's response always be "Pay The Man?" Why is that?

You say that you don't see how any of us are qualified to know whether 35 or 38 or 40 will make or break the team and yet, in the next breath you claim that all fans should always support the "Pay The Man" attitude. What if the number just can't be done, while managing the cap? What then, we should just pressure the team into paying no matter what the consequences are? How on earth does that track? I think you have to pick a horse here. You are either for responsible cap management or you are not and you yourself acknowledge that we can't know if we can or can't afford to pay any given price. I mean, how do you quantify those two positions? They both can not be right.

For everybody's information, Fish reported, just this morning, that Dak's agent said this:

Signing Bonus: $60 Million
Guaranteed Money: $124.5 Million
Fully Guaranteed At Signing: $100 Million
Overall Dollars: $124.5 Million
Contract Length: 3 Years
Average Per Year: $41.5 Million

Key takeaways:

*We continue to be told that Dak's ankle rehab is going fine. Not a factor.

*Falcons quarterback Matt Ryan, from 2018, got $94.5 million fully guaranteed. This Prescott's deal would exceed that.

*Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson's $65 million represents the biggest signing bonus in league history. This Prescott deal would exceed that.

*We've discussed the idea of adding voidable years for the purpose of lessening the cap impact. This proposal does that, putting Dak's 2021 cap number at just $17 million - which would help greatly in Dallas' "cap clog'' ... its ability to get busy doing other business.

*We've also noted the timetable here. That business is stuck (unless the Cowboys make other cap-space moves, some of which are already planned) with the March 9 deadline to tag Prescott looming.

So this contract would represent the most expensive, in all aspects and the least beneficial, in so far as what is best for the team and cap. This is what Dak's team is driving and my question, why on earth should the Cowboys do a deal like this? This does nothing, other then guarantees that the team will not be able to compete for the next three seasons and that once this contract is up, the team will be in worse shape then they are now but, Dak and his agent will be back at the table and wanting even more money. So how does this end well? Why should fans support the players? Nope, I don't think so.

Because we should want to keep all of the players. I think we should have 80 on a roster.

And that contract Jethro should jump on . 3 years is perfect. That’s will be a good time to move on if it doesn’t work out,

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Because we should want to keep all of the players. I think we should have 80 on a roster.

And that contract Jethro should jump on .

Why? Why should we have this opinion and what data justifies that position?

The team should not "jump on" that deal. That kills any chance of winning a super bowl for the duration of the contract IMO so why should the team do that deal?

 

[Diehardblues]

Why? Why should we have this opinion and what data justifies that position?

The team should not "jump on" that deal. That kills any chance of winning a super bowl for the duration of the contract IMO so why should the team do that deal?

Super Bowl . Lol

 

[Diehardblues]

For everybody's information, Fish reported, just this morning, that Dak's agent said this:

Signing Bonus: $60 Million
Guaranteed Money: $124.5 Million
Fully Guaranteed At Signing: $100 Million
Overall Dollars: $124.5 Million
Contract Length: 3 Years
Average Per Year: $41.5 Million

If this is correct, 3 years would be perfect. We have his key supporting cast signed for 2 more years .We should know by then. Then we can start over if you want.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Super Bowl . Lol

What proof that signing that deal will result in a Super Bowl?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

For everybody's information, Fish reported, just this morning, that Dak's agent said this:

Signing Bonus: $60 Million
Guaranteed Money: $124.5 Million
Fully Guaranteed At Signing: $100 Million
Overall Dollars: $124.5 Million
Contract Length: 3 Years
Average Per Year: $41.5 Million

If this is correct, 3 years would be perfect. We have his key supporting cast signed for 2 more years .We should know by then. Then we can start over if you want.

Know what? And if we do find out, what is it that we do then?

 

[CouchCoach]

So, he did count this year as the 1st of a 4 year deal, he really wants to renegotiate in 2024. That was the sticking point in the last attempt.

If that's the real offer, I pass and non exclusive tag him and let him see if any other team wants that deal. I also take a QB with that 1st pick.

 

[Diehardblues]

Know what? And if we do find out, what is it that we do then?

We have our offense all signed. We’re set there. And focus on bringing in some help in the draft on defense next two seasons. Maybe pick up a bargain in FA. That’s what we do.

If it doesn’t work then you start over if no more success.

But if we let Dak walk then we have this offensive juggernaut of talent placed on hold until we find another QB or develop one without a defense to fall back on. All for what?

 

[Diehardblues]

What proof that signing that deal will result in a Super Bowl?

I’m laughing at placing the Cowboys and Super Bowl in same thought.

This dysfunctional franchise is so QB dependent it’s pathetic. Without Romo and Dak lucky finds this debacle of a franchise would be 5-11 , 6-10 every year

 

[CouchCoach]

We have our offense all signed. We’re set there. And focus on bringing in some help in the draft on defense next two seasons. Maybe pick up a bargain in FA. That’s what we do.

If it doesn’t work then you start over if no more success.

But if we let Dak walk then we have this offensive juggernaut of talent placed on hold until we find another QB or develop one without a defense to fall back on. All for what?

If offensive juggernaut is the goal, then Pitts or Chase, Waddle or Smith are the pick at 10. Any 1 of those 4 is more immediate impact than Parsons, Farley or Surtain. Air Coryell lives again!!

Gallup in a contract year and Lamb in his 2nd with Cooper? Turn it loose. And who is to say that they can't get lucky and make the Big Dance with that offense?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So, he did count this year as the 1st of a 4 year deal, he really wants to renegotiate in 2024. That was the sticking point in the last attempt.

If that's the real offer, I pass and non exclusive tag him and let him see if any other team wants that deal. I also take a QB with that 1st pick.

boom............................................................................................................................

 

[Diehardblues]

If offensive juggernaut is the goal, then Pitts or Chase, Waddle or Smith are the pick at 10. Any 1 of those 4 is more immediate impact than Parsons, Farley or Surtain. Air Coryell lives again!!

Gallup in a contract year and Lamb in his 2nd with Cooper? Turn it loose. And who is to say that they can't get lucky and make the Big Dance with that offense?

The juggernaut is with Dak. We have seen what he can do with them. The others are an unknown.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

We have our offense all signed. We’re set there. And focus on bringing in some help in the draft on defense next two seasons. Maybe pick up a bargain in FA. That’s what we do.

If it doesn’t work then you start over if no more success.

But if we let Dak walk then we have this offensive juggernaut of talent placed on hold until we find another QB or develop one without a defense to fall back on. All for what?

No, we don't. We have to replace a LT, which is key and not cheap and that will likely be a FA. If we sign DAk, then it's probably also a 1st round pick so there is some relief there but you still need a starter at LT so there is cost right there. Gallup isn't signed and he will need to be replaced so there is another FA and more money. We still need to figure out what our backup sito is and before everybody says Dak don't get hurt, we don't need anybody real, don't. That myth has died a hard death, after last season. We basically have two more seasons with Zeke and after that, we need a guy. Dalton Shultz is an FA next year. Williams is an FA next year. That's just on Offense that I am aware of, off the top of my head. Defensively, we are void of talent all over. We need guys at every position group and really, multiple guys because we also have no depth.

Your plan calls for a cap killing deal with little to no chance of success and then, after the poor contract has forced us to let valuable players go, you advocate that we simply start over, three years later, with less talent on the team, is that correct? You, if I am not mistaken, doubt the teams ability to find a QB and develop him, correct? But you advocate a plan in which you not only call for us to do that again, three years later, with less talent, you bank on the idea that we can draft well over the next couple years and find players and also that we can uncover cheap FA talent.

Serious question, are you trolling me right now?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The juggernaut is with Dak. We have seen what he can do with them. The others are an unknown.

What have we seen? What can he do?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I’m laughing at placing the Cowboys and Super Bowl in same thought.

This dysfunctional franchise is so QB dependent it’s pathetic. Without Romo and Dak lucky finds this debacle of a franchise would be 5-11 , 6-10 every year

But isn't that because the invest so heavily on the QB position that it limits them in many other areas?

 

[Diehardblues]

No, we don't. We have to replace a LT, which is key and not cheap and that will likely be a FA. If we sign DAk, then it's probably also a 1st round pick so there is some relief there but you still need a starter at LT so there is cost right there. Gallup isn't signed and he will need to be replaced so there is another FA and more money. We still need to figure out what our backup sito is and before everybody says Dak don't get hurt, we don't need anybody real, don't. That myth has died a hard death, after last season. We basically have two more seasons with Zeke and after that, we need a guy. Dalton Shultz is an FA next year. Williams is an FA next year. That's just on Offense that I am aware of, off the top of my head. Defensively, we are void of talent all over. We need guys at every position group and really, multiple guys because we also have no depth.

Your plan calls for a cap killing deal with little to no chance of success and then, after the poor contract has forced us to let valuable players go, you advocate that we simply start over, three years later, with less talent on the team, is that correct? You, if I am not mistaken, doubt the teams ability to find a QB and develop him, correct? But you advocate a plan in which you not only call for us to do that again, three years later, with less talent, you bank on the idea that we can draft well over the next couple years and find players and also that we can uncover cheap FA talent.

Serious question, are you trolling me right now?

No, but you must remember my opinions are based on our dysfunctional organization and the expectations I have as such. I don’t depend or rely on them to find another QB as good as Dak.

Our awful franchise has been QB dependent since Romo propped us up. The bar has been forever lowered under this regime. Normal football strategy doesn’t apply with our promoters running operations.