Thoughts: Inside pass rush vs Outside pass rush

[vlad]

This is not a bash anyone thread, just a discussion point.

What is your opinion of the effectiveness of inside pass rush versus an outside rush? If you could only have one, which would you prefer?

For example, and outside rush would lead to a QB stepping up in the pocket, while and inside rush would lead to a QB running out of the pocket (or sidestepping).

I know we have a strong outside rush, but it seems like Ware is always flying just behind the QB who steps up but always has a pocket to step up into. Ellis is also and outside rusher, and either they suck or don't do it, but our inside LB don't ever rush the QB.

Obvioulsy they go hand-in-hand, but I would put a priority on collapsing the pocket. To me its not about pure sacks, but about disruption in a non-step up way (lack of a better phrase). I guess I would have hoped for more stunts, I do recall one play where Ware just hovered parallel to the line of scrimmage, moving towards the center and at the snap just nailed the QB.

Anyway, thought I'd get the other sofa-coaches in here on the job...thx

 

[TellerMorrow34]

The outside is better, IMO, if you've got someone in the middle just clogging it up enough where they can't step up. A lot more of your sack/strips come from the outside pass rush, rather than from up the middle where the QB can see it coming and cover up.

 

[khiladi]

Obvioulsy they go hand-in-hand, but I would put a priority on collapsing the pocket.

Inside pass-rush... Your closer to the QB than the outside rusher. IMO, your closing off more of the passing lanes. If your being attacked from the lest end, the QB still has plenty of vision to see the field.

 

[tyke1doe]

Inside.

We've seen first hand what happens when we just have an outside pass rush. Ware often gets pushed further down field, taking himself out of the play or the quarterback steps up in the pocket and, with head still down field, completes the play.

With an inside rush, the quarterback has to move to either his left or right and it's harder to throw on the run, especially if a quarterback is not extremely mobile. He still has to set his feet and throw if he's scrambling to the right or left. And if he's running right he basically eliminates half the field - the left side.

As a general rule, it's always best to make a runner or quarterback run horizonal or side-to-side than vertical or forward.

 

[Martice]

Inside pass rush. Not a lot of mobile qb's in the NFL. Brady (like deadslow) still couldn't make it outside to avoid the inside rush and beat the outside containment. Forcing a QB to the outside means that a lot of things are going to have to go right for the play to be effective. A lot more than if the QB is allowed to scan the field from the pocket.

If you are facing Mike Vick, Doug Flutie or Donovan McNabb, I would say give me an outside rush. Romo used to be in this group but he made more than enough plays from the pocket this year so with him, it's like pick your poison.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The idea of only being able to have one or the other is ludicrous. However, since the options are one or the other only, then I would take the outside pass rush.

While it is true that the quickest way to the QB is a middle rush, the worst possible thing for a defense is not being able to contain the QB. In most defenses, the QB is not accounted for unless you make special defensive assignements to do so. A QB who can break contain is the worst possible threat to a defense. Because you can't account for him without sacraficing part of your defensive coverage, it puts a tremendous amount of pressure on your defense. If you are incapable of creating a pass rush from the outside, then your asking for trouble IMO. Just to much ability for the QB to get out in the lanes and create things.

 

[IronCowboy]

If you have a Vince Wilfork or a Casey Hampton in the middle then an Outside Rush is perfect.

If not, Inside is the way to go.

 

[TheCount]

I'll take outside for the meer fact that it can come from two different locations, or even both at once.

If all you've got is inside pressure, teams will just take that into account and make adjustments. If you have outside, then a team has to at least respect both edges, and that lends to being able to do more with your defensive schemes.

 

[juck]

Ask Brady,He will tell u inside,lol.

 

[TheCount]

Ask Brady,He will tell u inside,lol.

True but I think the Giants inside pressure comes as a consqence of teams being worried about Osi and Strahan from the outside.

 

[Martice]

True but I think the Giants inside pressure comes as a consqence of teams being worried about Osi and Strahan from the outside.

Basically, any of the two choices comes down to what type of QB you are facing. The G-Men were able to 'T' Off on Brady because they knew where he would be at the point of attack. Much like they did with Bledsoe when he was with us. What I find interesting is that Garrett didn't run more designed roll outs or screens when he saw Romo getting killed in the pocket late in the game.

If you are facing a QB that is not mobile but is exceptional from the pocket, then you get to him anyway you can but like The Count said above, where ever the best pressure is coming from, the opportunities should open up later for the other parts of the defense as the Offense adjusts to the areas where the initial pressure is coming from. What happened to the Patriots in the G-Men's favor was the Patriots couldn't tell where the pressure was coming from by the end of the game.

 

[thewireman]

What I hate seeing is the outside pass rush the cowboys use sometimes where its just Ware and Ellis trying to get to the QB but it seems like they go waaaay outside and have to circle back in. Its like the QB has a magnatic field around him

 

[CF74]

As pointed out already it depends on who you are playing. Statues with arms need to be attacked from the middle, scramblers are better accounted for on the edges being forced into the pocket. After reading this thread I have come to the conclusion we were out coached defensively.

We really need to use a 4 man rush more often than not..

 

[Rack]

Inside pass rush. If your inside rush is good, the outside guys WILL get sacks.


But combining a good inside rush with a dominant outside force like Demarcus Ware?

 

[CATCH17]

If I were a Quarterback I think inside pass rush would bother me more.

Plus once I saw the pressure caving in the middle id be reluctant to roll out of the pocket.

 

[burmafrd]

Giants won because they had both. Brady never knew where thepressure was going to come from, and that is also part of the plan. You need to have both to have a fully effective pass rush.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

You guys are overthinking this. It's simple if the QB can't step up and make throws then he is at a disadvatange. Inside rush is better think about how teams try to form a pocket around the QB. The pocket will crumble if the center is getting pushed back.

OL QB OL
OL OL
OL
DE DT DE
OLB ILB ILB OLB
​

It kind to hard to illustrate but getting up in the QB's face is a lot better than come of the edges. Coming off the edges is good but coming up the middle and the QB staring a DT in the face as he's bout to be hit is like a deer in head lights.​

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Honestly the more I think about this the true answer is one can't be great without the other being good.

If you have a great inside pass rush, but nothing outside really, then they'll roll out on you. If you have a great outside rush but not a good enough inside then they'll just step up in the pocket and it's all for waste.

You really need one or the other to be great but the one that isn't great has to be at least a very good compliment to help out.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

If I could have one, it would be outside pass rush. You can get to the QB's blindside and if you have a legitimately great outside pass rush, it's a lot tougher to double on both ends whereas an inside pass rush can be doubled quite easily. In the grand scheme of things, you need both to have an effective pass rush.





YAKUZA

 

[Rack]

Honestly the more I think about this the true answer is one can't be great without the other being good.

If you have a great inside pass rush, but nothing outside really, then they'll roll out on you. If you have a great outside rush but not a good enough inside then they'll just step up in the pocket and it's all for waste.

You really need one or the other to be great but the one that isn't great has to be at least a very good compliment to help out.

You don't have to have a great outide rush to have good containment on the outside.