The Wulf Den: Draft Primer

[burmafrd]

Yup, and it was Parcells who made the call, saying that the dropoff in talent from the first round guys to Julius wasn't that big. Guess that's another time when old Bill didn't know what he was talking about.

Well he was certainly not alone in that judgement. Or Jackson would not have lasted that long.

 

[burmafrd]

No, YOU make that trade and don't look back. I was screaming at the TV, convinced that there had been some mistake. I learned to get behind the move because there was no way for it to be undone, but I didn't like it then, and nothing has happened since to make me change my mind.

I'm not looking back and saying in retrospect that it was a bad decision...I said it was a bad decision at the time. That's how much I believed in Steven Jackson. My statement in my article following the draft (back on the Dallas Cowboys Central forums) was something like this: "Julius Jones had better be really good, and that first-rounder next year better be a really high pick, or the Cowboys are going to regret passing on Steven Jackson for the next ten years." The fact that I've been proven right over time is a side note, to me.

And you would still be wrong. The Bills had a fluke season and that was our bad luck. They were not that good again from that point on. Had they performed as expected we had a top 10 pick from them. If you think you can get that; and you really do not have a player you really want at that point, you make that trade every time. All this hype about Jackson is hindsight or he would not have been passed up by so many teams.

 

[Wulfman]

Well he was certainly not alone in that judgement. Or Jackson would not have lasted that long.

No, he wasn't alone. There were a lot of people who didn't rate Jackson that highly.

But I had Jackson as the #12 player on my board, so I was pounding the table for him, no matter what deal they were offered. You can call that hindsight, if you want, and it's certainly true that the trade COULD HAVE turned out better than it did. But that, too, is on Parcells. Heck, he wanted to take Spears with their first 1st rounder the following year instead of Demarcus, and fortunately got talked out of it.

Sometimes you have to just stick and pick for a good player. As was proven, sometimes the bird in the hand IS worth two in the bush.

 

[visionary]

Another way of looking at the trade - if you don't have a GM and scouts competent enough to draft quality players, it doesn't really matter which way it works out. If we stay at that spot, we likely take Kevin Jones. We traded, and ended up with a bunch of average. A team that knows how to find players will "win" either side of a trade.

this is the point that will go largely ignored

the reality is that parcells was a shell of his former self when he came to dallas to collect a paycheck BUT, even then,

the value parcells brought was not in isolated picks or trades that were made during his tenure but that he developed foundational systems that this franchise had lacked for years and helped reduce the influence of the decision-maker least knowledgeable about talent and his cronies (JJ for the unwashed) over the talent acquisition process

no matter what you think about parcells and no matter who you give credit to for specific picks, the reality is that this franchise is even remotely competitive (even today years after BP left) in large part becasue of his influence on the franchise and the players that were brought in or developed during his tenure

and no amount of hand wringing or revisionist history will change that

just imagine for a second of parcells had not come here when he did... now that is a nightmare scenario

 

[Wulfman]

this is the point that will go largely ignored

the reality is that parcells was a shell of his former self when he came to dallas to collect a paycheck BUT, even then,

the value parcells brought was not in isolated picks or trades that were made during his tenure but that he developed foundational systems that this franchise had lacked for years and helped reduce the influence of the decision-maker least knowledgeable about talent and his cronies (JJ for the unwashed) over the talent acquisition process

no matter what you think about parcells and no matter who you give credit to for specific picks, the reality is that this franchise is even remotely competitive (even today years after BP left) in large part becasue of his influence on the franchise and the players that were brought in or developed during his tenure

and no amount of hand wringing or revisionist history will change that

just imagine for a second of parcells had not come here when he did... now that is a nightmare scenario

Since when is it revisionist history to state the facts? I must have missed the memo.

I'm not saying Bill didn't add anything, because he certainly did. But he gets a whole lot of props for his personnel moves, and the reality is that a number of them didn't pan out. I can appreciate what he gave the Cowboys, but St. Bill is NOT getting a free pass.

 

[visionary]

Since when is it revisionist history to state the facts? I must have missed the memo.

I'm not saying Bill didn't add anything, because he certainly did. But he gets a whole lot of props for his personnel moves, and the reality is that a number of them didn't pan out. I can appreciate what he gave the Cowboys, but St. Bill is NOT getting a free pass.

Wulfman, i agree with most of the points you made
my post was not directed specifically at you just stating my opinion

BP had his flaws and was not the BP of old (and i started my post with this fact) but cowboy fans way under-rate BPs influence on the franchise as a whole IMO

IMO BP should get props for many of his personel moves, the reality is that a number of them will not pan out no matter who is picking BUT look at the cornerstones of this franchise even today.. most of them were brought in during BPs tenure

the point is that he took over a scrap heap and had to do a major overhaul in how the franchise was run and the talent acquisition process just as much as he had to coach the team

again, this is not an attack at you, i like your posts for their insight

this is just my opinion as a fan having lived through the futility of the last 17 years

 

[Wulfman]

Wulfman, i agree with most of the points you made
my post was not directed specifically at you just stating my opinion

BP had his flaws and was not the BP of old (and i started my post with this fact) but cowboy fans way under-rate BPs influence on the franchise as a whole IMO

IMO BP should get props for many of his personel moves, the reality is that a number of them will not pan out no matter who is picking BUT look at the cornerstones of this franchise even today.. most of them were brought in during BPs tenure

the point is that he took over a scrap heap and had to do a major overhaul in how the franchise was run and the talent acquisition process just as much as he had to coach the team

again, this is not an attack at you, i like your posts for their insight

this is just my opinion as a fan having lived through the futility of the last 17 years

No problem with any of that, Visionary. I appreciated Bill's time with the Cowboys, and it was obvious to me that it was the most organization and discipline they had shown since Jimmy left. But just as a lot of fans don't appreciate all that Bill gave to the Cowboys, there are those who wear rose-colored glasses and act as if he never made a mistake. I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle.

As for that particular deal, the only reason I mentioned it at all was as an example of what can happen in a trade down when you believe there's not a significant difference in talent level from the first round to the second, and see all of the "potential" in extra picks.

I fully expect the Cowboys to be working the phones tonight when they go on the clock, especially if there's not someone they really want available to them at #18. They may well get one of these kinds of opportunities and, if they do, they may take it again. I would just like to exercise some caution. Extra picks always sound so good, but they have to be sure of what they're likely to get with those picks before they trade away from a good (and more highly rated) player.

 

[visionary]

But just as a lot of fans don't appreciate all that Bill gave to the Cowboys, there are those who wear rose-colored glasses and act as if he never made a mistake. I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle.

.

i agree with this

in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king

and we have been living in blindness for almost 2 decades

 

[AllProRico]

If we had a chance to land Mike Gillislee in the 5th round I would be all over it! I think this kid has "it"

This is the guy that I want us to draft. The fact that they have him as a 4th/5th round guy baffles me but then again i'm not a scout so there is that

 

[CyberB0b]

Nice thread. Thanks for taking the time to post it.