This aint the same O

[LatinMind]

I don't think you can blame the defense on the offense. Each unit has a specific job. The defense clearly isn't doing their job. They're putting together one of the worst showings in the history of the NFL. But, yes, the offense has done them no favors by having a 3-and-out on 42% of drives. But that doesn't excuse the defense. This thread is about scapegoats. Saying the offense is hurting the defense is a contradiction to the meaning of this thread, since that would be using the offense as a scapegoat for the awful defensive performance. But I've been saying all year that the offense is underachieving. I think the biggest evidence is the fact that Dez doesn't seem to be the #1 option on passing plays. That and the fact that we either don't run the ball or abandon the run when it seems to be working. I think the offense's problem is a matter of scheme. The defense's problem is a whole mix of things.

No as ive stated in the opening portion thatthe DEf has done itself no favors because it cant stop anybody. But the OFF has put them in bad spots. From the 2-3 quarters Dallas is the worst team in football. But i will guarantee you, that if you Cut that 42% in half this def wouldnt be 32nd in the nfl. you cant leave your def on the field that long and expect them to not be blown up. Add in their injuries and thats only made a bad situation uglier.

 

[DejectedFan1996]

In other words, Terrell Owens - despite being a bane to many teams - was effectively right.

Which really says something about the red haired "offensive genius".

I've actually been saying this for YEARS about T.O. stating this and being right

 

[LatinMind]

Great information and not sure anybody has ever said it, but thanks for taking the time to provide solid data for everyone to discuss on the Zone. I always look forward to yours and a few other peoples post, they always are insightful, informational, and bring a lot of discussion to the Zone. It is so much better than the constant venting we see on many post's.

That being said, I have to ask the WHY question. Why has it changed? Why did it change? It just don't seem like this offense can sustain drives and score points when it needs to. It only looks good when Tony Romo is running the no-huddle or 2min offense. With that being said, I am not to fond of this new offense. All off season we kept hearing, they drafted Escobar to run more 21 set's and make the offense more like the Patriots. I really think someone in the Cowboys organization came up with a great idea to run a Patriots style offense with a Seahawks style defense and that concept has been a complete failure.

IMO one reason alone has forced more 3 and outs this yr. NO vertical routes. Those have been replaced by short out routes. And teams are sitting on them and getting PD's on Dallas.

 

[DFWJC]

How does this compare to the league average?

Always a legit question.

Of course, the other obvious question is to flip the script and ask how many fewer possessions the offense gets because this 32nd ranked defense does not get off the field.

Besides that, you have to appreciate the effort by the OP to actually look this stuff up. There is at least some validity to this argument.
I still say the teams issues are maybe 80% on the defense

 

[LatinMind]

At the end of the day, things are pretty tough when we have to debate which side of the ball is worse.

Theyre both bad, but im tired of reading threads of the Cowboys DEF is so bad and nobody taking the time to really look on how bad this offense is. You look at the def and whos playing, and you can see why they struggle. But you look at the starting 12 for Dallas offense and its hard to understand why they're this bad.

 

[TrailBlazer]

But

I see thread after thread about bad DEF so i decided to check on how bad this offense has been this yr. And theres a reason why this def is on the field so much. Well one because they cant stop anybody, just really gotten bad recently with all the injuries. But i decided to go thru all the game and see how many drives the Cowboys offense had failed to even get 15 yrds on a drive.

61 drives out of 142 drives have gained less than 15 yrds. That means 42% of the time Dallas has given the ball back to its opponents gaining virtually nothing and usually sent its DEF back out on the field in an avg time of 1min 45 sec of game play. Trust there is more than the DEF wrong with this team. And i think the DEF wouldnt be this bad if the OFF would give it time to rest during games.

Giants game
First drive of the yr Dallas gets a turnover vs the Giants at the 15
4 plays 3 yrds FG
3 plays 5 yrds punt
3 plays 3 yrds punt
5 plays -4 yrds punt

Cheifs game
3 plays 1 yrd punt
3 plays 7 yrds punt
2 plays -6 yrds half
5 plays 15 yrds fumble
3 plays 5 yrds punt

Rams game
5 plays 14 yrds punt
3 plays 8 yrds punt
6 plays 12 yrds punt

Chargers game
4 plays 6 yrds punt
3 plays 8 yrds punt
3 plays -1 yrd punt
4 plays 4 yrds missed FG

Denver game
1 play 10 yrds fumble
3 plays 2 yrds punt
2 plays -6 yrds Int

Commanders game
3 plays 0 yrds punt
3 plays -5 yrds punt
4 plays 15 yrds punt
3 plays -3 yrds punt

Eagles game
3 plays 9 yrds punt
3 plays 9 yrds punt
4 plays 9 yrds punt
3 plays 7 yrds punt
2 plays 4 yrds Int
3 plays 8 yrds punt
3 plays 3 yrds punt
3 plays 6 yrds punt

Lions game
5 plays 15 yrds punt
3 plays 0 yrds punt
3 plays 4 yrds punt
6 plays 15 yrds punt
4 plays 0 yrds FG
3 plays 4 yrds punt
4 plays 5 yrds FG

Vikings game
3 plays 3 yrds punt
6 pay 15 yrds punt
3 plays 9 yrds punt
5 plays 7 yrds punt
3 plays 1 yrd INT

Saints game
4 plays 4 yrds FG
3 plays 2 yrds punt
3 plays 8 yrds punt
6 plays 15 yrds punt
3 plays 5 yrds punt
3 plays -11 yrds punt
3 plays 5 yrds punt
4 plays -15 yrds punt
There were only 2 other drives in this game and both were TDs.

Giants game
4 plays 4 yrds punt
5 plays 2 yrds punt
3 plays 5 yrds punt
This game Dallas had 3 drives over 30 yrds

Raiders game
3 plays 5 yrds punt
3 plays 0 yrds punt
3 plays -5 yrds punt
3 plays -3 yrds punt

Bears game
4 plays 8 yrds punt
4 plays 10 yrds punt
3 plays 6 yrds punt

but but but! We're 3rd in scoring!!!

If you actually watch the game you know that stat is skewed. This offense is mediocre at best.

 

[LatinMind]

Always a legit question.

Of course, the other obvious question is to flip the script and ask how many fewer possessions the offense gets because this 32nd ranked defense does not get off the field.

Besides that, you have to appreciate the effort by the OP to actually look this stuff up. There is at least some validity to this argument.
I still say the teams issues are maybe 80% on the defense

In almost all of the games dallas has been involved in the drives have been equal. Add in 1 or 2 extra drives depening on who had the ball last at the end of each half. Theres only been one game that the poss have been lopsided and that was the Saints game.

 

[Deep_South]

In almost all of the games dallas has been involved in the drives have been equal. Add in 1 or 2 extr, a drives depening on who had the ball last at the end of each half. Theres only been one game that the poss have been lopsided and that was the Saints game.

As I recall, in the Bears game it was something like -

Bears 36 minutes
Boys 24 minutes

Those numbers are much less lopsided than it seemed while watching the game, because we spent a lot of our time running the ball and only had a hundred or so yards passing.

 

[CowboyStar88]

As I recall, in the Bears game it was something like -

Bears 36 minutes
Boys 24 minutes

Those numbers are much less lopsided than it seemed while watching the game, because we spent a lot of our time running the ball and only had a hundred or so yards passing.

What 10 year vet QB throws for less then 125 yards 2 times in a season against 2 playoff caliber teams?

 

[percyhoward]

Always a legit question.

Of course, the other obvious question is to flip the script and ask how many fewer possessions the offense gets because this 32nd ranked defense does not get off the field.

Besides that, you have to appreciate the effort by the OP to actually look this stuff up. There is at least some validity to this argument.
I still say the teams issues are maybe 80% on the defense

80% sounds about right. Generous toward the defense, if anything.

The defense is 22nd in average time of each possession, meaning that 21 other defenses get off the field more quickly on a per-possession basis.

Offensively, we're 14th in average time of each possession, so our offense stays on the field longer than most. That's down from 4th last year, and it's basically what has people complaining about the offense. Last year, we were used to long drives, more yards, and more time off the clock. But then we also had more turnovers, and less red zone success.

 

[Clove]

No as ive stated in the opening portion thatthe DEf has done itself no favors because it cant stop anybody. But the OFF has put them in bad spots. From the 2-3 quarters Dallas is the worst team in football. But i will guarantee you, that if you Cut that 42% in half this def wouldnt be 32nd in the nfl. you cant leave your def on the field that long and expect them to not be blown up. Add in their injuries and thats only made a bad situation uglier.

Great original post LM. Funny thing is, I mentioned this before u did your research, you just confirmed it. I keep telling people to watch the game, not just for fun, but to key in trends of weaknesses, if you use your eyes, you will understand better.

There was one game where the defense kept getting turnover after turnover and the offense still barely won us the game.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Great original post LM. Funny thing is, I mentioned this before u did your research, you just confirmed it. I keep telling people to watch the game, not just for fun, but to key in trends of weaknesses, if you use your eyes, you will understand better.

There was one game where the defense kept getting turnover after turnover and the offense still barely won us the game.

You're probably talking about Week 1 against the Giants. I think there was another game where we got a lot of turnovers and barely won. Wait, didn't we have a +4 turnover differential against the Lions and still lose?

 

[Gameover]

This is what I would call the real Romo factor.

 

[percyhoward]

I see thread after thread about bad DEF so i decided to check on how bad this offense has been this yr. And theres a reason why this def is on the field so much. Well one because they cant stop anybody, just really gotten bad recently with all the injuries. But i decided to go thru all the game and see how many drives the Cowboys offense had failed to even get 15 yrds on a drive.

61 drives out of 142 drives have gained less than 15 yrds. That means 42% of the time Dallas has given the ball back to its opponents gaining virtually nothing and usually sent its DEF back out on the field in an avg time of 1min 45 sec of game play. Trust there is more than the DEF wrong with this team. And i think the DEF wouldnt be this bad if the OFF would give it time to rest during games.

I appreciate the research. This definitely ain't the same O at all.

Yards Per Drive
2012: 34.01 (8th)
2013: 29.94 (18th)

TOP Per Drive
2012: 2:52 (4th)
2013: 2:37 (14th)

Punts Per Drive
2012: .395 (10th)
2013: .483 (30th)

If you look just at the above stats, and the stats in the OP, the offense seems like it must be in the bottom half of the league. But then you look at the most important stat of all -- scoring. Different story.

Points Per Drive
2012: 2.01 (10th)
2013: 2.21 (6th)

We're scoring more than we did last year, even with fewer yards, more punts, and less TOP. The defense also plays a role in this, giving the offense the 4th-best average starting field position. This ain't the same D either, but it's close. The difference is obviously the takeaways. Some of these takeaways have given the offense ridiculously good field position to start a drive.

Even so, if you look at only the offense's drives that start inside their own 30-yard line, 33% of those drives end in scores. That's 7th in the league. 21% end in touchdowns. That's 6th. Last year, we were 8th and 11th. IOW, more of these drives end in scores than last year.

We're doing it because we're #2 in red zone passing and #1 red zone rushing, based on the percentage of red zone plays that result in either a TD or first down. We also rank #2 in fewest turnovers per drive. Last year, we were at the opposite end of those categories.

No, the defense isn't the only problem. The offense can be better. But the defense couldn't be much worse.

 

[dstovall5]

You're probably talking about Week 1 against the Giants. I think there was another game where we got a lot of turnovers and barely won. Wait, didn't we have a +4 turnover differential against the Lions and still lose?

Yah, that was the game where we were up by 6 points with 1 minute remaining, and our defense let the Lions drive 80 yards for a TD to win the game. Also what was frustrating was they didn't even give any effort on the game ending TD. I mean I can understand if we're just not as physical or don't have the talent to compete very well, but at least give the effort ...

 

[Dodger12]

Theyre both bad, but im tired of reading threads of the Cowboys DEF is so bad and nobody taking the time to really look on how bad this offense is. You look at the def and whos playing, and you can see why they struggle. But you look at the starting 12 for Dallas offense and its hard to understand why they're this bad.

The Cowboys D may be one of the worst in the history of the game.....now that's pretty bad. The O has issues and they're wildly inconsistent,but if the D was "only" average or middle of the pack, we'd have a better record and not struggling to win a poor division.

 

[85Cowboy85]

Punts Per Drive
2012: .395 (10th)
2013: .483 (30th)

Does this number account for turnovers and going for it on fourth down? For instance if I fumble and that ends the drive is that disregarded or does that count as a "not punt" drive?

This year our turnovers per drive is 0.077. Last year it was 0.157.

The difference between those two is pretty significant. If I had to guess I would say that probably counts for 60-70% of the difference on it's own.

Edit: Assuming that it's not already accounted for of course.

 

[Risen Star]

I have no idea theyre not really stats that cover this i dont think. But You have to think almost half of the drives in your season are ending in 1:45. Thats not good. And there was about 13 more drives that ended less than 20 yrds. Most of Dallas scoring drives have come right before the half and at the end of games. So basically the offense is sending the DEF back out on the field for bascially the whole game and survive with late scores before the halfs end

You need to know the league average before you can make this kind of conclusion.

IMO, anybody blaming the offense at all for this DungsDay Defense is kidding themselves.

Our defense is this bad because of the talent of the players playing defense.

 

[Risen Star]

I didn't realize Percy chimed in with support for this theory.

I'll back away now. I meant no disrespect, Godfather.

 

[85Cowboy85]

No as ive stated in the opening portion thatthe DEf has done itself no favors because it cant stop anybody. But the OFF has put them in bad spots. From the 2-3 quarters Dallas is the worst team in football. But i will guarantee you, that if you Cut that 42% in half this def wouldnt be 32nd in the nfl. you cant leave your def on the field that long and expect them to not be blown up. Add in their injuries and thats only made a bad situation uglier.

The offense hasn't really put the defense in bad spots. The Dallas defense currently has the 8th most favorable starting field position and have the third least points off giveaways at 25. This is because our offense does not turn the ball over very frequently and often punts instead of going for it in no mans land.