This is year Jim Rice gets into HOF

[Nors]

Glad to see some Rice love - I agree and hope to be at his induction the last weekend of July next year in Cooperstown.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You have to be insane strong to snap a bat

Not really. They shave the shafts so bad that it's not really all that difficult. Anything to keep the sweat spot but still generate bat speed.

 

[dbair1967]

Not really. They shave the shafts so bad that it's not really all that difficult. Anything to keep the sweat spot but still generate bat speed.

you need to go back and look at the bats Rice used...

David

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Shaving bats has gone on since the 70s. It's not unique.

 

[Glenn Carano]

Jim Rice is no Hall of Famer! Best of the bunch listed here, very good player, very good. Not a Hall of Famer. Not even 400 HR's, didn't bat .300. Never won squat. Sorry. The Hall of Fame is for the best of the best, the elite of the elite. They're letting in too many guys who don't deserve it now. The Baseball Hall of Fame is becoming a joke.

Will Clark is no Hall of Famer! Good, hard nosed ballplayer. Not a Hall of Famer. .303 lifetime average, 284 HR's, don't think so. See above comments.


Dwight Gooden is no Hall of Famer! Drugs and alcohol, 'nuff said. Not even close.

Orel Hersheiser is no Hall of Famer! He had one 20 win season. He has an unbelievable scoreless inning streak, but that doesn't get you in the Hall of Fame. Not even close.

 

[Nors]

Unfortunately its better to play 20 seasons and make mystical milestones.

In an era where HR's were down, Rice was a dominant player in the mid 70's to early 80's.

These crazy roid raged stats PAST DECADE are going to get Rice in - JMO

Fine line between very good and great - Rice is smack on that line and this is probably his last chance to get in.

I have a house booked and at that town anyway. I'm rooting for Rice - I was lucky enough to see him in AA and in Fenway - I'm hoping its Rice day in Cooperstown.

 

[Nors]

Rice's teams made two World Series

Geez - starting to sound like Bledsoe!

 

[Glenn Carano]

Unfortunately its better to play 20 seasons and make mystical milestones.

In an era where HR's were down, Rice was a dominant player in the mid 70's to early 80's.

These crazy roid raged stats PAST DECADE are going to get Rice in - JMO

Fine line between very good and great - Rice is smack on that line and this is probably his last chance to get in.

I have a house booked and at that town anyway. I'm rooting for Rice - I was lucky enough to see him in AA and in Fenway - I'm hoping its Rice day in Cooperstown.

Not gonna happen. Oh by the way, I'm a Yankee fan, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Give me some OF's with comparable numbers who are in and who are from Rice's era? Although I do agree that Rice's numbers would have been better had has career started 15 years later. Not because of steroids, but because of smaller ballparks now, expansion watering down the pitching and suspicions that the ball was juiced a few years. Another thing, Rice was pretty much done after the 1987 season when he was 33, but that's how it was back then. Most of the time, players were done by right around that age. Today, with players working out through the winter, lifting weights and not using spring training to get into shape they can play until their mid to late 30's and be productive. Or is that the steroids? I've thought the same thing about Mattingly. If he played today, what numbers would he put up? 145 RBI's in 2005 is one thing, but 145 in 1985 is a whole different ballgame. Mattingly's back did him in though, he has no shot. Rice, Mattingly and a bunch of other guys numbers would have benefitted playing in the late 90's til now, no doubt. But that's just the way it is. Like I said, the Baseball Hall is becoming a joke. They reward guys for longevity now and that just isn't right, I hate that. They're letting guys in that have no business being in there. It's an insult to the Ted Williams', the Sandy Koufax's, the Willie May's, the Mickey Mantle's, the Stan Musial's and so on. Some of these guys had rather long careers, but you knew they were Hall of Famer's.

 

[Glenn Carano]

Rice's teams made two World Series

Geez - starting to sound like Bledsoe!

Doesn't matter. In baseball they do seem to look at World Series victories for guys, especially guys on the bubble. I'm sure it helped Tony Perez. Thanks Nors, nice to get some baseball talk going.

 

[Nors]

Rice to my eyes 75-83 was a dominant player. That season 78? He set MLB record for total bases. I have not had time to research other equivalent players of that era that made it in. But many make it in on 20 season careers that add on stats.

If Rice had produced at a higher level later in career this would be a non issue. But indeed he had eye issues and 12/13 years into his career he fell off. Just short of the 400 and 3000 marks.

Eddie Murray, Yount, Molitor better career grinders but none ever as dominant as Rice.

 

[joseephuss]

Rice to my eyes 75-83 was a dominant player. That season 78? He set MLB record for total bases. I have not had time to research other equivalent players of that era that made it in. But many make it in on 20 season careers that add on stats.

If Rice had produced at a higher level later in career this would be a non issue. But indeed he had eye issues and 12/13 years into his career he fell off. Just short of the 400 and 3000 marks.

Eddie Murray, Yount, Molitor better career grinders but none ever as dominant as Rice.

Add in George Brett. I think Rice is on par with each of them or even better.

 

[Nors]

Brett almost hit .400 once and is a clear cut better - JMO

Guys like Perez, Trammell come to mind also

 

[Nors]

Some research - that gives Rice a leg

In -

Cepeda 379 HR 1365 RBI .297 AVG 2351 Hits 17 seasons
Perez 379 HR 1652 RBI .279 Avg. 2732 Hitts 22 seasons

Rice 382 HR 1451 RBI .298 Avg 2452 Hits 16 seasons
Mattingly 222 1099 .307 Great 3-4 year run - Fell off too much

Guys in I approve - But longevity a play

Murray 504 1917 .287 20 seasons
Yount 251 1406 .285 20 seasons
Molitor 234 1307 .306 21 seasons
Fisk 316 1330 .269 2f seasons

That just shows Rice has comparable stats to players in/near his era that are in. And that his average is above most of my sample of guys who get boost on longevity feats - 3000 hits but had lower averages than Rice....

 

[Glenn Carano]

Some research - that gives Rice a leg

In -

Cepeda 379 HR 1365 RBI .297 AVG 2351 Hits 17 seasons
Perez 379 HR 1652 RBI .279 Avg. 2732 Hitts 22 seasons

Rice 382 HR 1451 RBI .298 Avg 2452 Hits 16 seasons
Mattingly 222 1099 .307 Great 3-4 year run - Fell off too much

Guys in I approve - But longevity a play

Murray 504 1917 .287 20 seasons
Yount 251 1406 .285 20 seasons
Molitor 234 1307 .306 21 seasons
Fisk 316 1330 .269 2f seasons

That just shows Rice has comparable stats to players in/near his era that are in. And that his average is above most of my sample of guys who get boost on longevity feats - 3000 hits but had lower averages than Rice....

Here's where longevity comes into play. These guys all played 20 seasons. If you take off the last 5 years of their careers, they're probably not Hall of Famers. It's all about accumulating #'s and hitting milestones. 500 HR, 3000 Hits and so on. So it seems the Hall voters slant to cummulative totals over long periods of time instead of great numbers over lesser years. Yount and Molitor, are these guys really Hall of Famers? Look at their numbers year by year. Fisk was a catcher, so you have to look at those numbers differently. Then the Hall goes against the norm and inducts Kirby Puckett. Very good player for limited years, career cut short by injury. Does he deserve it?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Here's where longevity comes into play. These guys all played 20 seasons. If you take off the last 5 years of their careers, they're probably not Hall of Famers. It's all about accumulating #'s and hitting milestones. 500 HR, 3000 Hits and so on. So it seems the Hall voters slant to cummulative totals over long periods of time instead of great numbers over lesser years. Yount and Molitor, are these guys really Hall of Famers? Look at their numbers year by year. Fisk was a catcher, so you have to look at those numbers differently. Then the Hall goes against the norm and inducts Kirby Puckett. Very good player for limited years, career cut short by injury. Does he deserve it?

I think selection is based on more then just numbers for a long period of time. I think you also have to look at what they did to change the game. If a player is significant enough to do that, then I think he also has a chance to be a HOF guy. A good example of this is a guy like Sandy Koufax.

 

[Glenn Carano]

Here's the ballot for 2006 induction. Why waste our time with some of these guys? The only guys I will consider are down below.

Rick Aguilera, Albert Belle, Bert Blyleven, Will Clark, Dave Concepcion, Andre Dawson, Gary DiSarcina, Alex Fernandez, Gary Gaetti, Steve Garvey, Dwight Gooden, Rich Gossage, Ozzie Guillen, Orel Hershiser, Gregg Jefferies, Tommy John, Doug Jones, Don Mattingly, Willie McGee, Hal Morris, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker, Jim Rice, Lee Smith, Bruce Sutter, Alan Trammell, Walt Weiss, John Wetteland.

Bert Blyleven, I always liked him. 287 wins 3.31 career ERA
3701 career K's One of the best 12 to 6 curve balls ever. Still, another guy who was good, not great, for a long time and accumulated numbers.

More of these relief pitchers deserve it, I 'd have to look more closely at the numbers, but not many relievers in the Hall and there should be.

Jim Rice, Albert Belle, "Hawk" Dawson, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker and Alan Trammell all are very good ball players, but not Hall of Famers IMO. Rice may be the best of the bunch. I like Andre Dawson alot as well. Hershiser had one AMAZING season and the rest were average. Now Jack Morris is interesting. He was one of the best, if not the best pitcher in the AL throughout the 80's. Still no Cy Youngs, I say no. Not much to choose from this year, good chance for someone on the bubble. Mattingly, my favorite player ever, I'll admit, doesn't even deserve it. It's tough.

You need 75% of the vote to get in. Last year Sutter was on 66.7 percent of the ballots, followed by Jim Rice (59.5), Rich Gossage (55.2) and Andre Dawson (52.3). These guys have a shot this year as nobody new on the ballot really deserves it.

 

[Glenn Carano]

I think selection is based on more then just numbers for a long period of time. I think you also have to look at what they did to change the game. If a player is significant enough to do that, then I think he also has a chance to be a HOF guy. A good example of this is a guy like Sandy Koufax.

He's an exception to the rule and was a no brainer though. I know he didn't play long, but he totally dominated the game for at least 5 years and retired at his peak. 3 Cy Youngs.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He's an exception to the rule and was a no brainer though. I know he didn't play long, but he totally dominated the game for at least 5 years and retired at his peak. 3 Cy Youngs.

I agree but I wouldn't say he's an exception. I'd say he's the standard for what you look for in a guy who "Changed the Game". I would agree that historically, the numbers over a long period of time weigh heavily on voters. Having said that, I think there are certain instances where contribution, if even for a short time, can get you in.

You want to put someone in who should be there? Put in Pete Rose. I have never been a Pete Rose fan and I'm a life long Reds fan but, there's a guy who has done enough to get in IMO. All the rest aside, based on play alone, he's a first ballot Hall of Fame player IMO.

I also think Goose should be in. He was dominating in his time.

 

[Glenn Carano]

I agree but I wouldn't say he's an exception. I'd say he's the standard for what you look for in a guy who "Changed the Game". I would agree that historically, the numbers over a long period of time weigh heavily on voters. Having said that, I think there are certain instances where contribution, if even for a short time, can get you in.

You want to put someone in who should be there? Put in Pete Rose. I have never been a Pete Rose fan and I'm a life long Reds fan but, there's a guy who has done enough to get in IMO. All the rest aside, based on play alone, he's a first ballot Hall of Fame player IMO.

I also think Goose should be in. He was dominating in his time.

I say Koufax ia an exception because he didn't play 20 years and accumulate big career numbers. He's a no brainer, but he's not even in the top 100 or 150 in career wins. That's why he's an exception to me.

I HATE Pete Rose so I'll excuse myself from that discussion. What a sleazeball.

"Goose" is interesting as well. He "closed" games when the closer would go 2 and sometimes 3 innings. Intimidating to say the least.

 

[Nors]

Thats the premise of why I started this thread. This is a very - very weak entry class. The guys returning have Rice a close #2.

With all this steroid talk a player like Rice is getting new found love. There is an undercourant of support here in Boston radio and press - the same guys that have voted him out in past. This could be Rice's year.

In fact - probably his last shot at it. I booked my vacation to Cooperstown already. Good beseball talk -