The Texas Coast Offense (West Coast + Air Coryell)

[America's Cowboy]

 

[America's Cowboy]

Brian Schottenheimer's Philosophy

 

[jazzcat22]

Recap?
I don't have time to watch 30 minutes of video right now. Maybe later this afternoon.

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

This tells me that nothing has changed. They just repackaged and rebranded the same garbage.

 

[jazzcat22]

This tells me that nothing has changed. They just repackaged and rebranded the same garbage.

So you watched 30 minutes of video in the last 6 minutes since I posted? To arrive at this conclusion nothing has changed?

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

So you watched 30 minutes of video in the last 6 minutes since I posted? To arrive at this conclusion nothing has changed?

Don’t need to. The fact that they are naming it and calling it some amalgamation is proof enough that they spent more time over the name that actually improving the offense or changing it.

 

[jazzcat22]

Don’t need to. The fact that they are naming it and calling it some amalgamation is proof enough that they spent more time over the name that actually improving the offense or changing it.

I can understand that. But I will wait and see the ... on the field .... proof as to if it will improve, and for the most part, if it helps Dak cut down on mistakes. As well as the WR's running better routes.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Don’t need to. The fact that they are naming it and calling it some amalgamation is proof enough that they spent more time over the name that actually improving the offense or changing it.

What?

They changed the name so they obviously didn't do anything else?

Cognitive dissonance is going to be fun for the next few weeks.

 

[CouchCoach]

Dallas isn’t on the Gulf Coast.

They should call it the Bachman Lake Offense.

 

[beware_d-ware]

The run scheme will likely change with Schottenheimer. But every passing scheme in the league relies on the same dozen or so concepts.

Sometimes you get an OC like Jason Garrett who almost seems willfully stupid, or a Joe Lombardi who is too stubborn to adapt his dead-armed Drew Brees offense for a rocket-armed Justin Herbert. But on the whole, most coaches have the same passing plays in their book. I would not expect a lot of changes there.

 

[Omegasupreme]

Some of the details aren’t exactly correct. But some of them are and are extremely indicting of Garrett and Kellen who were trying to use (the only offense they knew) a Coryell offense that required specific player types and especially constant motion, play action, and personnel groupings/formations - that they didn’t have. So why push a system that you really can’t use correctly because you don’t have the parts? Again. It’s all they knew. McCarthy hated Garrett’s playbook. In one of the press conferences following Kellen being let go, he barked, unprovoked, at the press “this is not Jason Garrett’s playbook”. He went onto say that playbooks change over time. So logically Kellen WAS usually Garrett’s playbook and McCarthy was trying to change it. He couldn’t while Kellen was still calling plays. The Coryell scheme is the only scheme Kellen knows. (He was even named after Kellen Winslow).

It starts out like a good idea but the incumbent stays in power and weakens both. Doug Marrone and Nathaniel Hackett locked themselves in a room for days to create a pro version of the Syracuse Coryell/WCO but they failed. Schottenheimer kept the same language of the WCO and put in Coryell plays in order to go in a Coryell direction. Why was he fired if he had all of those stats? Losses, lack of change, adjustment , creativity later in the season. Sound familiar? It’s Garrett and Kellen. It’s the flaw of the Coryell scheme. It sounds so good but without ideal players and especially innovation to get those players optimized, the scheme is Hue Jackson, Cam Cameron, Jack Reilly, Mike Tice, etc.

But the best stat is the Super Bowl. Count the number of teams that had a pure or heavy Coryell influence who won the Super Bowl or even were in the Super Bowl in the last 20 years.

Bruce Arians won with Pittsburgh (largely because of the defense) and Tom Brady modified Arians offense with the Bucs. Now count how often the WCO makes the Super Bowl and wins. And before you start arguing Erhardt-Perkins, the foundation of Brady’s success was the short pass which caused Steve young to comment “the Pats are running a West Coast offense”.

All this to say McCarthy is keeping long passes but making a WCO because that’s what works.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Every single offense in the NFL is a blend of WCO and Coryell. Every single one.

 

[CCBoy]

Play action paired with deep passing efficiency. Schottenheimer is creative and has learned what his weaknesses were.

To open things up, success deep...20 yards is an element that will force defenses to cover the entire field.

For those still paying attention...

The run will be supported by play action passes. When linebackers have to read pass/run they consistently leave shorter pass routes fully open. This in turn opens the lanes for speedy backs with elusive maneuver ability like the runners they now have. Schottenheimer once became too conservative in calling his own plays. McCarthy is the play caller now, and has plenty of experience in both Coryell and West Coast styles.

As to reads by Prescott, he is still a strong quarterback. He does compare favorably to quite a few current and past quarterbacks.

Dak will be assisted by shorter thrown passes and able to make many more passes in the window of 2.5 seconds. The presence of Cooks makes both concepts doable as well as realistic to push possessions down the field.

After watching the film, a smart thing...I'm interested in a close to around a 5,000 passing year for Dak.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Don’t need to. The fact that they are naming it and calling it some amalgamation is proof enough that they spent more time over the name that actually improving the offense or changing it.

Which is a good thing.

 

[doomsday9084]

My understanding is that Moore typically used a straight up zone blocking scheme in the run game. On passes, he used a horizontal flood concept to come up with route combinations. That is to say, multiple receivers running routes at the same depth to try to force defenders at that level to choose who to guard, leaving some wide open.

The Brian S / MM systems will have more movement by the o lineman, cracking back and pulling but still a general zone scheme. On passing downs, its more of a vertical overload where multiple receivers run to one area of the field at varying depths, again forcing defenders to choose whom to guard.

I just hope we see:
- Screen plays that actually work
- A run scheme that opens up holes in the middle with sideways blocking
- Better play action
- Good safety valve routes for Dak so he doesn't have to force the ball or hold it when primary routes aren't there

But yeah, the basic principles of route running, 3,5 and 7 step drops, blocking, etc. don't change much across the league. What matters is how you use these concepts in combination which allows one person's west coast offense to look much different than another's.

 

[McKDaddy]

All this has been around for years. All any good coach \ coordinator has to do is watch film. Find teams that resemble your expected personnel and note what works & when. Why things don't work well in certain situations. They don't have to "invent" anything to run a successful offense. It isn't that hard to copy concepts.

After that they can carve out some variations of plays to keep defenses from being certain what is coming. They should go into camp feeling like the know what plays the team needs to master to get the basics down & hammer them.

 

[FanofJerry]

What about the Atlantic Coast Offense? Or the Northern Border Offense?

 

[CCBoy]

My understanding is that Moore typically used a straight up zone blocking scheme in the run game. On passes, he used a horizontal flood concept to come up with route combinations. That is to say, multiple receivers running routes at the same depth to try to force defenders at that level to choose who to guard, leaving some wide open.

The Brian S / MM systems will have more movement by the o lineman, cracking back and pulling but still a general zone scheme. On passing downs, its more of a vertical overload where multiple receivers run to one area of the field at varying depths, again forcing defenders to choose whom to guard.

I just hope we see:
- Screen plays that actually work
- A run scheme that opens up holes in the middle with sideways blocking
- Better play action
- Good safety valve routes for Dak so he doesn't have to force the ball or hold it when primary routes aren't there

But yeah, the basic principles of route running, 3,5 and 7 step drops, blocking, etc. don't change much across the league. What matters is how you use these concepts in combination which allows one person's west coast offense to look much different than another's.

Defensive movements or lack of which tells Dak if the opponent is in individual coverage or zone. To force pace, there will be lots of Cowboys movements.

 

[CCBoy]

The run scheme will likely change with Schottenheimer. But every passing scheme in the league relies on the same dozen or so concepts.

Sometimes you get an OC like Jason Garrett who almost seems willfully stupid, or a Joe Lombardi who is too stubborn to adapt his dead-armed Drew Brees offense for a rocket-armed Justin Herbert. But on the whole, most coaches have the same passing plays in their book. I would not expect a lot of changes there.

Poor situational adaptability killed Jason Garret and opponents knew what was generally coming and when with Moore.

 

[CCBoy]

What about the Atlantic Coast Offense? Or the Northern Border Offense?

Atlantic Coast is beautiful and lots of fishing...the Northern Border gets colder.