This defense going forward

Messages
2,368
Reaction score
797
I've been a fan of this team since I was ten years old, in 1965. I've see the good, bad, & the ugly regarding their defense. Here is my take on the Cowboys the 2016 version after 11 games, in no particular order:

The DL:David Irving is our best DL, & at 6-7, 275, should be playing LDE. Ty Crawford is playing out of place due to the lack of depth at DE, I know, but, at 6-4, 295, should switch places with Irving, since he is heavier & more experienced at the 3-tech. The move would give our best perpetrator (Irving) less trash to move through to get into the backfield, which he is getting extremely good at. McClain & Thorton have played very well at the 1-tech spot. Rookie Maliek Collins needs more refinement, but is a keeper. DeMarcus Lawrence has been inconsistent, & needs to play harder & more aggressively every down. The pass rush is appalling, & it's time for the team to start drafting rushers in bunches-starting with the 1st round in 2017. No pot heads, PLEASE.

LBs: Sean Lee is playing like his Pro Bowl self. The young guys are encouraging. Hitchens & Wilson fly to the ball, & arrive with an attitude. From what I've seen from Nzeocha in the preseason, he's an excellent athlete as well. The jury is obviously still out on Jaylon Smith.

DBs: Two rookies have really caught my eye. Anthony Brown has been thrown into the fire, facing each opponent's best WR each week, & has more than held his own. He's been beaten several times, but has gotten little help deep. I don't know if it's the scheme they're running at the time, but too many times Byron Jones has arrived way too late on a bomb score. I know it's early yet, but I believe Jones' best position is at CB. Which brings me to the second rookie, Kavon Frazier. Every time he's in the game, number 35 is right there to help out when the ball is thrown in his vicinity. I believe that he has much better safety instincts than Jones right now, which is why I would give him a shot at starting next season, moving Jones back to CB. Church is solid, but is not a play maker. Overall, the secondary is woefully inept when it comes to making plays & turning the ball over. Thankfully, Malik Hooker, Ohio State's star FS is returning for another year. That gives us next draft to draft pass rushers like Tak McKinley & Dawuane Smoot, & corners like Quincy Wilson & Gareon Conley, & maybe trading back a few times to load up for 2018, so we can trade up for Hooker. This guy is another Ed Reed, with much more size. He has 6 ints. this season, 3 for pick sixes. That's the kind of DB we need to focus on if this defense is going to take the next step to greatness.
 

Irvin88_4life

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,509
Reaction score
26,396
I disagree with Jones at CB. Most times Jones is coming off his player to help on the deep passes. Frazier is a SS not a FS. We need better corners no doubt. Carr has been decent and Claiborne was great but Scandrick has been inconsistent and needs to be replaced.

Carr is still under contract and I would offer Claiborne a contract. Brown is still under contract and I would draft a corner in top 3 rounds next year.

I would only add a corner next year in the secondary. With Jones, Church, Heath, Frazier and a very improve Wilcox I think safety is good for now.

LB and DE is the most pressing need in the draft though
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,193
Reaction score
64,699
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I've been a fan of this team since I was ten years old, in 1965. I've see the good, bad, & the ugly regarding their defense. Here is my take on the Cowboys the 2016 version after 11 games, in no particular order:

The DL:David Irving is our best DL, & at 6-7, 275, should be playing LDE. Ty Crawford is playing out of place due to the lack of depth at DE, I know, but, at 6-4, 295, should switch places with Irving, since he is heavier & more experienced at the 3-tech. The move would give our best perpetrator (Irving) less trash to move through to get into the backfield, which he is getting extremely good at. McClain & Thorton have played very well at the 1-tech spot. Rookie Maliek Collins needs more refinement, but is a keeper. DeMarcus Lawrence has been inconsistent, & needs to play harder & more aggressively every down. The pass rush is appalling, & it's time for the team to start drafting rushers in bunches-starting with the 1st round in 2017. No pot heads, PLEASE.

LBs: Sean Lee is playing like his Pro Bowl self. The young guys are encouraging. Hitchens & Wilson fly to the ball, & arrive with an attitude. From what I've seen from Nzeocha in the preseason, he's an excellent athlete as well. The jury is obviously still out on Jaylon Smith.

DBs: Two rookies have really caught my eye. Anthony Brown has been thrown into the fire, facing each opponent's best WR each week, & has more than held his own. He's been beaten several times, but has gotten little help deep. I don't know if it's the scheme they're running at the time, but too many times Byron Jones has arrived way too late on a bomb score. I know it's early yet, but I believe Jones' best position is at CB. Which brings me to the second rookie, Kavon Frazier. Every time he's in the game, number 35 is right there to help out when the ball is thrown in his vicinity. I believe that he has much better safety instincts than Jones right now, which is why I would give him a shot at starting next season, moving Jones back to CB. Church is solid, but is not a play maker. Overall, the secondary is woefully inept when it comes to making plays & turning the ball over. Thankfully, Malik Hooker, Ohio State's star FS is returning for another year. That gives us next draft to draft pass rushers like Tak McKinley & Dawuane Smoot, & corners like Quincy Wilson & Gareon Conley, & maybe trading back a few times to load up for 2018, so we can trade up for Hooker. This guy is another Ed Reed, with much more size. He has 6 ints. this season, 3 for pick sixes. That's the kind of DB we need to focus on if this defense is going to take the next step to greatness.

Irving has been much better at DT than at DE. He has been better at DT than Crawford was this season but Crawford has been as good as Irving at DE.

Kavon Frazier has not played many snaps (14 total) and I know some of them have been with him arriving after the catch and tackle including him arriving late on a TD catch. He looks OK but there is no way to say that he has better instincts than Jones by watching 14 snaps.
 
Messages
2,368
Reaction score
797
Irving has been much better at DT than at DE. He has been better at DT than Crawford was this season but Crawford has been as good as Irving at DE.

Kavon Frazier has not played many snaps (14 total) and I know some of them have been with him arriving after the catch and tackle including him arriving late on a TD catch. He looks OK but there is no way to say that he has better instincts than Jones by watching 14 snaps.
I've watched many more snaps of Jones, & they're not good. Once again, last night, he was too late coming over to help rookie Anthony Brown on deep balls to be of any help. I don't get it. Why put a rookie on the opponent's best receiver, then not lean his way on deep balls? It has happened too much to be anything but Jones not reading what is happening quickly enough. Every time I have seen Frazier, he has been right there to help out on his side when the ball arrives. THAT'S what great free safeties do. They are always around the ball, not 20 yards too late.
 
Messages
2,368
Reaction score
797
I disagree with Jones at CB. Most times Jones is coming off his player to help on the deep passes. Frazier is a SS not a FS. We need better corners no doubt. Carr has been decent and Claiborne was great but Scandrick has been inconsistent and needs to be replaced.

Carr is still under contract and I would offer Claiborne a contract. Brown is still under contract and I would draft a corner in top 3 rounds next year.

I would only add a corner next year in the secondary. With Jones, Church, Heath, Frazier and a very improve Wilcox I think safety is good for now.

LB and DE is the most pressing need in the draft though
Read the roster. Frazier is listed as a Free Safety. He plays like it, too. The guy does what a free safety is supposed to do-be there when the ball arrives to help out his corner. Jones, once again, was late multiple times last night helping out on his side, which is usually the same side as rookie Anthony Brown, on deep balls. This is no knock on Jones. He's a great athlete & a very good football player, but he just doesn't have the instincts of a FS-period. If you want to watch a player who does have great FS instincts, watch Ohio State in the Championship Series. Malik Hooker has 6 ints., 3 for pick sixes, this season-broke the all-time record at OSU for TDs by a DB in a season. He is a great athlete who just has a nose for the ball, & plays center field like Ed Reed, only he's bigger. Hope we can grab him in the 2018 draft.
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,193
Reaction score
64,699
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I've watched many more snaps of Jones, & they're not good. Once again, last night, he was too late coming over to help rookie Anthony Brown on deep balls to be of any help. I don't get it. Why put a rookie on the opponent's best receiver, then not lean his way on deep balls? It has happened too much to be anything but Jones not reading what is happening quickly enough. Every time I have seen Frazier, he has been right there to help out on his side when the ball arrives. THAT'S what great free safeties do. They are always around the ball, not 20 yards too late.
So you're watching the All-22?
 

Irvin88_4life

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,509
Reaction score
26,396
Read the roster. Frazier is listed as a Free Safety. He plays like it, too. The guy does what a free safety is supposed to do-be there when the ball arrives to help out his corner. Jones, once again, was late multiple times last night helping out on his side, which is usually the same side as rookie Anthony Brown, on deep balls. This is no knock on Jones. He's a great athlete & a very good football player, but he just doesn't have the instincts of a FS-period. If you want to watch a player who does have great FS instincts, watch Ohio State in the Championship Series. Malik Hooker has 6 ints., 3 for pick sixes, this season-broke the all-time record at OSU for TDs by a DB in a season. He is a great athlete who just has a nose for the ball, & plays center field like Ed Reed, only he's bigger. Hope we can grab him in the 2018 draft.
Frazier is a SS. He is a Church clone and Brown plays on the left side of the defense which typically is where the strong safety plays. FS plays mostly on the right side.

That's college and we don't need safeties we need DE, LB and CB.
 
Messages
2,368
Reaction score
797
Really?

You concluded that Frazier was better than Jones in 14 snaps and he probably was not on the TV broadcast view in half of those snaps.
Do you really think that Byron Jones has been in good position to help out Anthony Brown on deep balls this season? I'm sure if you could find the video of previous games, you'd see Jones trailing badly as Brown gets beaten deep like a drum by Anthonio Brown of the Steelers: 14 for 154, DeSean Jackson of the Skins: 4 for 118, Steve Smith Sr. of the Ravens 8 for 99, etc., etc. Either Rod Marinelli is putting a rookie corner out on a limb with very little help deep, or Jones doesn't have the instincts to play FS. You decide.
 

gmoney112

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,589
Reaction score
15,694
Really?

You concluded that Frazier was better than Jones in 14 snaps and he probably was not on the TV broadcast view in half of those snaps.

You mean you don't trust film from a guy who doesn't know what All-22 is?
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,193
Reaction score
64,699
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Do you really think that Byron Jones has been in good position to help out Anthony Brown on deep balls this season? I'm sure if you could find the video of previous games, you'd see Jones trailing badly as Brown gets beaten deep like a drum by Anthonio Brown of the Steelers: 14 for 154, DeSean Jackson of the Skins: 4 for 118, Steve Smith Sr. of the Ravens 8 for 99, etc., etc. Either Rod Marinelli is putting a rookie corner out on a limb with very little help deep, or Jones doesn't have the instincts to play FS. You decide.
Have have all the games on DVR and I have access to all of the games on the All-22. I normally review each game at least 5 times. I re-watch all snaps except special teams.

They play a lot of single high safety. That is 1 Safety to cover the entire width of the field. The scheme dictates where the FS is located. If Brown is playing press-man, then you should expect Jones to be shaded to his side, but if you see Brown playing off-man then Jones might not be over there to help him. One the the reasons they play off-man is to play reasonably "safe" when they don't have Safety help.

Brown might be a rookie, but he is less susceptible to getting beat deep than Carr. Brown ran a 4.35 forty and Carr currently runs slightly faster than Witten.
 

gmoney112

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,589
Reaction score
15,694
Yes, I guess I'm just being mean to the kids.

haha. I know you watch a fair bit of the all-22. What are we running more of this year? I know 2014 was more cover 3, then we went to more cover 1 last year. Haven't been able to watch as closely this year but it looks like everytime they're passing for 10+ yards we're in cover 2 and it's an out route.
 

Kaiser

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,628
Reaction score
28,430
The DL:David Irving is our best DL, & at 6-7, 275, should be playing LDE. Ty Crawford is playing out of place due to the lack of depth at DE, I know, but, at 6-4, 295, should switch places with Irving, since he is heavier & more experienced at the 3-tech. .

Good post, the LDE is still kind of a mystery. IMO Tyrone Crawford should have cemented this spot but he hasn't really done that. I could see Dallas moving DLaw back there next season and signing a RDE.

I agree with Xwalker that Irving is better in the middle, he could still establish himself as a starting DE but right now he helps most as a beast backing up the 3T.

I like Kavon Frazier, but my spot for him next year would be replacing JJ Wilcox as the 3rd Safety.
 
Top