The Tight End Bermuda Triangle

[OmerV]

Don’t care to get into a lengthy discussion. Even in 2023 we were targeting CeeDee a lot. Not satisfied with Ferguson as our number one TE. Had he built off what he did in 2023 I might feel differently but he regressed

You have a double standard my friend. I don't know how you can pretend it was just Ferguson that had a drop off in 2024.

CeeDee didn't have injuries like Ferguson did, and he was down 555 yards, his TD's were cut in half, and his catch % and yards per catch were down significantly.

You can't rationally explain away a dropoff with one and not the other, especially since the other had injury problems. There clearly was a problem with the team that can't be explained by cherry picking individual players you prefer to blame over others.

 

[KJJ]

You have a double standard my friend. I don't know how you can pretend it was just Ferguson that had a drop off in 2024.

CeeDee didn't have injuries like Ferguson did, and he was down 555 yards, his TD's were cut in half, and his catch % and yards per catch were down significantly.

You can't rationally explain away a dropoff with one and not the other, especially since the other had injury problems. There clearly was a problem with the team that can't be explained by cherry picking individual players you prefer to blame over others.

I pointed out CeeDee’s numbers dropping off. The drop in numbers for CeeDee and Ferguson has been explained. You’re dug in and sound like you want to spend a lot of time arguing this. I gave my opinion. Carry on if you wish but I’ve moved on.

 

[OmerV]

Difference is Lamb was still carried the 5th most receptions in the league and had the 8th most receiving yards in the league despite missing a game and fighting through injury for several others. Ceedee Lamb was in the elite category despite the adversity that was the Dallas Cowboys in 2024.

Ferg is still a good player dont get me wront, but I imagine the truth is somewhere in between the 2023 and 2024 results. There were some obvious issues with 2024 as you already mentioned, but his 2023 data was showing some buyer beware signs as well. 16 catches behind the LOS and 50 catches in short depth. Over 75% of his numbers came from taking advantage of the underneath holes. Granted he did that at a very high level, but if you only do one thing well in this league its tough to be a full time starter and not get exposed. I do sense some possible injury round this year, but unless he develops the ability to play vertical he is going to have a limited ceiling and 2023 was probably it.

I think Ferg is sort of in that Blake Jarwin/Dalton Schutz territory where they are good enough to put up numbers if the rest of your offense is good enough to take attention away from them, but you're gonna struggle if they are you're #2 receiving option.

Lamb is one of the true elite's in the game though, and he didn't have injuries like Ferguson. If the standard is that a player isn't a high quality guy unless he is a top 3-4 guy at his position fans can never be satisfied. That's just not a realistic standard to have.

As for the downfield activity in 2023 (again when healthy and with his starting QB), I think you would find Feguson's production is very reasonable. Every TE is way behind Kittle on that front, but even though he was slightly behind a few guys in gains over 20 yards, those are guys that also got more targets. He was ahead of most.

 

[OmerV]

I pointed out CeeDee’s numbers dropping off. The drop in numbers for CeeDee and Ferguson has been explained. You’re dug in and sound like you want to spend a lot of time arguing this. I gave my opinion. Carry on if you wish but I’ve moved on.

Yes, you pointed it out, but acted like it doesn't matter with him, but with Ferguson it does.

 

[KJJ]

Yes, you pointed it out, but acted like it doesn't matter with him, but with Ferguson it does.

It doesn’t matter with CeeDee because he’s a proven player who just earned a huge extension because he’s been consistent. Ferguson can’t afford to regress after one pretty good season on a rookie deal especially with Schoomaker starting to show something. We invested a second round pick on him

 

[thunderpimp91]

Lamb is one of the true elite's in the game though, and he didn't have injuries like Ferguson. If the standard is that a player isn't a high quality guy unless he is a top 3-4 guy at his position fans can never be satisfied. That's just not a realistic standard to have.

As for the downfield activity in 2023 (again when healthy and with his starting QB), I think you would find Feguson's production is very reasonable. Every TE is way behind Kittle on that front, but even though he was slightly behind a few guys in gains over 20 yards, those are guys that also got more targets. He was ahead of most.

Yeah and I'm not trying to bash Ferg, I like the guy, I just think the TE position overall has more depth to it than I can ever remember so its easier to replace a guy like Ferg. With Ferg it really isnt just the 20+ yarders either, not many TEs rack those up, but its the 10-20 yarders too. 66 of his catches in 2023 were 9 yards or less, 16 of those behind the LOS. Average depth on those throws <10 yards was only 2.8 yards. Now he is really good in those areas, but I wouldnt hesitate to upgrade over a player that one dimensional if you have the opportunity. It also probably doesnt make sense to pay a guy like that once their contract is up either. I think a number of TEs in the league could replicate his 81/850/8 stat line with how heavily he was targeted that year.

 

[RonWashington]

The TEs are not an issue. They can play well enough.

Oh. Zero TD’s by your starter and a team that settles for FG’s with red zone struggles .
I’m hoping all three play much better this season .

 

[gtb1943]

we have limited draft capital and a Front Office that refuses to get even middle quality FA's
So we cannot AFFORD to use any of it on a TE this season.

 

[OmerV]

Yeah and I'm not trying to bash Ferg, I like the guy, I just think the TE position overall has more depth to it than I can ever remember so its easier to replace a guy like Ferg. With Ferg it really isnt just the 20+ yarders either, not many TEs rack those up, but its the 10-20 yarders too. 66 of his catches in 2023 were 9 yards or less, 16 of those behind the LOS. Average depth on those throws <10 yards was only 2.8 yards. Now he is really good in those areas, but I wouldnt hesitate to upgrade over a player that one dimensional if you have the opportunity. It also probably doesnt make sense to pay a guy like that once their contract is up either. I think a number of TEs in the league could replicate his 81/850/8 stat line with how heavily he was targeted that year.

Would love to see the stats on other TEs. Not many average more yards per catch than Ferguson's 10.7 in 2023, so my guess is his stats aren't particularly low unless comparing to the small few at the top tier at the position.

That said, of course it's not impossible to replace a TE like Ferg with someone comparable, but replacing him with someone notably better is something different. Kittle level players don't grow on trees. And we already have Ferguson, and are paying him, so why are we worrying about it? Clearly we have players that are a much bigger problem on the O-Line & D-Line to focus on. RB is a concern as well.