The Two NTs of Boston College

[Alexander]

You're right we don't need a Ratliff clone however, we do need someone that will have to be doubled team being slow off the snap only move being the bull rush I highly doubt he will demand the double teams that we would want him to.

And once again, the 40 time does not measure how fast or slow he is off the snap.

 

[Rampage]

just another example of putting too much stock into the most overrated workout for the NFL draft. now people are using the 40 time to measure a 330 pound NT. when will it end?:bang2:

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Hardly. BC ran quite a few zone blitzes and he even had to operate in space.

But look at that 40 time. He just can't play.

the scouting reports say he can't split blocks and I watched him in the Senior Bowl, and he got 0 penetration

I'm not saying Brace can't play, but he's one-dimensional and not worth being taken so high

now if this were Bill Parcells' 3-4, where Ratliff probably wouldn't be our starting NT, then I would like the pick

 

[Alexander]

he was probably too slow getting off the blocks too

the interest in Brace is called doing your due dilligence

they probably all want to see if Brace can do more than just take up space, which he can't

crimeny, Raji weighs 7 more lbs. and did his in under 5.15

You do know that Raji has a different build entirely and played under tackle, right?

I am guessing by this nonsense you are saying here that you don't.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

And once again, the 40 time does not measure how fast or slow he is off the snap.

based on his 40 times do you expect him to show better numbers in the other drills? I don't i don't think anything will be reasonable to assume that he has a quick first step or that he will be a good pick.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

based on his 40 times do you expect him to show better numbers in the other drills? I don't i don't think anything will be reasonable to assume that he has a quick first step or that he will be a good pick.

Brace is not the athlete Raji or Hill are, but his other numbers will be closer.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

You do know that Raji has a different build entirely and played under tackle, right?

I am guessing by this nonsense you are saying here that you don't.

can you guess that I would choose to take Raji on the 1st day, and not Brace?

he's big, he can move, and he can contain his gap

 

[Alexander]

the scouting reports say he can't split blocks

From Scott Wright

Strengths:
Excellent size and bulk...Very quick off the snap...Great strength...Is stout at the point of attack...Does a terrific job against the run...Gets a good push up the middle...Will collapse the pocket...A powerful tackler...Shows the ability to shoot gaps and penetrate at times...Nice instincts / awareness...Lots of experience...Improving and has upside.

and I watched him in the Senior Bowl, and he got 0 penetration

And it is very possible the vanilla defenses allowed at the Senior Bowl weren't showcasing much that he can do. I watched the practices and he was doing very very well against a trio of top centers all week.

I'm not saying Brace can't play, but he's one-dimensional and not worth being taken so high

So high? What is so high? The second round?

now if this were Bill Parcells' 3-4, where Ratliff probably wouldn't be our starting NT, then I would like the pick

Phillips' nose tackles can play one and two gap. He's not married to either. He's won with both. We aren't doing "due dilligence". There is a reason we (along with a host of 3-4 teams) have been very interested.

You just got finished saying you've been down on him a while and he's slow and what not, now you are saying you'd like the pick if we ran Parcells 3-4. Which is it?

 

[Alexander]

can you guess that I would choose to take Raji on the 1st day, and not Brace?

he's big, he can move, and he can contain his gap

One is a top ten pick. One's not.

One's really an under tackle. One's a nose tackle.

Apples and oranges.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

From Scott Wright

Strengths:
Excellent size and bulk...Very quick off the snap...Great strength...Is stout at the point of attack...Does a terrific job against the run...Gets a good push up the middle...Will collapse the pocket...A powerful tackler...Shows the ability to shoot gaps and penetrate at times...Nice instincts / awareness...Lots of experience...Improving and has upside.



And it is very possible the vanilla defenses allowed at the Senior Bowl weren't showcasing much that he can do. I watched the practices and he was doing very very well against a trio of top centers all week.



So high? What is so high? The second round?



Phillips' nose tackles can play one and two gap. He's not married to either. He's won with both. We aren't doing "due dilligence". There is a reason we (along with a host of 3-4 teams) have been very interested.

You just got finished saying you've been down on him a while and he's slow and what not, now you are saying you'd like the pick if we ran Parcells 3-4. Which is it?

Parcell wanted our line man to be big slow and take on extra blockers pretty much what Brace would do.

 

[Alexander]

based on his 40 times do you expect him to show better numbers in the other drills?

It has no relation. I really could care less what 40 time a lineman runs. He could run a five flat. If he can produce on the field against top competition and do the things I wanted, I take him. If he has the mentality I want from the position, I take him. You can have the workout wonder from Stillman.

I don't i don't think anything will be reasonable to assume that he has a quick first step or that he will be a good pick.

So per your logic---bad workout = bad pick.

At least I know what mentality I am dealing with here.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

From Scott Wright

Strengths:
Excellent size and bulk...Very quick off the snap...Great strength...Is stout at the point of attack...Does a terrific job against the run...Gets a good push up the middle...Will collapse the pocket...A powerful tackler...Shows the ability to shoot gaps and penetrate at times...Nice instincts / awareness...Lots of experience...Improving and has upside.

from NFLDraftScout


Positives: Square-framed, naturally large man. … Surprising initial quickness off the snap to disrupt the play before it has a chance to begin. … Good lateral quickness to slide down the line. … Good use of hands to slap away the blockers' attempts to control him. … Good overall strength, especially in his lower body, to hold up at the point. … Can anchor against the double-team and flashes the ability to split. … Able to close if given a free lane. … Recognizes the action quickly and can slide off the block onto the runner as he goes by. … Versatile defender capable of projecting as a zero-, one- or three-technique at the next level. Negatives: Only "phone booth" quickness. … Requires a free lane to close on the quarterback and isn't going to provide significant interior pass rush. … Marginal effort and ability in pursuit. … Flanked by a better prospect in Raji and often faces only one blocker. … Struggled with a recurring back injury in 2008. … Concern over back injury only heightened considering his heavy build and potential to allow his weight to get out of control.

And it is very possible the vanilla defenses allowed at the Senior Bowl weren't showcasing much that he can do. I watched the practices and he was doing very very well against a trio of top centers all week.

even vanilla defenses ask their DTs to penetrate into the backfield

So high? What is so high? The second round?

the 2nd round is generally considered a high round

Phillips' nose tackles can play one and two gap. He's not married to either. He's won with both. We aren't doing "due dilligence". There is a reason we (along with a host of 3-4 teams) have been very interested.

he's not going to change the whole D because of Ron Brace

You just got finished saying you've been down on him a while and he's slow and what not, now you are saying you'd like the pick if we ran Parcells 3-4. Which is it?

I've been down on him because we don't run a Parcells' D where it requires a blocker magnet at NT

I don't see how my position on him has been back and forth

 

[Bob Sacamano]

One is a top ten pick. One's not.

One's really an under tackle. One's a nose tackle.

Apples and oranges.

and Ratliff was an under tackle at Auburn

your point?

both Raji and Brace would be NTs in the 3-4

 

[DaBoys4Life]

It has no relation. I really could care less what 40 time a lineman runs. He could run a five flat. If he can produce on the field against top competition and do the things I wanted, I take him. If he has the mentality I want from the position, I take him. You can have the workout wonder from Stillman.



So per your logic---bad workout = bad pick.

At least I know what mentality I am dealing with here.

Brace isn't having a bad combine he's just slow and I think that his 40 time leads me to believe the knocks about him on the senior bowl. I think it's unfair of you to say that Hill is a work out wonder considering we don't even know his bench press results however, he's an athlete that produce and didn't have an All-American next to him....

 

[SLATEmosphere]

OMGGGG are you guys really bashing Brace because he can't run a 40 time fast!? Have you seen what position he plays and how he plays it? Look up Jamal Williams 40 time...look up Pat Williams 40 time..get real guys. Brace is a space eating 3-4 NT that takes on blocks. He's not running down the field to catch Chris Johnson. Brace is the 2nd best NT in this draft behind Raji and exactly what we need at the position.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

OMGGGG are you guys really bashing Brace because he can't run a 40 time fast!? Have you seen what position he plays and how he plays it? Look up Jamal Williams 40 time...look up Pat Williams 40 time..get real guys. Brace is a space eating 3-4 NT that takes on blocks. He's not running down the field to catch Chris Johnson. Brace is the 2nd best NT in this draft behind Raji and exactly what we need at the position.

I don't know about you, but I'm not trying to draft based on need

even if he ran a 4.15, I still wouldn't want him

 

[SLATEmosphere]

I don't know about you, but I'm not trying to draft based on need

even if he ran a 4.15, I still wouldn't want him

I hate to break it to you but Brace is on the Cowboys radar, so if they have him high on thier board and he's still there you can bet we are getting him.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I hate to break it to you but Brace is on the Cowboys radar, so if they have him high on there board and he's still there you can bet we are getting him.

they've talked to a slew of 2nd round prospects

jeez, what an overrated prospect if I ever seen one, the dude is a lump on a log, yet people are salivating over him

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Just got home to see the NFLN coverage, and the DL are running 40s. I can't believe how fat Raji is. And not big boned, not a little overweight, but FAT.

That would actually be a red flag for me. Most of these big guys are actually pretty lean and athletic looking for their size, but not Raji. I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be another talented guy who eats his way out of a great career.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Just got home to see the NFLN coverage, and the DL are running 40s. I can't believe how fat Raji is. And not big boned, not a little overweight, but FAT.

That would actually be a red flag for me. Most of these big guys are actually pretty lean and athletic looking for their size, but not Raji. I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be another talented guy who eats his way out of a great career.

He looks fat to you yet he still ran a faster time than Brace.....