Thoughts on Ray Rice

[hendog]

Ray Rice may have run a 4.4 (which he did) at the combine, but I don't think he plays with that speed. I have seen him run down from behind several times. I have never seen Charles run down from behind. Rice is not as fast as Charles in pads carrying a football. Period.

 

[theogt]

Ray Rice may have run a 4.4 (which he did) at the combine, but I don't think he plays with that speed. I have seen him run down from behind several times. I have never seen Charles run down from behind. Rice is not as fast as Charles in pads carrying a football. Period.

He may not be as fast (in terms of long speed only), but he's stronger, has better vision, balance, and has better lateral agility, and will certainly make a better RB.

 

[DFWJC]

One moment I think that the Cowboys need to draft a third down back with lightening speed to make plays. I then look at the cowboys and their success with running the ball over the past few years. We never had backs that were lightening quick or fast. We had a back with decent speed and good all around skills in JJ.

I look at the draft and see a good complete back in Ray Rice. But he lacks that speed I previously mentioned. I'm of the opinion right now that we should draft Jamaal Charles. Thoughts?

Except for last year, we actually have NOT run the ball well recently. before then, Emmitt was an exception rather than the rule. He was a rare back that had okay speed but great vision, powerful leg drive, and that intangible winning spirit....he also had one of the best O-Lines in history.

Before Emmitt was Tony Dorsett--who had serious wheels.

As for JJ...he is average...period.

On paper, Ray Rice looks better than JJ to me....but there are questions about him as well. Charles is similar to C Johnson. I would be happy to get any of those three in the 2nd round.

Most teams use more than one back these days unless they find a freak that can do it all. Even Adrian Peterson will share the load to some degree fro his whole career. If you can find a guy with great vision, endurance, and speed, who can also catch the ball and occasionally block (though many foramtion flare out the RB these days) you have it.

 

[DFWJC]

Count
My Post-Combine, Pre-Free Agency, Mock Draft
1a. Leodis McKelvin (CB) / Domonique Rodgers-Cromartie (CB) / Limas Sweed (WR)
1b. James Hardy (WR) / Aqib Talib (CB) / Jeff Otah (OT/G)
2. Chris Johnson (RB) / Jamaal Charles (RB) / Ray Rice (RB)
3. Ahtyba Rubin (DT) / Jordy Nelson (WR) / Cliff Avril (DE/OLB/ILB)
4. Josh Barrett (FS/SS) / Tom Zbikowski (SS,PR) / Donald Thomas (OG)


I like that draft.

 

[DFWJC]

He may not be as fast (in terms of long speed only), but he's stronger, has better vision, balance, and has better lateral agility, and will certainly make a better RB.

That could all be true, but I would hold off on the last staement of him "surely" making a better RB. Still, I see the reasoning.

It should be interesting looking back at all of these backs in a year or two to see who pans out. Some will be determined by how they are used and what team they go to. There are 7-10 backs that could actually have an impact...and probably another that is under everyones radar (like Willie Parker was coming out).

 

[tomson75]

Ray Rice may have run a 4.4 (which he did) at the combine, but I don't think he plays with that speed. I have seen him run down from behind several times. I have never seen Charles run down from behind. Rice is not as fast as Charles in pads carrying a football. Period.

If this were a track meet Charles would be my #2 pick after Johnson, but this being football, I'll take the better running back. Rice. You've seen Rice run down form behind a few times? Sure, it happens, but if you're going by those popular youtube clips, you'll notice he was caught only after 40-50 yards. I'll take that all day. If you watched Rutgers football at all in the last two years, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

BTW, Rice's 10 and 20 yard splits were faster than Charles'...so unless Charles is planning on averaging 40 yards per...

Vision>>>>>>>>>>>>>top end speed.

 

[TheCount]

Count
My Post-Combine, Pre-Free Agency, Mock Draft
1a. Leodis McKelvin (CB) / Domonique Rodgers-Cromartie (CB) / Limas Sweed (WR)
1b. James Hardy (WR) / Aqib Talib (CB) / Jeff Otah (OT/G)
2. Chris Johnson (RB) / Jamaal Charles (RB) / Ray Rice (RB)
3. Ahtyba Rubin (DT) / Jordy Nelson (WR) / Cliff Avril (DE/OLB/ILB)
4. Josh Barrett (FS/SS) / Tom Zbikowski (SS,PR) / Donald Thomas (OG)


I like that draft.

Thanks. I haven't updated it since the combine though, waiting to see how things shake out.

 

[btcutter]

Watching Youtube shows that Ray Rice is one who runs through alot of traffic and comes out of piles of tacklers. I love his vision and quick feet. He may not have the "speed" that some are drooling over but I take vision and quick feet over speed anyday. Look at our own back field...Barber>>>Jones>>>Thompson. speed without vision = track star.

 

[the_h0wey]

The only way I would be happy if we drafted Ray Rice is if we got him in the second & Stewart, and Felix Jones were off the board

 

[hendog]

He may not be as fast (in terms of long speed only), but he's stronger, has better vision, balance, and has better lateral agility, and will certainly make a better RB.

I don't know what you do for a living but you've missed your calling if your not an NFL GM.

 

[masomenos]

FELIX JONES THIS YEAR!

MAN, look at his YARD PER CARRY for EVERY GAME, this tells me he runs great against EVERY DEFENSE he's faced and is consistent game in and game out.
Now, look at his yards, he seems to have basically gotten over 100 yards EVERY GAME when he's getting MINIMAL Carries EVERY GAME (because of McFadden).

Then look at his LONGEST RUN compared to his ATTEMPTS for that game.
He's only getting MINIMAL TOUCHES EVERY GAME and CONSISTENTLY breaks off a LONG RUN "WEEK IN AND WEEK OUT".

Felix Jones played in a gimmick offense where team were keying on McFadden. He runs with no power and often goes down on first contact. He offers no inside running ability and offers very little in terms of receiving and blitz pick up. All he did in college was run outside. Jones is one of the few RBs I would actually be upset about drafting. We've already had one Jones who couldn't seem to find holes, we don't need another.

Great college player but I will be extremely surprised if he has success in the NFL. There are at least 7 RBs I would take ahead of him.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Felix Jones played in a gimmick offense where team were keying on McFadden. He runs with no power and often goes down on first contact. He offers no inside running ability and offers very little in terms of receiving and blitz pick up. All he did in college was run outside. Jones is one of the few RBs I would actually be upset about drafting. We've already had one Jones who couldn't seem to find holes, we don't need another.

Great college player but I will be extremely surprised if he has success in the NFL. There are at least 7 RBs I would take ahead of him.

playing in dmac shadow got this kid to be a 1st round prospect. He would have been exposed if he stayed for another year.

 

[JustinTheDestructor]

The only knock on Rice is the ammount of carries he's had in such a short period of time. He's been a true work horse and done splendidly, but that's alot of wear on his body in a really short time. He's had close to 1000 carries over the three year span of his college career. Compare that to McFadden's 785, Chris Johnson's 624, Stewarts' 516, Mendenhall's 388...its like he played two extra seasons.

 

[btcutter]

The only knock on Rice is the ammount of carries he's had in such a short period of time. He's been a true work horse and done splendidly, but that's alot of wear on his body in a really short time. He's had close to 1000 carries over the three year span of his college career. Compare that to McFadden's 785, Chris Johnson's 624, Stewarts' 516, Mendenhall's 388...its like he played two extra seasons.

Unless he's got an injury that you are concerned with, being able to handle work load isn't the issue. In fact, one should be concerned about other backs NOT being able to handle full time duties. Besides, the average life span for an NFL RB is like 4 yrs so you pick the best one and hope they can stay healthy.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

He may not be as fast (in terms of long speed only), but he's stronger, has better vision, balance, and has better lateral agility, and will certainly make a better RB.

but will probably be taken after CJ

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Unless he's got an injury that you are concerned with, being able to handle work load isn't the issue. In fact, one should be concerned about other backs NOT being able to handle full time duties. Besides, the average life span for an NFL RB is like 4 yrs so you pick the best one and hope they can stay healthy.

the mileage that he already has, should be somewhat of a concern, meaning he'll have a shorter life-span than backs who have had less wear and tear on them, esp. being only 197 or so lbs.

 

[theogt]

but will probably be taken after CJ

Ted Ginn was taken ahead of Dwayne Bowe.

the mileage that he already has, should be somewhat of a concern, meaning he'll have a shorter life-span than backs who have had less wear and tear on them, esp. being only 197 or so lbs.

I think a better way to look at it is that he's proven he can handle the load, so he's more likely to last while receiving that load in the NFL. He should have the longest, most productive career out of all backs this year.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Ted Ginn was taken ahead of Dwayne Bowe.

true

but then again, Mark Clayton was bomb-*** as a rookie too, and I don't think a raw, rookie WR compared to a rookie from a Pro-Style college offense, is a good comparison, Bowe was ready-made to play in the NFL, Ginn wasn't, plus RB is a much easier position to transition to from college to the pros

I think a better way to look at it is that he's proven he can handle the load, so he's more likely to last while receiving that load in the NFL. He should have the longest, most productive career out of all backs this year.

not if he has more wear and tear on him already

but I agree that a back who showed that he could handle the full workload in college makes him better suited to in the pros

 

[theogt]

true

but then again, Mark Clayton was bomb-*** as a rookie too, and I don't think a raw, rookie WR compared to a rookie from a Pro-Style college offense, is a good comparison, Bowe was ready-made to play in the NFL, Ginn wasn't, plus RB is a much easier position to transition to from college to the pros

Ginn was taken where he was because of his speed. Bowe was the more complete receiver. Just like Johnson will be taken where he is because of his speed, but Rice is the more complete back.

not if he has more wear and tear on him already

That's not the determining factor, which is, rather, how does one handle wear and tear?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Ginn was taken where he was because of his speed. Bowe was the more complete receiver.

yeah, that's what I said

Just like Johnson will be taken where he is because of his speed, but Rice is the more complete back.

and playmaking ability

That's not the determining factor, which is, rather, how does one handle wear and tear?

that is true, just reinforcing that the amount of carries a back has in college is sometimes referred to as a negative, esp. when you're only 197, and even if you're great at avoiding hits, you're still getting hit quite often if you carry the ball 1,000 times, you are being brought down on most of those carries

btw, CJ is no slouch as a back, can run both inside and out, can break tackles, can make people miss, and is a great receiver, what's keeping him from being a complete back is his blocking