TNF: Rams at 49ers

[Blackspider214]

Fully agree and that's exactly why you don't pay quarterbacks like Dak, Purdy and Cousins. As in solid bus drivers without the ability to be the game changer and reason why a team can win a game unlike Mahomes, Allen, Burrow and Jackson. You only pay the elite guys. Dak is not elite. Arguably Herbert should be added to the above list as well.

Josh Allen? Lamar Jackson? Lol. Neither have accomplished anything.

 

[CowboyoWales]

Josh Allen? Lamar Jackson? Lol. Neither have accomplished anything.

Well it's all competitive, against Mahomes-no, but compared to Dak-yes

 

[gimmesix]

I don’t think that guys like Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Geno Smith, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott, Alex Smith, Brock Purdy, Jimmy G, etc, etc are scarce material.

Certainly there are a lot of QBs in this league who should not be considered franchise QBs. I don't know if I'd completely agree with your list. For example, I think San Francisco would consider Purdy as one of them because he has led a team that made it to the Super Bowl and his numbers overall have been very good, even if he's having a "down year" this year. The 49ers understand that they've had some injury struggles that have affected his play. They also understand the price of trying to find a franchise QB, considering Trey Lance.

I think fans' view of the QB position is different than coaches/GMs. Right now, Tampa would consider Mayfield scarce material. Minnesota would consider Darnold scarce material. And Dallas considers Prescott scarce material. I mean, each team knows even if you are drafting QBs early in the first round, it could turn out like it did in 2021 when Lawrence, Wilson and Lance were the first players taken ... like happens every year when QBs may not be the best player in the draft but are taken at the top because of the scarcity of franchise QBs.

 

[Blitzen]

Certainly there are a lot of QBs in this league who should not be considered franchise QBs. I don't know if I'd completely agree with your list. For example, I think San Francisco would consider Purdy as one of them because he has led a team that made it to the Super Bowl and his numbers overall have been very good, even if he's having a "down year" this year. The 49ers understand that they've had some injury struggles that have affected his play. They also understand the price of trying to find a franchise QB, considering Trey Lance.

I think fans' view of the QB position is different than coaches/GMs. Right now, Tampa would consider Mayfield scarce material. Minnesota would consider Darnold scarce material. And Dallas considers Prescott scarce material. I mean, each team knows even if you are drafting QBs early in the first round, it could turn out like it did in 2021 when Lawrence, Wilson and Lance were the first players taken ... like happens every year when QBs may not be the best player in the draft but are taken at the top because of the scarcity of franchise QBs.

I think you are missing my overall point. Lawrence and Wilson went to awful franchises with poor coaching. I’m not sure how they would fare with SF instead of Lance. SF acted as aggressively as they could after the absurd pandemic season-plus they did not trust Jimmy G could stay healthy and I think they felt they had a good chance to upgrade (and might not get another chance for a long time). The general fact that GMs and head coaches have so little rope to succeed drives rash decisions and forced QB picks-they sign them to extensions in the hope of mediocre to good regular season success because actual rebuilds are not allowed for most coaches that have been with a franchise for 2-3 years. If anyone within the Cowboys’ franchise still views Prescott as a “franchise” QB, reality is about to teach them a lesson worth knowing.

Plus if Mayfield and Darnold can suddenly be seen as scarce material after a year on a better squad, it says more about their previous rosters and coaches rather than themselves. They did not become franchise material overnight, otherwise the label is completely meaningless.

 

[gimmesix]

I think you are missing my overall point. Lawrence and Wilson went to awful franchises with poor coaching. I’m not sure how they would fare with SF instead of Lance. SF acted as aggressively as they could after the absurd pandemic season-plus they did not trust Jimmy G could stay healthy and I think they felt they had a good chance to upgrade (and might not get another chance for a long time). The general fact that GMs and head coaches have so little rope to succeed drives rash decisions and forced QB picks-they sign them to extensions in the hope of mediocre to good regular season success because actual rebuilds are not allowed for most coaches that have been with a franchise for 2-3 years. If anyone within the Cowboys’ franchise still views Prescott as a “franchise” QB, reality is about to teach them a lesson worth knowing.

Plus if Mayfield and Darnold can suddenly be seen as scarce material after a year on a better squad, it says more about their previous rosters and coaches rather than themselves. They did not become franchise material overnight, otherwise the label is completely meaningless.

Mayfield has a 101.4 rating. He's completed 70.4 percent of his passes with 28 TDs and 13 ints. I think Tampa considers itself very lucky to have had the opportunity to get him.

Same with Darnold in Minnesota (108.4, 68.4, 28, 10).

Of course, teams understand that rosters and coaches affect QB play. They understand that much better than fans, that a QB cannot succeed in a vacuum. Right now, both Mayfield and Darnold are succeeding, though, and I believe their teams would consider them franchise material because there are a whole lot of QBs out there who might not be excelling in the same situation.

Mayfield agreed to a three-year contract this year that will pay him $35 million next year and $45 million the following year. The only reason he didn't get more is because of his play before signing with Tampa. Darnold will get more than that when he resigns with Minnesota next year (he's on a one-year deal).

 

[DFWJC]

After the exhausting shootout win vs the Bills on Sunday Night, I really did assume that on the very short week the Rams would fall to the 49ers in San Fran.

Sloppy game--especially in the first half--but they prevailed.

I still think their margin of error is too slim to run all the way thru the playoffs.
But they have proven that they can beat any team they face....just maybe not 3-4 good teams in a row.
SF is not good right now, btw


They've won 7 of last 9, so playing good ball

 

[Blitzen]

Mayfield has a 101.4 rating. He's completed 70.4 percent of his passes with 28 TDs and 13 ints. I think Tampa considers itself very lucky to have had the opportunity to get him.

Same with Darnold in Minnesota (108.4, 68.4, 28, 10).

Of course, teams understand that rosters and coaches affect QB play. They understand that much better than fans, that a QB cannot succeed in a vacuum. Right now, both Mayfield and Darnold are succeeding, though, and I believe their teams would consider them franchise material because there are a whole lot of QBs out there who might not be excelling in the same situation.

Mayfield agreed to a three-year contract this year that will pay him $35 million next year and $45 million the following year. The only reason he didn't get more is because of his play before signing with Tampa. Darnold will get more than that when he resigns with Minnesota next year (he's on a one-year deal).

We are coming full circle. My premise is the “franchise” label is a crock. The two examples we are speaking of highlight it. Many teams did not see the point in investing much in either QB. Mayfield rightly had to take a discount based on play with previous teams.

Since the teams must go by the stats that a QB put up with a better squad that likely inflates his numbers—it’s a crock that other QB’s that are just as capable put up lesser stats with lesser rosters (and are then labeled bust or backup material). The media markets the easy storyline-because Manning vs Brady sounds better than Freeney vs Light. “Franchise” (or capable NFL starter) QBs are far less scarce than pundits make them out to be. Otherwise you would not see 4 time retreads like Darnold having the season he is. You can find 4-5 capable starting QB’s like this in any garden variety draft. You can only find 0-1 elite QB every 4-5 drafts.

Just draft another Purdy if you are SF. Darnold looked very capable in the snaps he got with them last year. Jimmy G went to two NFCCG and a SB with them. Lance was a fluke because they felt like swinging for the fences plus he hardly played in college because of the pandemic.

 

[gimmesix]

QBs are far less scarce than pundits make them out to be. Otherwise you would not see 4 time retreads like Darnold having the season he is.

Players like Darnold are retread because of the scarcity of quality QBs. Now, he'll be paid like a franchise QB if he continues having the season he's having.

I don't think we really disagree on a lot of this. The "franchise" label certainly isn't what broadcasters make it out to be. I just believe it is applied because it is hard to find a QB you believe is capable to leading your team to a Super Bowl. Once you find one, you pay them because it might be a while before you find one again. You seem to think they are a dime a dozen, but the evidence doesn't bear that out.

Again, I'll use the 2021 Draft as an example. You had Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, Justin Fields and Mac Jones taken in the first round. Only Lawrence has proven worthy of a second contract. Kyle Trask, Kellen Mond and Davis Mills were taken in the second round. Trask has 11 pass attempts in his career so far. Mond has three. Mills was so good as a starter that the Texans used a first-round pick on C.J. Stroud.

That's 1 QB out of 8 that could be considered a quality starter/franchise QB. 1 of 8 equals scarcity. But maybe one of those other seven will experience a Mayfield/Darnold renaissance before their careers are over ... and get to be a franchise QB all over again.

 

[Blitzen]

Players like Darnold are retread because of the scarcity of quality QBs. Now, he'll be paid like a franchise QB if he continues having the season he's having.

I don't think we really disagree on a lot of this. The "franchise" label certainly isn't what broadcasters make it out to be. I just believe it is applied because it is hard to find a QB you believe is capable to leading your team to a Super Bowl. Once you find one, you pay them because it might be a while before you find one again. You seem to think they are a dime a dozen, but the evidence doesn't bear that out.

Again, I'll use the 2021 Draft as an example. You had Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, Justin Fields and Mac Jones taken in the first round. Only Lawrence has proven worthy of a second contract. Kyle Trask, Kellen Mond and Davis Mills were taken in the second round. Trask has 11 pass attempts in his career so far. Mond has three. Mills was so good as a starter that the Texans used a first-round pick on C.J. Stroud.

That's 1 QB out of 8 that could be considered a quality starter/franchise QB. 1 of 8 equals scarcity. But maybe one of those other seven will experience a Mayfield/Darnold renaissance before their careers are over ... and get to be a franchise QB all over again.

Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, and Baker all got the bridesmaid franchise QB contract. Not nearly as much guaranteed money or years as Dak got.

It’s the difference between dating and marriage.

Again. My stance is there is a scarcity of teams that can put good enough rosters together that would allow some of those 7/8 QB’s to succeed. Brock Purdy is a result of an amazing SF squad. He’s just a stable presence that understands how to operate the offense called. It’s not special or scarce. SF’s surrounding roster is special and scarce. Same with Jalen Hurts and Philadelphia. Put Jalen on Tennessee from this season and they likely have the exact same record and he would like garbage.