Thoughts on Livings and Bernadeau so far

[CyberB0b]

They are pretty much who they were before they got here.

Livings: Nothing special. Can play well, but is wildly inconsistent.
Bernadeau: Not an NFL starter.

 

[jterrell]

This. Ultra-sorry deals for below-average players.

No and No. 23 million is peanuts but that total is for 4 plus seasons.
And Livings is more than a placeholder. 9 mil of that 23 is in Livings 4th and 5th years. At the end of 3 seasons the total will be 12/13 million for BOTH players for 3 seasons work. That is a great deal!

As to Livings:
He has graded out highest of our OL on the season.
He has outplayed Smith largely because he has committed far fewer penalties.
He has outplayed the other 3 starters because they have been bad.

Bern has been shoddy (until last game) but he was an ultra cheap signing meant to provide insurance.

The OL hasn't been good but the fault lies far more with highly paid Doug Free who sucks on both sides of the line. Tyron Smith also had a rough start as a LT but appears to have calmed down a bit.

 

[jterrell]

If the Cowboys want to truly upgrade the OL they will draft a RT and release Free.

The interior of Livings, Costa and Bern have played 1 game together. That went very, very well. We'll see if it was a mirage but interior OL need to play well as a group moreso than individually.

If you want to look at where we are not getting our money's worth right now the two leading culprits are Miles Austin and Doug Free. Miles has 20 catches which is all of 3 more than Ogletree. Dez has 34.

People are hung up on Livings and Bern because they were bargain bin guys and not the overly priced FAs everyone wanted. But in this league you need to get what you pay for.

 

[burmafrd]

If the Cowboys want to truly upgrade the OL they will draft a RT and release Free.

The interior of Livings, Costa and Bern have played 1 game together. That went very, very well. We'll see if it was a mirage but interior OL need to play well as a group moreso than individually.

If you want to look at where we are not getting our money's worth right now the two leading culprits are Miles Austin and Doug Free. Miles has 20 catches which is all of 3 more than Ogletree. Dez has 34.

People are hung up on Livings and Bern because they were bargain bin guys and not the overly priced FAs everyone wanted. But in this league you need to get what you pay for.

no you need also to get what you need. It is not the same thing.

When you bargain shop you usually get what you pay for

 

[Mash]

Bernadeau contract


Base Salary S. Bonus Cap Hit

2012 1,000,000 812,500 - 1,812,500
2013 1,750,000 812,500 - 2,562,500
2014 2,250,000 812,500 - 3,062,500
2015 2,750,000 812,500 - 3,562,500

I dont know what all the fuss is about....he will never see 2014 if he doesnt improve.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Living has been good... #19 ranked guard per PFF.

Bern... well not so good.

I will say, given his (Bern's) off season surgery and his late training camp, I'm not quite ready to consider his signing a failure.

Living's signing has been darned good actually.

 

[DallasDW00ds0n]

Bern was awful for 4 weeks and Livings has been OK

 

[jterrell]

Living has been good... #19 ranked guard per PFF.

Bern... well not so good.

I will say, given his (Bern's) off season surgery and his late training camp, I'm not quite ready to consider his signing a failure.

Living's signing has been darned good actually.

do you have the rankings for all our starters by any chance?
my pff sub isnt active.

broaddus mentioned livings rated highest on the ol but it sounded like he meant from the coaches grades. wonder if pff backs that up.

btw, pff has no reason to over-rate livings. they argued he wasnt any good after we signed him. they had a good debate with broaddus over it.

 

[burmafrd]

PFF is total complete garbage. Anyone believing their ratings are valid needs their heads examined

 

[RS12]

They are pretty much who they were before they got here.

Livings: Nothing special. Can play well, but is wildly inconsistent.
Bernadeau: Not an NFL starter.

This.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

do you have the rankings for all our starters by any chance?
my pff sub isnt active.

broaddus mentioned livings rated highest on the ol but it sounded like he meant from the coaches grades. wonder if pff backs that up.

btw, pff has no reason to over-rate livings. they argued he wasnt any good after we signed him. they had a good debate with broaddus over it.

Free 61 out of 68.
Smith 48 out of 68 (nice jump for him, he was lower than Free at one point).
Bern is 67 out of 72.
Livings is 19 out of 72.
Cook is 18 out of 35.

I'm guessing that Costa does not have enough snaps to rate as of right now.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

PFF is total complete garbage. Anyone believing their ratings are valid needs their heads examined

We're still waiting for your rankings BTW.


You're old "grade them by your eye" thingy is useful for watching one player. But is next to useless for comparing that player to all of his peers.

You have no rational standard in which to rate players, and while the PFF rating system may be flawed to one extent or another yours is like one of those joke weather forcasters...

You know one of those things that has a piece of string tied to it and you hang it outside?

If it's wet-it's raining.

If it's blowing-it's windy.

If it's frozen-it's snowing.

If it's dry-it's sunny.


The Burmafrd football rating "system" is in that category.

 

[Ultimategamer5567]

We're still waiting for your rankings BTW.


You're old "grade them by your eye" thingy is useful for watching one player. But is next to useless for comparing that player to all of his peers.

You have no rational standard in which to rate players, and while the PFF rating system may be flawed to one extent or another yours is like one of those joke weather forcasters...

You know one of those things that has a piece of string tied to it and you hang it outside?

If it's wet-it's raining.

If it's blowing-it's windy.

If it's frozen-it's snowing.

If it's dry-it's sunny.


The Burmafrd football rating "system" is in that category.

 

[TheCoolFan]

I'm so proud of both of them

 

[gimmesix]

They are pretty much who they were before they got here.

Livings: Nothing special. Can play well, but is wildly inconsistent.
Bernadeau: Not an NFL starter.

Actually, I believe Livings has been pretty consistent. He hasn't made very many mistakes and has easily been our top interior linemen, and arguably our best lineman, period.

So far, I'm happy with that signing.

Bernadeau ... not so much.

 

[gimmesix]

Free 61 out of 68.
Smith 48 out of 68 (nice jump for him, he was lower than Free at one point).
Bern is 67 out of 72.
Livings is 19 out of 72.
Cook is 18 out of 35.

I'm guessing that Costa does not have enough snaps to rate as of right now.

So, according to them, our right side has been crap. Can't say I disagree based on the eye test.

Gotta give Cook some credit for being an average center considering him getting thrown in there right off the bus.

 

[bark]

Free 61 out of 68.
Smith 48 out of 68 (nice jump for him, he was lower than Free at one point).
Bern is 67 out of 72.
Livings is 19 out of 72.
Cook is 18 out of 35.

I'm guessing that Costa does not have enough snaps to rate as of right now.

What I'd like to know is who are the 62-68 rated tackles and are they on our schedule...hard to believe anyone has played worse than Doug free in the nfl

 

[Risen Star]

So, according to them, our right side has been crap. Can't say I disagree based on the eye test.

Gotta give Cook some credit for being an average center considering him getting thrown in there right off the bus.

But that's just it. Cook hasn't been an average C. PFF is a steaming pile of crap. You don't need to compose your own player rankings to know that.

I frankly don't care where these players rank in accordance to their peers. It's too subjective, and really the bottom line is are they good enough to be a strength of this team? No. They are not. We have Tyron Smith and 4 guys who have no NFL future on a quality OL.

 

[Risen Star]

Actually, I believe Livings has been pretty consistent. He hasn't made very many mistakes and has easily been our top interior linemen, and arguably our best lineman, period.

So far, I'm happy with that signing.

Bernadeau ... not so much.

You have much lower standards than I do.

Livings probably has been our best interior offensive lineman, but that's a case of the chubby chick standing next to two fatties. He's a marginal starting player at best. Not a guy you look to build a future line with.

 

[gimmesix]

You have much lower standards than I do.

Livings probably has been our best interior offensive lineman, but that's a case of the chubby chick standing next to two fatties. He's a marginal starting player at best. Not a guy you look to build a future line with.

Considering I didn't expect much at all from Livings, I'm happy he has been solid. And he has been solid, making few mistakes. (The knock on him in Cincinnati wasn't that he couldn't play, but simply that he didn't play with any consistency, and he has been consistently solid.)

That doesn't mean I don't want studs all across the line, but Dallas didn't ask me what I wanted.

Right now, knowing Dallas isn't going to turn around and replace a bunch of linemen next year, I could live with Livings keeping his place next to Smith and the Cowboys working elsewhere on the line to improve.