The Value vs Worth Conundrum

[CouchCoach]

Let me say that I am one of the most vocal critics of the contracts these people have done. Specifically, Lawrence, Elliott, Cooper and Smith and if I was opposed to those, should I not be also opposed to Prescott's landmark deal?

It is easy to be critical when I am not the one weighing a player's value on the market to his worth to his team. It is all about worth.

It's easy to take shots at 21M a year for Lawrence and then double down by holding sacks as his worth and call that a bad deal. But then I went back and watched the player and he was giving everything he had to give and the opposition knew he was the only one that had to worry about. A rarely blitzing team puts additional pressure on it's best pass rusher. No need for him to back up to a paycheck.

Elliott holding out with 2 years left was unheard of but that didn't happen until they used that 5th year option on him and then it immediately happened and what were the options for the team? This was a run team with a top 5 RB. They workhorsed him and he knew his days as an elite RB were numbered. Demarco Murray never ran again like he did in his last season as a Cowboy. This is the shortest shelf life in the NFL.

Someone tells the owner that they can go into the season without a #1WR since they just cut theirs and he buys that. Whoever that was was dead wrong. Then he trades for Cooper and sees the difference almost immediately, these two guys weren't meant to play together. They make each other better.

Smith I won't get into because that one still puzzles me but I am hopeful Quinn is what he needs but I am doubtful that he is what they need at MLB. At any price.

So, we come to the QB and many a discussion was had here about his value on the open market, what would another team pay but only one team knew his worth. He was worth more to the Cowboys than what any other team was willing to pay and maybe they didn't use the non exclusive because they were concerned about what he might get in an offer and they'd have to match that or lose him and losing him was unacceptable.

Worth is established by the player to his team while value is estimated in the open market. Only one team knows a player's true worth.

Is Dak Prescott's value on the open market 40M a year? I don't know but I do strongly believe his worth is 40M a year to his team. And particularly to this owner that likes to get next to his players as he did Romo, Witten and Dez until that went south. He likes Dak, he wants Dak to be his QB and losing him was so unacceptable that he was worth whatever he had to pay to keep him.

I see nothing wrong in this and I do think I've been a little trigger happy when it comes to some of these contracts because I wasn't faced with a season without these players. I didn't want to pay Lawrence 21M, Elliott 15M or Cooper 20M but I also didn't have a workable option.

You can estimate value and having it but worth comes with having something and considering being without it. I do not think the owner wanted to pay these amounts but when considering the alternatives, it was well worth it.

The bottom line on contracts is the more a team has in the top 10, the better they have to be a drafting affordable players. The problem really isn't contracts or even the cap, it is all of the 1st contract players, are they good enough? So, I will stop dogging them on these contracts and assume they had no better options. Double so, that leaves only one thing to dog them on. But that's a dog for a different day.

 

[Creeper]

Let me say that I am one of the most vocal critics of the contracts these people have done. Specifically, Lawrence, Elliott, Cooper and Smith and if I was opposed to those, should I not be also opposed to Prescott's landmark deal?

It is easy to be critical when I am not the one weighing a player's value on the market to his worth to his team. It is all about worth.

It's easy to take shots at 21M a year for Lawrence and then double down by holding sacks as his worth and call that a bad deal. But then I went back and watched the player and he was giving everything he had to give and the opposition knew he was the only one that had to worry about. A rarely blitzing team puts additional pressure on it's best pass rusher. No need for him to back up to a paycheck.

Elliott holding out with 2 years left was unheard of but that didn't happen until they used that 5th year option on him and then it immediately happened and what were the options for the team? This was a run team with a top 5 RB. They workhorsed him and he knew his days as an elite RB were numbered. Demarco Murray never ran again like he did in his last season as a Cowboy. This is the shortest shelf life in the NFL.

Someone tells the owner that they can go into the season without a #1WR since they just cut theirs and he buys that. Whoever that was was dead wrong. Then he trades for Cooper and sees the difference almost immediately, these two guys weren't meant to play together. They make each other better.

Smith I won't get into because that one still puzzles me but I am hopeful Quinn is what he needs but I am doubtful that he is what they need at MLB. At any price.

So, we come to the QB and many a discussion was had here about his value on the open market, what would another team pay but only one team knew his worth. He was worth more to the Cowboys than what any other team was willing to pay and maybe they didn't use the non exclusive because they were concerned about what he might get in an offer and they'd have to match that or lose him and losing him was unacceptable.

Worth is established by the player to his team while value is estimated in the open market. Only one team knows a player's true worth.

Is Dak Prescott's value on the open market 40M a year? I don't know but I do strongly believe his worth is 40M a year to his team. And particularly to this owner that likes to get next to his players as he did Romo, Witten and Dez until that went south. He likes Dak, he wants Dak to be his QB and losing him was so unacceptable that he was worth whatever he had to pay to keep him.

I see nothing wrong in this and I do think I've been a little trigger happy when it comes to some of these contracts because I wasn't faced with a season without these players. I didn't want to pay Lawrence 21M, Elliott 15M or Cooper 20M but I also didn't have a workable option.

You can estimate value and having it but worth comes with having something and considering being without it. I do not think the owner wanted to pay these amounts but when considering the alternatives, it was well worth it.

The bottom line on contracts is the more a team has in the top 10, the better they have to be a drafting affordable players. The problem really isn't contracts or even the cap, it is all of the 1st contract players, are they good enough? So, I will stop dogging them on these contracts and assume they had no better options. Double so, that leaves only one thing to dog them on. But that's a dog for a different day.

Worth is what someone worries about when they cannot fathom the complexities of building a 53 man roster. The guy who understands the complexities of a building a 53 man roster with a fixed amount to spend focuses on value.

What has more potential, Demarcus Lawrence or a mix 11 other players on defense?

This is overly simplified, of course, but it is how envision the problem. Lawrence is a good player, not a great player. He gets paid like a great player. The value is not there. Would it have been wiser to spend $16 million on another DE, and use the other $5 million to help sign a DT to make the DE a better value? Not a rhetorical question.

 

[Bobhaze]

I think by the time the new TV deal is hammered out, the $40 mil a year Dak deal is going to be considered decent value because the cap is going to go way up in the near future.

Seems to me that one big reason the Jones boys decided to make the Dak deal they did is because they know the salary cap is about to balloon which will provide much more room than they currently have. Not to mention if Dak had played well on another tag, his price would only increase. Plus year one of this deal only has a $22 mil cap hit compared to the $31 mil hit last year when Dak was tagged.

It’s all Monopoly money to us fans I guess. But the more I looked at everything, this wasn’t as much a cap slam or financial hamstring as many fans think.

 

[GMO415]

Tanehill who took his team to back to back playoff years; one to the AFCCG, only got a $23 million something contract. Did he deserve more?

Dak has been 1-3 in playoff games.

 

[JoeKing]

If Dak gets us to a couple of SBs, then he's worth it.

 

[Bobhaze]

Tanehill who took his team to back to back playoff years; one to the AFCCG, only got a $23 million something contract. Did he deserve more?

Dak has been 1-3 in playoff games.

To be accurate, Dak’s 1-2. He lost 1 in 2016, won one and lost one in 2018. But I get your drift.

If Dak gets us to a couple of SBs, then he's worth it.

I would even say if he at least wins a couple of divisional playoff games, it would be an upgrade. Romo never did. In fact, Troy was the last Cowboys QB that won a divisional playoff game in 1995. Ouch.

 

[fivetwos]

Lawrence is a very, very good defensive end.

Gets paid like a sack guy and doesn't put up those numbers.

Tell you what though... id like to see him and Gregory get some extensive time together when there isn't a gaping hole in the middle of the run defense.

This was a big part of the end 2018 when the defense was playing at a high level.

I also think Lawrence was hampered as much as anyone in Nolans scheme. Didn't look comfortable standing up as much as he did

 

[JoeKing]

To be accurate, Dak’s 1-2. He lost 1 in 2016, won one and lost one in 2018. But I get your drift.

I would even say if he at least wins a couple of divisional playoff games, it would be an upgrade. Romo never did. In fact, Troy was the last Cowboys QB that won a divisional playoff game in 1995. Ouch.

A couple of divisional playoffs wins would be an upgrade but I don't think we settle for just that for Dak's deal. We need to get more out of it. Danny White didn't secure the hearts and minds of Cowboys fans when he led them to three consecutive NFCC games and in the long run, the same won't endear Dak to fans that expect high results from this deal. No sir, he will need to deliver SB titles.

 

[Whyjerry]

Let me say that I am one of the most vocal critics of the contracts these people have done. Specifically, Lawrence, Elliott, Cooper and Smith and if I was opposed to those, should I not be also opposed to Prescott's landmark deal?

It is easy to be critical when I am not the one weighing a player's value on the market to his worth to his team. It is all about worth.

It's easy to take shots at 21M a year for Lawrence and then double down by holding sacks as his worth and call that a bad deal. But then I went back and watched the player and he was giving everything he had to give and the opposition knew he was the only one that had to worry about. A rarely blitzing team puts additional pressure on it's best pass rusher. No need for him to back up to a paycheck.

Elliott holding out with 2 years left was unheard of but that didn't happen until they used that 5th year option on him and then it immediately happened and what were the options for the team? This was a run team with a top 5 RB. They workhorsed him and he knew his days as an elite RB were numbered. Demarco Murray never ran again like he did in his last season as a Cowboy. This is the shortest shelf life in the NFL.

Someone tells the owner that they can go into the season without a #1WR since they just cut theirs and he buys that. Whoever that was was dead wrong. Then he trades for Cooper and sees the difference almost immediately, these two guys weren't meant to play together. They make each other better.

Smith I won't get into because that one still puzzles me but I am hopeful Quinn is what he needs but I am doubtful that he is what they need at MLB. At any price.

So, we come to the QB and many a discussion was had here about his value on the open market, what would another team pay but only one team knew his worth. He was worth more to the Cowboys than what any other team was willing to pay and maybe they didn't use the non exclusive because they were concerned about what he might get in an offer and they'd have to match that or lose him and losing him was unacceptable.

Worth is established by the player to his team while value is estimated in the open market. Only one team knows a player's true worth.

Is Dak Prescott's value on the open market 40M a year? I don't know but I do strongly believe his worth is 40M a year to his team. And particularly to this owner that likes to get next to his players as he did Romo, Witten and Dez until that went south. He likes Dak, he wants Dak to be his QB and losing him was so unacceptable that he was worth whatever he had to pay to keep him.

I see nothing wrong in this and I do think I've been a little trigger happy when it comes to some of these contracts because I wasn't faced with a season without these players. I didn't want to pay Lawrence 21M, Elliott 15M or Cooper 20M but I also didn't have a workable option.

You can estimate value and having it but worth comes with having something and considering being without it. I do not think the owner wanted to pay these amounts but when considering the alternatives, it was well worth it.

The bottom line on contracts is the more a team has in the top 10, the better they have to be a drafting affordable players. The problem really isn't contracts or even the cap, it is all of the 1st contract players, are they good enough? So, I will stop dogging them on these contracts and assume they had no better options. Double so, that leaves only one thing to dog them on. But that's a dog for a different day.

It is the ultimate “conundrum”. Dallas has more bad contracts than any team in the league in my opinion.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Tanehill who took his team to back to back playoff years; one to the AFCCG, only got a $23 million something contract. Did he deserve more?

Dak has been 1-3 in playoff games.

Tannehil did nothing for the Dolphins because the team around him sucked. They basically dumped him.

All of a sudden he gets plopped onto a team with all the pieces around him and instantly he is winning and looks incredible. I think most of you guys dont truly understand the dynamics of the QB position and relationship between the players around the QB and his ability to help his team win games.

As soon as someone starts relating team success of failure to one single player, its a clear indication that they either have an agenda or they dont understand the game.

 

[CowboyRoy]

It is the ultimate “conundrum”. Dallas has more bad contracts than any team in the league in my opinion.

Zeke and Jaylon are the worst ones. The rest are market contracts. Every team has them.

You could also argue that Martin, Collins, Smith, and Frederick were all good contracts.

Jerry screwed up the most when he resigned Zeke. With another 15 million to spend, things are looking much better right now. Jaylon contract looked good when it was signed. He just got exposed. So the Cowboys need to move on from him. Problem is they wont.

 

[Rockport]

Let me say that I am one of the most vocal critics of the contracts these people have done. Specifically, Lawrence, Elliott, Cooper and Smith and if I was opposed to those, should I not be also opposed to Prescott's landmark deal?

It is easy to be critical when I am not the one weighing a player's value on the market to his worth to his team. It is all about worth.

It's easy to take shots at 21M a year for Lawrence and then double down by holding sacks as his worth and call that a bad deal. But then I went back and watched the player and he was giving everything he had to give and the opposition knew he was the only one that had to worry about. A rarely blitzing team puts additional pressure on it's best pass rusher. No need for him to back up to a paycheck.

Elliott holding out with 2 years left was unheard of but that didn't happen until they used that 5th year option on him and then it immediately happened and what were the options for the team? This was a run team with a top 5 RB. They workhorsed him and he knew his days as an elite RB were numbered. Demarco Murray never ran again like he did in his last season as a Cowboy. This is the shortest shelf life in the NFL.

Someone tells the owner that they can go into the season without a #1WR since they just cut theirs and he buys that. Whoever that was was dead wrong. Then he trades for Cooper and sees the difference almost immediately, these two guys weren't meant to play together. They make each other better.

Smith I won't get into because that one still puzzles me but I am hopeful Quinn is what he needs but I am doubtful that he is what they need at MLB. At any price.

So, we come to the QB and many a discussion was had here about his value on the open market, what would another team pay but only one team knew his worth. He was worth more to the Cowboys than what any other team was willing to pay and maybe they didn't use the non exclusive because they were concerned about what he might get in an offer and they'd have to match that or lose him and losing him was unacceptable.

Worth is established by the player to his team while value is estimated in the open market. Only one team knows a player's true worth.

Is Dak Prescott's value on the open market 40M a year? I don't know but I do strongly believe his worth is 40M a year to his team. And particularly to this owner that likes to get next to his players as he did Romo, Witten and Dez until that went south. He likes Dak, he wants Dak to be his QB and losing him was so unacceptable that he was worth whatever he had to pay to keep him.

I see nothing wrong in this and I do think I've been a little trigger happy when it comes to some of these contracts because I wasn't faced with a season without these players. I didn't want to pay Lawrence 21M, Elliott 15M or Cooper 20M but I also didn't have a workable option.

You can estimate value and having it but worth comes with having something and considering being without it. I do not think the owner wanted to pay these amounts but when considering the alternatives, it was well worth it.

The bottom line on contracts is the more a team has in the top 10, the better they have to be a drafting affordable players. The problem really isn't contracts or even the cap, it is all of the 1st contract players, are they good enough? So, I will stop dogging them on these contracts and assume they had no better options. Double so, that leaves only one thing to dog them on. But that's a dog for a different day.

Haters gonna hate. Both the Cowboys and Chiefs highest paid players are the same by position. Chew on that.

 

[Flamma]

In my opinion, and this is whether I like it or not, players are paid in accordance to how easily they can be replaced. Which is why QBs are up front, and punters, kickers, and running backs take a back seat.

 

[Diehardblues]

I’m a huge supporter of athletic entertainers aka football players optimizing their value in the NFL multi billion dollar business.

 

[PhillyCowboysFan]

Tannehil did nothing for the Dolphins because the team around him sucked. They basically dumped him.

All of a sudden he gets plopped onto a team with all the pieces around him and instantly he is winning and looks incredible. I think most of you guys dont truly understand the dynamics of the QB position and relationship between the players around the QB and his ability to help his team win games.

As soon as someone starts relating team success of failure to one single player, its a clear indication that they either have an agenda or they dont understand the game.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Tannehill was 8 for 15 with a QBR of 61 and had 72 yards passing in the playoff game they won. He did everything to loss that game. The next game he had a very good game but the lost. I hate the QB wins/loses comparisons.

 

[Diehardblues]

A couple of divisional playoffs wins would be an upgrade but I don't think we settle for just that for Dak's deal. We need to get more out of it. Danny White didn't secure the hearts and minds of Cowboys fans when he led them to three consecutive NFCC games and in the long run, the same won't endear Dak to fans that expect high results from this deal. No sir, he will need to deliver SB titles.

Which is really an unrealistic expectation. Because the Cowboys success is dependent on so much more than just our QB. But that’s how many casual fans make their evaluations.

 

[Diehardblues]

Tannehil did nothing for the Dolphins because the team around him sucked. They basically dumped him.

All of a sudden he gets plopped onto a team with all the pieces around him and instantly he is winning and looks incredible. I think most of you guys dont truly understand the dynamics of the QB position and relationship between the players around the QB and his ability to help his team win games.

As soon as someone starts relating team success of failure to one single player, its a clear indication that they either have an agenda or they dont understand the game.

There’s many more examples out there from Steve Young, Doug Williams to Jim Plunkett who went to better teams and situations and begun winning.

 

[CowboyRoy]

There’s many more examples out there from Steve Young, Doug Williams to Jim Plunkett who went to better teams and situations and begun winning.

Big issue in the NFC coming up is Stafford on the Rams. People are going to find out how good Stafford really is.

If Wentz cant win for the Colts he cant win anywhere.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

What someone is "worth" can be looked at a variety of ways.

The simply answer is they're "worth" what someone will pay for them. Is a $300,000 Ferrari "worth" it? Well they sell all they can make, in that sense yes it is.

But Dak's "worth" can also be evaluated using the same analogy as the cars, you can spend $100,000 or so on a new mid-engine Corvette and get essentially the same performance as the $300,000 Ferrari. So in that sense no, the Ferrari's not "worth" the price.

Jerry gave Dak a contract, in simple terms, that averages $40 mil a year. It's signed, can't go back. So again in the simple sense, yes Dak's "worth" it. Now if Dak doesn't win a least one Super Bowl during the term of the contract, then the more complex answer is that no, he wasn't "worth" it.

The great thing about the contract is that we will have an answer to the second situation, one way or the other....

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Big issue in the NFC coming up is Stafford on the Rams. People are going to find out how good Stafford really is.

If Wentz cant win for the Colts he cant win anywhere.

And they can also find out Stafford isn't that good and Wentz is.

Speaking for the casual fan, of course. Much more to winning that just the quarterback who often gets too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses...