Thoughts On Romo

[DIAF]

Apparently we also knew what we had in 20 whatever old Drew.

Apparently.

Again, my frustration was not with the fact that i thought Drew H was some sort of Romo-esqe football jesus, but just that I couldnt stand Vinny T and thought he was a waste of air. Here's my post history for 2004 if you don't believe me.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/search.php?searchid=521324&pp=25&page=14

 

[PBJTime]

You again. Romo Defender Fanboy #1.

First of all, I lived in Falcons TV-territory in 1991. I did see Brett Farve come in for some mopup and do nothing. But then again, he was a rookie QB.

The next two years he was ok on some decent Green Bay teams. But those were his 2nd and 3rd years in the league. Tony Romo is in his SIXTH SEASON. SIXTH. Count 'em. And he had the advantage of sitting and learning for 3 years how to be an NFL QB, which Favre did not have the luxury of.

I still cant believe you are comparing Romo to Favre. Favre needs an extra wing of his house to hold all his hardware. Romo's can fit in a cardboard box.

We've seen Romo perform brilliantly, yes. However, we have seen him fail time and time again in the most crucial of situations. During the Playoffs and the playoff drive.

Ahhh, the good old "he's been in the league 6 years" argument.

He's been STARTING for 2 1/2...period. Spin it however you want, but clipboard holding doesn't exactly count for game experience. Farve needs an extra wing because he's been starting for the better part of two decades. What's your point? I'm not comparing the two careers head to head...I'm comparing where they are at at similar points in their careers. What part of that is hard to understand? If this had been Farve at this point in his career, he'd have been doing worse than Romo. You would be calling for his head. He would have already thrown more picks and less TD's while winning exactly the same amount of playoff games as Romo.

 

[DIAF]

Ahhh, the good old "he's been in the league 6 years" argument.

He's been STARTING for 2 1/2...period. Spin it however you want, but clipboard holding doesn't exactly count for game experience. Farve needs an extra wing because he's been starting for the better part of two decades. What's your point? I'm not comparing the two careers head to head...I'm comparing where they are at at similar points in their careers. What part of that is hard to understand? If this had been Farve at this point in his career, he'd have been doing worse than Romo. You would be calling for his head. He would have already thrown more picks and less TD's while winning exactly the same amount of playoff games as Romo.

Except Farve's teams weren't coming off of 13-win, first-round bye seasons, did not have 13 probowlers, and were not Favorites to represent the NFC in the Super Bowl.

 

[wileedog]

Apparently.

Again, my frustration was not with the fact that i thought Drew H was some sort of Romo-esqe football jesus, but just that I couldnt stand Vinny T and thought he was a waste of air. Here's my post history for 2004 if you don't believe me.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/search.php?searchid=521324&pp=25&page=14

I believe you, and of course its easier for me to answer this in hindsight.

But again at the time I said he was not in there because Bill obviously didn't think he belonged in there. And no I'm not going to dig it up

 

[PBJTime]

First of all he's not a kid... He's a grown *** man, my age to be exact. I don't get a pass in my profession for being only 28.

Second of all, he turns the ball over way too much and doesn't have the pocket awareness to just take the sack or throw the damn ball away!

First, it's silly to try to compare your profession to an NFL football players' profession, especially with as unique circumstances as Romo...that is, unless you are an NFL football player. It's a TOTALLY different ballgame, no pun intended.

Secondly, I don't think anybody is giving him a pass. Most, like myself, are simply laughing at all of those that are calling for his head and blaming this loss squarely on him. It's absurd. No matter how people want to discount his stats (since they don't fit their purposes) he has been directly responsible for scoring MANY points for this team. You need points to win games, last I checked.

I remember a QB that liked to take sacks. Oh...and it wasn't too long ago. I remember people wanting him to try to make plays.

 

[TEUFELI]

yeah...he needs a mentor. Not to be the stir running a team. Actually...he is a ****ing jack ***

 

[PBJTime]

Except Farve's teams weren't coming off of 13-win, first-round bye seasons, did not have 13 probowlers, and were not Favorites to represent the NFC in the Super Bowl.

Nice excuse...you have one for everything.

Having said that, they were playoff teams that Favre was on in the beginning.

At what point do you determine how much Romo contributed to the success of the Pro Bowlers on this team? Or did they do it all despite Romo? TO and Witten caught magical passes that emerged from the turf? Are you saying that the Pro Bowl means something? Are you saying the Pro Bowl dicates who the best players in the NFL are? Does having a team full of Pro Bowlers mean it is a good team? If you are saying that, then I'd say you are talking about getting rid of a one of the best players on this team, a Pro Bowl QB.

If you think like most people, then you know the Pro Bowl doesn't always mean a player is great or that the team they are on is good. This team isn't great as a team, obviously, so to suggest that Romo is playing on an outstanding team and dragging it down is dumb.

You are acting like this is just some outstanding team that would be in the Superbowl if it weren't for Romo. No, my friend, Favre was better off with the team he had.

 

[wileedog]

Except Farve's teams weren't coming off of 13-win, first-round bye seasons, did not have 13 probowlers, and were not Favorites to represent the NFC in the Super Bowl.

Nor were they coached by Wade Phillips or a 2nd year OC who was operating for the first time without a safety net (Sparano). Mike Holmgren was/is a damn fine offensive coach who had Ron Wolf - a superior personnel guy to Jerry in every way - supporting him.

And lets look at those 13 Pro-bowlers

Romo- Has been hurt the entire 2nd half of the season, but ok has played poorly


Barber - Injured down the stretch, not nearly as effective as last year
Owens - Not even close statistically to last year - complaining about simplistic offensive system
Witten - Basically everything broken in his body at this point, playing on adrenaline and morphine
Flozell Adams - Maybe its the loss of Kosier next to him, but he has been utter crap this year
Bigg Davis - Nowhere's near as effective this year as last
Andre Gurode - Someone has to be missing these calls that are letting Ravens, Steelers and Eagles run untouched to Romo every other play.
Demarcus Ware - Better year, one of the few improved
Roy Williams (original style) - Shouldn't have been there last year anyway, hurt this year - replaced by Keith Davis who as a safety is a great special teams player.
Greg Ellis - Is not on the field half as much as last year. Very little impact this season
T-New - Injured most of the year, torched some when he came back. He has had a terrible season by his standards.
Ken Hamlin - Utterly Invisible this season after holding out and getting paid. Actually I take that back, we can blame the Ravens game - and indirectly not being in the playoffs - almost squarely on him for missing two ridiculous tackles and dropping a fumble.
Nick Folk - Eh, its a kicker.

So basically 3 players - Ware, Witten and the kicker FOlk are on par with their "Pro Bowl" performances of last year. All of the rest have had significant downturns because of injury in some cases, or in other cases not really being all that good in the first place.

Yet this is all Romo's fault?

 

[PBJTime]

Nor were they coached by Wade Phillips or a 2nd year OC who was operating for the first time without a safety net (Sparano). Mike Holmgren was/is a damn fine offensive coach who had Ron Wolf - a superior personnel guy to Jerry in every way - supporting him.

And lets look at those 13 Pro-bowlers

Romo- Has been hurt the entire 2nd half of the season, but ok has played poorly


Barber - Injured down the stretch, not nearly as effective as last year
Owens - Not even close statistically to last year - complaining about simplistic offensive system
Witten - Basically everything broken in his body at this point, playing on adrenaline and morphine
Flozell Adams - Maybe its the loss of Kosier next to him, but he has been utter crap this year
Bigg Davis - Nowhere's near as effective this year as last
Andre Gurode - Someone has to be missing these calls that are letting Ravens, Steelers and Eagles run untouched to Romo every other play.
Demarcus Ware - Better year, one of the few improved
Roy Williams (original style) - Shouldn't have been there last year anyway, hurt this year - replaced by Keith Davis who as a safety is a great special teams player.
Greg Ellis - Is not on the field half as much as last year. Very little impact this season
T-New - Injured most of the year, torched some when he came back. He has had a terrible season by his standards.
Ken Hamlin - Utterly Invisible this season after holding out and getting paid. Actually I take that back, we can blame the Ravens game - and indirectly not being in the playoffs - almost squarely on him for missing two ridiculous tackles and dropping a fumble.
Nick Folk - Eh, its a kicker.

So basically 3 players - Ware, Witten and the kicker FOlk are on par with their "Pro Bowl" performances of last year. All of the rest have had significant downturns because of injury in some cases, or in other cases not really being all that good in the first place.

Yet this is all Romo's fault?

It's glimpses of sanity like this that keep me coming back to these boards after a loss.

 

[RESIN8]

I think Romo is a decent QB. Better than 80-85% of the QB's in the NFL. I don't know if that puts him on the list of elite though.

He may have hit the ceiling as far as potential and this might be the best we see him as a QB. He needs to learn how to keep the TO's at a minimum. There just seems to be a carelessness with the football.

I'd also like to see more passion. Sometimes I see this guy walk off the field after a pick with a smile on his face. It's just kind of disturbing to me to see this.

I say give the guy one more year, but we should try and find a better option for a backup QB than Wade Wilson. I meant Brad Johnson. Brooks Bollinger is no better. I have no clue why JJ didn't keep Matt Moore.

 

[DIAF]

Nice excuse...you have one for everything.

Having said that, they were playoff teams that Favre was on in the beginning.

At what point do you determine how much Romo contributed to the success of the Pro Bowlers on this team? Or did they do it all despite Romo? TO and Witten caught magical passes that emerged from the turf? Are you saying that the Pro Bowl means something? Are you saying the Pro Bowl dicates who the best players in the NFL are? Does having a team full of Pro Bowlers mean it is a good team? If you are saying that, then I'd say you are talking about getting rid of a one of the best players on this team, a Pro Bowl QB.

If you think like most people, then you know the Pro Bowl doesn't always mean a player is great or that the team they are on is good. This team isn't great as a team, obviously, so to suggest that Romo is playing on an outstanding team and dragging it down is dumb.

You are acting like this is just some outstanding team that would be in the Superbowl if it weren't for Romo. No, my friend, Favre was better off with the team he had.

Excuses? You want to talk about excuses? You had about a million in the other threads as to why it was EVERYONE ELSES fault EXCEPT Romo.

As far as the pro bowl goes, most people agree that if you make the probowl, generally you are doing something right. Speaks to the talent level on the team. LOL if you think those Packer teams were more talented. The only advantage they had was a better coach.

Obviously, there are some other failings surrounding this team. But play from the QB position in the month of December was one of the major ones. And it was a major one last year, and the year before that.
The only problem that tops it is the coaching on the offensive side of the ball.

Once again, great QBs carry their teams when things go south. Romo pushes the cart faster down the hill.

 

[PBJTime]

I think Romo is a decent QB. Better than 80-85% of the QB's in the NFL. I don't know if that puts him on the list of elite though.

He may have hit the ceiling as far as potential and this might be the best we might see him as a QB. He needs to learn how to keep the TO's at a minimum. There just seems to be a carelessness with the football.

I'd also like to see more passion. Sometimes I see this guy walk off the field after a pick with a smile on his face. It's just kind of disturbing to me to see this.

I say give the guy one more year, but we should try and find a better option for a backup QB than Wade Wilson. I meant Brad Johnson. Brooks Bollinger is no better. I have no clue why JJ didn't keep Matt Moore.

You may be right, but another year or two will tell us more about him. If he could even just reign in the fumbles, he'd be 100% better.

I also don't know why we didn't keep Moore.

 

[Wr3ckin_Cr3w]

I believe Romo could be great if we can find another OC. Gingers a horrible OC and him and Phillips have both coached all the talent out of this team. Get Romo a halfway-decent OC and he'll be a beast.

On another note, im honestly worried about his mental health. I'm not so sure his collapse in the showers after the game was because of the "rib injury". I'm pulling for him to get his **** together next season.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I think those of us that want to run him out of town don't want to because we think he sucks rocks, he obviously doesn't suck, but he's not someone who many of us think will ever get us to the post season and we want to hurry up and find someone who will. Obviously there's no better option at the moment, which is why JJ ought to pick a QB high and groom.

Well who's that qb? You don't have a 1st rounder. You have something with Romo. Frankly, 3 years ago i'd take this "bad season" from Romo when we were trotting out Bledsoe. If this is his sophomore slump than let's see what he does his 3rd year. That's usually when a qb is defined.


I would like to see this team develop a quarterback but not in the 1st round. Not in any 1st day drafts. I believe this team should be in the position where they just draft the best player available. If he's a quarterback take the shot. But i'd draft him to do nothing more than have him sit and learn the game. Not to take the starting spot from Romo. Fact is, we can't win without Romo and some will say we can't win with him. So where do you go? Matt Cassel? The Derek Anderson of this year?

First of all he's not a kid... He's a grown *** man, my age to be exact. I don't get a pass in my profession for being only 28.

Second of all, he turns the ball over way too much and doesn't have the pocket awareness to just take the sack or throw the damn ball away!

Well I don't like the age excuse neither but seriously I doubt you can compare your profession with that of a professional quarterback. Fact is, you can't just sit on the sideline and expect that oh because your the same age as other quarterbacks who've been starting their rookie season that you're developed as far along as they are. You have to learn on the job. You learn from your mistakes. You can't do that holding a clipboard. I dislike that age excuse only to an extent. I Don't think you can use it to excuse Romo's play but I don't think you can sit here and expect for him to be playing like he's been in the league 10 years either.

 

[PBJTime]

Excuses? You want to talk about excuses? You had about a million in the other threads as to why it was EVERYONE ELSES fault EXCEPT Romo.

As far as the pro bowl goes, most people agree that if you make the probowl, generally you are doing something right. Speaks to the talent level on the team. LOL if you think those Packer teams were more talented. The only advantage they had was a better coach.

Obviously, there are some other failings surrounding this team. But play from the QB position in the month of December was one of the major ones. And it was a major one last year, and the year before that.
The only problem that tops it is the coaching on the offensive side of the ball.

Once again, great QBs carry their teams when things go south. Romo pushes the cart faster down the hill.

You are laughing at me because I said Favre was better off on that team. You should know by now that more talented players definitely don't always equal a better team. This team has been sloppy. We are the most penalized team in the NFL. I've got news for you bud, Romo wasn't the cause of every penalty. He also wasn't the cause of, oh, those two long TD runs last week. You don't think that was a huge factor in this December collapse? Or what about Crayton's drops last year? Not Romo's fault, and again, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

What's even more funny is what I've bolded...you know, so everbody can see your idiocy. You casually dismiss that as just a minor detail. Yeah, that's it...they just had a better coach, no big deal. Are you serious? Surely you aren't...tell me you're not serious.

You talk about QB's carrying their teams. You know what, at the end of the year, only 1 QB wins the Superbowl. You could argue that all the other 31 starting QB's failed to carry their teams to the Superbowl. Or, more than half the QB's in the league failed to carry their teams to the playoffs.

Just because Romo isn't able to carry his team deep into the playoffs in his first three years as a starter doesn't make him a bad QB. Something is wrong with you.

 

[DIAF]

Well who's that qb? You don't have a 1st rounder. You have something with Romo. Frankly, 3 years ago i'd take this "bad season" from Romo when we were trotting out Bledsoe. If this is his sophomore slump than let's see what he does his 3rd year. That's usually when a qb is defined.


I would like to see this team develop a quarterback but not in the 1st round. Not in any 1st day drafts. I believe this team should be in the position where they just draft the best player available. If he's a quarterback take the shot. But i'd draft him to do nothing more than have him sit and learn the game. Not to take the starting spot from Romo. Fact is, we can't win without Romo and some will say we can't win with him. So where do you go? Matt Cassel? The Derek Anderson of this year?




Well I don't like the age excuse neither but seriously I doubt you can compare your profession with that of a professional quarterback. Fact is, you can't just sit on the sideline and expect that oh because your the same age as other quarterbacks who've been starting their rookie season that you're developed as far along as they are. You have to learn on the job. You learn from your mistakes. You can't do that holding a clipboard. I dislike that age excuse only to an extent. I Don't think you can use it to excuse Romo's play but I don't think you can sit here and expect for him to be playing like he's been in the league 10 years either.

Well, we obviously can't draft a qb high this year, but the sooner the better. Someone that will make a good nfl starter might slip to the 2nd round since there's a possibility of having a lot of decent QB prospects come out this year, but I'd rather we draft an OL or draft some depth at LB or a FS.

 

[DIAF]

You are laughing at me because I said Favre was better off on that team. You should know by now that more talented players definitely don't always equal a better team. This team has been sloppy. We are the most penalized team in the NFL. I've got news for you bud, Romo didn't wasn't the cause of every penalty. He also wasn't the cause of, oh, those two long TD runs last week. You don't think that was a huge factor in this December collapse? Or what about Crayton's drops last year? Not Romo's fault, and again, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

What's even more funny is what I've bolded...you know, so everbody can see your idiocy. You casually dismiss that as just a minor detail. Yeah, that's it...they just had a better coach, no big deal. Are you serious? Surely you aren't...tell me you're not serious.

You talk about QB's carrying their teams. You know what, at the end of the year, only 1 QB wins the Superbowl. You could argue that all the other 31 starting QB's failed to carry their teams to the Superbowl. Or, more than half the QB's in the league failed to carry their teams to the playoffs.

Just because Romo isn't able to carry his team deep into the playoffs in his first three years as a starter doesn't make him a bad QB. Something is wrong with you.

haha.

Ok, to the bolded parts....

Last week - Those two long late TD runs by the Ravens shouldnt have even been an issue had Romo's poor play not put us squarely in the position in the first place. He was what, 9-20 with 75 yards and an INT in the first half? Not to mention the Steelers game. Had Romo not given that game away, we wouldn't have even started in on the Ravens debacle. Pathetic. Much like your attempt at a GOTCHA here.

Coaching - It wasn't casually dismissed, it was mentioned as the ONLY advantage that team has over us. It's not like the team was better IN EVERY WAY like you allege. It's better in one aspect. I made no attempt to assign any value to that aspect.

Carrying a team - no, it doesn't make him a "bad" qb. However, when things go bad Romo gets WORSE. Plenty of QBs carry their teams and still lose, but they at least play well. Romo doesn't. We needed to go 3-1 or 2-2 in the final month, and we ended up going 1-3 and two of the losses were directly attributable to the play of the offense and most specifically of the QB.

 

[PBJTime]

haha.

Ok, to the bolded parts....

Last week - Those two long late TD runs by the Ravens shouldnt have even been an issue had Romo's poor play not put us squarely in the position in the first place. He was what, 9-20 with 75 yards and an INT in the first half? Pathetic. Much like your attempt at a GOTCHA here.

Coaching - It wasn't casually dismissed, it was mentioned as the ONLY advantage that team has over us. It's not like the team was better IN EVERY WAY like you allege. It's better in one aspect. I made no attempt to assign any value to that aspect.

Carrying a team - no, it doesn't make him a "bad" qb. However, when things go bad Romo gets WORSE. Plenty of QBs carry their teams and still lose, but they at least play well. Romo doesn't.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda. The fact is, they WERE an issue. You can't just make up your own idea of how the game should have went. They DID matter and our defense let us down massively. Romo was not out there on defense. The defense has the responsibility to stop the other team from scoring...period. No excuses from you, boob.

To your second point, coaching can make all the difference in the world. We are lacking severely in this department. The fact is, our team is not nearly as great as the sum of it's parts...period. You could try to argue that, I guess, but you'd look like even more of a fool. That Packers team was a playoff caliber team. There's no way you can minimize that. They were what they were...period.

I don't think many QB's could succeed in the situations Romo has been put in. Maybe some of the elite could, I don't know, but I'm sure many couldn't. He has been knocked down constantly lately.

You are still avoiding the Crayton drops from last year. That could easily have been the difference in whether or not we would be having this conversation. Those were squarely on Crayton. He was a HUGE reason for our "collapse" last year.

 

[DIAF]

Coulda, shoulda, woulda. The fact is, they WERE an issue. You can't just make up your own idea of how the game should have went. They DID matter and our defense let us down massively. Romo was not out there on defense. The defense has the responsibility to stop the other team from scoring...period. No excuses from you, boob.

To your second point, coaching can make all the difference in the world. We are lacking severely in this department. The fact is, our team is not nearly as great as the sum of it's parts...period. You could try to argue that, I guess, but you'd look like even more of a fool. That Packers team was a playoff caliber team. There's no way you can minimize that. They were what they were...period.

I don't think many QB's could succeed in the situations Romo has been put in. Maybe some of the elite could, I don't know, but I'm sure many couldn't. He has been knocked down constantly lately.

You are still avoiding the Crayton drops from last year. That could easily have been the difference in whether or not we would be having this conversation. Those were squarely on Crayton. He was a HUGE reason for our "collapse" last year.

haha, wow. You completely ignore Romo's crappy play and blame the defense for this late season collapse. Wow.

And you are still making excuses. "Romo can't succeed in the situations he has been put in". "CRAYTON DROPS". It's everything BUT Romo with you. Romo can do no wrong. In Romo we trust. Romo is my God.

 

[PBJTime]

haha, wow. You completely ignore Romo's crappy play and blame the defense for this late season collapse. Wow.

And you are still making excuses. "Romo can't succeed in the situations he has been put in". "CRAYTON DROPS". It's everything BUT Romo with you. Romo can do no wrong. In Romo we trust. Romo is my God.

He has played poorly. I'm not calling for him to be cut though. Do you read what I just wrote? I acknowledge he is to blame for quite a bit. I've even bolded that for you so you can get it into that cranium of yours.

Having said that, the defense has been FAR from blameless. It seems as if you are suggesting that and that is laughable. It really speaks volumes of your ignorance. And are you also suggesting that Crayton didn't drop some HUGE passes last year? Is he also blameless in your eyes? What can a QB do if they put passes on the money and they are dropped? Is that really Romo's fault? Man, your ignorance baffles me. I just can't believe what I'm reading sometimes.

You also hold the o-line blameless too, I suppose. Romo should be able to overcome running for his life on 75% of the plays, I guess. You'll accept nothing less, right? You'll accept nothing less than a Superbowl win in a QB's 3rd season. LOL. You really do sound silly.

Good night, I have to work and I'm tired of arguing with somebody who honestly has no clue. It's like arguing with a teenager.