TO Attacked the O till it became a joke

sacase

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Hostile;2679249 said:
We are going to be a better team without that sack of crap.

Well i am going to put it like this. TO was a great player, we should not have cut him. TO came to play which is what I can say more than many other players on the team.

What should have happend was we take a serious look at Romo. He had 21 turnovers. That is more than 7 NFL TEAMS had total. He had 7 Fumbles lost, which is more than 5 NFL TEAMS had. Honestly, we need to draft Romo's replacement this year.

Perhaps why the defense liked TO better than Romo is that TO wasn't constantly turning the ball over and putting them in poor positions. Romo's cavilier attitude about ball security has done far more damage to this team than TO ever did. Romo and his, lack of ball security and RHG lack of imagination are truly disheartening.

I like TO, I like what he brings to the Table. RW11 hasn't shown he can even produce close to the level of TO. I hope this move was for the best. However, I am not sure that it is. I will always support the team, but I think we have take a step back. I would have waited one more year with TO before releasing him.

Honestly, Hos, I am a bit suprised that you called TO a sack of crap. On the field he produced, he practiced hard. His "TO" media personality may have caused some problems, but on a personal level he seems to be a very compassionate and stand up guy. There are a lot more people on this team I would call sacks of crap before I would call TO that.
 

CF74

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sacase;2680792 said:
What should have happend was we take a serious look at Romo. He had 21 turnovers.

How many of those were forcing the ball to TO? or waiting for TO to get open? 60%? 80%? It's over 50% I'm sure...
 

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CowboyFan74;2680806 said:
How many of those were forcing the ball to TO? or waiting for TO to get open? 60%? 80%? It's over 50% I'm sure...

no need to even put a number on it. it was WAAAY too many.

even if someone wants to blame Romo or Red for forcing things well now that crutch is gone :)
 

sacase

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CowboyFan74;2680806 said:
How many of those were forcing the ball to TO? or waiting for TO to get open? 60%? 80%? It's over 50% I'm sure...

Excuses for Romo huh? Figures. It amazes me why some players are responsible for their actions and others are not. Romo made the decisions to throw the ball, no one else.
 

MWILL

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CowboyFan74;2680628 said:
So Jerry takes a $10Million loss while building a $Billion stadium because the "media" wore him down with fictitious stories??????:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

The story about players being late to aboard the plane was false.

The story about the "fight between T.O. and Witten" was false.

This crap was printed on paper and talked about on TV. You can't trust all sources and journalist.

I'm not saying the media was the "sole" reason but they did their part.
 

Hostile

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sacase;2680792 said:
Well i am going to put it like this. TO was a great player, we should not have cut him. TO came to play which is what I can say more than many other players on the team.

What should have happend was we take a serious look at Romo. He had 21 turnovers. That is more than 7 NFL TEAMS had total. He had 7 Fumbles lost, which is more than 5 NFL TEAMS had. Honestly, we need to draft Romo's replacement this year.

Perhaps why the defense liked TO better than Romo is that TO wasn't constantly turning the ball over and putting them in poor positions. Romo's cavilier attitude about ball security has done far more damage to this team than TO ever did. Romo and his, lack of ball security and RHG lack of imagination are truly disheartening.

I like TO, I like what he brings to the Table. RW11 hasn't shown he can even produce close to the level of TO. I hope this move was for the best. However, I am not sure that it is. I will always support the team, but I think we have take a step back. I would have waited one more year with TO before releasing him.

Honestly, Hos, I am a bit suprised that you called TO a sack of crap. On the field he produced, he practiced hard. His "TO" media personality may have caused some problems, but on a personal level he seems to be a very compassionate and stand up guy. There are a lot more people on this team I would call sacks of crap before I would call TO that.
99 times out of 100, I am going to agree with your posts. Not this time. When I am reading the stuff about the locker room like is in the first 2 posts...he had to go. Had to. There was no other choice.

You can replace WR production a hell of a lot easier than QB production. That is a fact of life in the NFL, and you know that. I'm not telling you anything revolutionary here.

I have said many times that TO is a great player. That will be completely forgotten over the next few months even if I say it again and and again and again. I said it long before he came to the Cowboys and I will be saying long after he's gone. On the field, great player.

I got to talk to the man twice to thank him for the football camp and meeting the 5 boys we sent over the 2 years we sponsored kids going to his Camp. I think he genuinely is a nice guy. I admire any man who will do that for kids. That's going to be forgotten over the next few months even if I say it again and again and again.

I never wanted us to sign TO. I have never bashed him for his production on the field other than to say he dropped passes he should have caught. I even went so far this off season on several occasions to say that my one hope if he stays is that Roy Williams learns from him because of how hard he works. That will be forgotten over the next few months.

I defended him against Bill Parcells over the "The Player" stuff. I felt that was terribly disrespectful. That will be forgotten.

I am a football purist. I do not apologize for that. It is who I am and I am too stubborn to change. This team needed TO in 2006. I cannot deny it. There was a dearth of talent and we needed a shot in the arm. He provided that shot. He promised Jerry Jones "I will not let you down." He promised he had learned from his past mistakes. Apparently he didn't.

I don't care what anyone's opinion of Jason Garrett is, if you condone a player openly bragging that he told a coach to his face that he does not respect him, then we are nto goign to agree with each other on that topic. I could not stand Bruce Read. I will not condone Bobby Carpenter or Keith Davis or Crotch Rocket bragging to the team that he disrespected Bruce Read.

No matter what you think of a Coach on the staff, they deserve the respect of the players and that was open, blatant disrespect and Owens is a piece of crap for first saying that to one of his coaches after he promised Jerry he would not let him down and he had learned from hsi past mistakes, and he compounded the size of the piece of crap by bragging to teammates that he had done it.

I cannot respect and will not respect a man who divides a locker room. Understand something, I am someone who considers a locker room a sacred place. Not secret, sacred. There are guys on my college team that I did not like. I would never disrespect those guys in the locker room. There were coaches I did not like. I would never disrespect them in the locker room.

Owens felt he was bigger than the team. No he's not. He can feel that way in Buffalo and good luck to that piece of crap. He disrespected the Dallas Cowboys locker room and I will not shut my festering gob about how little respect I have for that.

Tony Romo does need to cut down on the mistakes. I agree with you on that. But I will take Tony Romo and his mistakes over TO's locker room division prima donna piece of crap act any day of the week and twice on game days. I will not miss him. I appreciate his 3 years here. I wish he had truly learned from his past mistakes. I thank him again for the football camps and the treatment of our boys who went.

He's gone. The mood in Big D will change and this will be a better team. It still is a team sport despite what Madden 2009 teaches the gamers. Give me 11 guys who believe in each other over 10 guys trying to please 1 guy who believes in himself.
 

sacase

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Hostile;2680831 said:
99 times out of 100, I am going to agree with your posts. Not this time. When I am reading the stuff about the locker room like is in the first 2 posts...he had to go. Had to. There was no other choice.

You can replace WR production a hell of a lot easier than QB production. That is a fact of life in the NFL, and you know that. I'm not telling you anything revolutionary here.

I have said many times that TO is a great player. That will be completely forgotten over the next few months even if I say it again and and again and again. I said it long before he came to the Cowboys and I will be saying long after he's gone. On the field, great player.

I got to talk to the man twice to thank him for the football camp and meeting the 5 boys we sent over the 2 years we sponsored kids going to his Camp. I think he genuinely is a nice guy. I admire any man who will do that for kids. That's going to be forgotten over the next few months even if I say it again and again and again.

I never wanted us to sign TO. I have never bashed him for his production on the field other than to say he dropped passes he should have caught. I even went so far this off season on several occasions to say that my one hope if he stays is that Roy Williams learns from him because of how hard he works. That will be forgotten over the next few months.

I defended him against Bill Parcells over the "The Player" stuff. I felt that was terribly disrespectful. That will be forgotten.

I am a football purist. I do not apologize for that. It is who I am and I am too stubborn to change. This team needed TO in 2006. I cannot deny it. There was a dearth of talent and we needed a shot in the arm. He provided that shot. He promised Jerry Jones "I will not let you down." He promised he had learned from his past mistakes. Apparently he didn't.

I don't care what anyone's opinion of Jason Garrett is, if you condone a player openly bragging that he told a coach to his face that he does not respect him, then we are nto goign to agree with each other on that topic. I could not stand Bruce Read. I will not condone Bobby Carpenter or Keith Davis or Crotch Rocket bragging to the team that he disrespected Bruce Read.

No matter what you think of a Coach on the staff, they deserve the respect of the players and that was open, blatant disrespect and Owens is a piece of crap for first saying that to one of his coaches after he promised Jerry he would not let him down and he had learned from hsi past mistakes, and he compounded the size of the piece of crap by bragging to teammates that he had done it.

I cannot respect and will not respect a man who divides a locker room. Understand something, I am someone who considers a locker room a sacred place. Not secret, sacred. There are guys on my college team that I did not like. I would never disrespect those guys in the locker room. There were coaches I did not like. I would never disrespect them in the locker room.

Owens felt he was bigger than the team. No he's not. He can feel that way in Buffalo and good luck to that piece of crap. He disrespected the Dallas Cowboys locker room and I will not shut my festering gob about how little respect I have for that.

Tony Romo does need to cut down on the mistakes. I agree with you on that. But I will take Tony Romo and his mistakes over TO's locker room division prima donna piece of crap act any day of the week and twice on game days. I will not miss him. I appreciate his 3 years here. I wish he had truly learned from his past mistakes. I thank him again for the football camps and the treatment of our boys who went.

He's gone. The mood in Big D will change and this will be a better team. It still is a team sport despite what Madden 2009 teaches the gamers. Give me 11 guys who believe in each other over 10 guys trying to please 1 guy who believes in himself.

We are going to have to disagree on this Hostile. Do coaches deserve respect? Of course they do. There is no disagreement on that. However, respect is earned and if you do things to compromise that respect then you lose it. However, that does not excuse TO bragging about having no respect for coaches. He should have kept that either to himself or it should have stayed in the locker room. There was so much stuff that happend in that locker room that should have stayed there. Whoever the players were that were listening for secrets and running to the media to tell them honestly need to be let go. That kind of enviroment builds distrust amongst players. The media had far more access to events that should have stayed in the locker room than was needed.

I am not excusing TO's behavior, but I too have been in locker rooms where were I didn't like other players or other players had serious beef with other players. Hell, myself and a fellow reciever got into a fight because he tried to sexually assult my GF at the time. Obviously, I didn't respect him at all after that. Some players didn't like coaches, that is the nature of the beast, but at least everything stayed in house and was handled in house.

What you get with Owens is a guy who is brutally honest and lacks tact. I think you are going to see more problems like this is the future with other players, not only on this team but in the NFL in General. In college, you really can't speak your mind to the coaches. Say something disrespectfull and they will pull your scholorship. These days in the NFL, owners have invested so much money into players, that a player can mouth off to a coach and very little is going to happen, thanks in part to the money involved and the NFL players union.

Will the team get better? Eventually. I just wouldn't expect it this year. I am not exactly thrilled that about this team for the coming season. Maybe the draft will change my mind. I can see things being very good to very bad. I honestly can't gauge things right now, but my gut is telling me it won't be good. I hope I am wrong.

The problem with letting TO gone is that you still don't have 22 guys who believe in each other, much less 11. This team is still highly fractured. Now that TO is gone who is going to be the next target for the Media to take down. Romo? RW11? James?

Personally, I Don't care what someone does on their own time. I just expect things in the locker room to stay there and I expect players to come out and give 100% in practice and in games. None of those things are happening and I don't think that TO was the cause of it. I think the problems run much deeper than TO. The media and fans use him as a scapegoat because its so easy. Not saying he was pefect because he did have his issues. But he was an easy mark.
 

Hostile

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sacase;2680897 said:
We are going to have to disagree on this Hostile. Do coaches deserve respect? Of course they do. There is no disagreement on that. However, respect is earned and if you do things to compromise that respect then you lose it. However, that does not excuse TO bragging about having no respect for coaches. He should have kept that either to himself or it should have stayed in the locker room. There was so much stuff that happend in that locker room that should have stayed there. Whoever the players were that were listening for secrets and running to the media to tell them honestly need to be let go. That kind of enviroment builds distrust amongst players. The media had far more access to events that should have stayed in the locker room than was needed.
I am kind of shocked at this given your military background. I have no issue with someone questioning a superior. I do have an issue when you thump your chest about it.

I am not excusing TO's behavior, but I too have been in locker rooms where were I didn't like other players or other players had serious beef with other players. Hell, myself and a fellow reciever got into a fight because he tried to sexually assult my GF at the time. Obviously, I didn't respect him at all after that. Some players didn't like coaches, that is the nature of the beast, but at least everything stayed in house and was handled in house.
Which is exactly the problem. He takes stuff out of the house. I can't respect that.

What you get with Owens is a guy who is brutally honest and lacks tact. I think you are going to see more problems like this is the future with other players, not only on this team but in the NFL in General. In college, you really can't speak your mind to the coaches. Say something disrespectfull and they will pull your scholorship. These days in the NFL, owners have invested so much money into players, that a player can mouth off to a coach and very little is going to happen, thanks in part to the money involved and the NFL players union.
And I will not respect those players when they do that, exactly the same as I don't respect him for doing it.

Will the team get better? Eventually. I just wouldn't expect it this year. I am not exactly thrilled that about this team for the coming season. Maybe the draft will change my mind. I can see things being very good to very bad. I honestly can't gauge things right now, but my gut is telling me it won't be good. I hope I am wrong.
I expect immediate results.

The problem with letting TO gone is that you still don't have 22 guys who believe in each other, much less 11. This team is still highly fractured. Now that TO is gone who is going to be the next target for the Media to take down. Romo? RW11? James?
I do not believe this team is still fractured. Pacman is gone, Owens is gone. Brad Johnson is gone. Tank will not be brought back. Even Roy Williams, a good guy but a media target, is gone.

Personally, I Don't care what someone does on their own time. I just expect things in the locker room to stay there and I expect players to come out and give 100% in practice and in games. None of those things are happening and I don't think that TO was the cause of it. I think the problems run much deeper than TO. The media and fans use him as a scapegoat because its so easy. Not saying he was pefect because he did have his issues. But he was an easy mark.
I know TO was the cause of it or he would still be here.
 

sacase

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Hostile;2680921 said:
I am kind of shocked at this given your military background. I have no issue with someone questioning a superior. I do have an issue when you thump your chest about it.

Trust me Hos, I have seen far worse things with military leadership than anything TO pulled. Once again, the big thing was keep it in house. Someone may ask you a question about a person and you just deflect it and withhold comment. That usually says enough to people. Like I said, it should have been kept in house. However, TO was not the only one taking it out of the lockerroom.

Which is exactly the problem. He takes stuff out of the house. I can't respect that.

And I will not respect those players when they do that, exactly the same as I don't respect him for doing it.

As do many other players on this team.
I expect immediate results.
Always the eternal optomist, huh?

I do not believe this team is still fractured. Pacman is gone, Owens is gone. Brad Johnson is gone. Tank will not be brought back. Even Roy Williams, a good guy but a media target, is gone.

I know TO was the cause of it or he would still be here.

Once agian TO was the low hanging fruit, his personality made it easy. There are other players such as Romo, Carpenter, James and Ellis who are still problem children.
 

Hostile

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sacase;2680946 said:
Trust me Hos, I have seen far worse things with military leadership than anything TO pulled. Once again, the big thing was keep it in house. Someone may ask you a question about a person and you just deflect it and withhold comment. That usually says enough to people. Like I said, it should have been kept in house. However, TO was not the only one taking it out of the lockerroom.
I am sure you have. It's the difference between life and death vs. just a game.

The fact it was not kept in house is why I am glad he is gone. It is really just that simple.

As do many other players on this team.
I think you will find that I am pretty consistent when they do that.

Always the eternal optomist, huh?
No, not really. I consider myself a realist. Last year I did not expect us to beat Philly to end the season. I said as much before the game.

I think the collective sigh of relief will get a very talented group of guys focused on football. A talented and focused team is a good team. We were not a good team because we were not focused on football. We were talented, and talent alone is not enough.

Once agian TO was the low hanging fruit, his personality made it easy. There are other players such as Romo, Carpenter, James and Ellis who are still problem children.
I simply don't agree with this. I want Ellis gone, but it is entirely about his age and the 5 million in cap savings. I am not a Greg Ellis fan but I don't believe he ever put himself above the team. I do not believe he ever went to Wade or B-stew and told them to their face that he did not respect them and then went around the locker room to crow about what he had done.

I don't believe James, Carpenter, or Romo did that either.

I cannot respect that. I will not respect it and I will not sugar coat it or condone it or ratify it or whatever other semantic superlative floats people's boats.

The minute you make it about yourself above the team you're no longer valuable to the team. In Buffalo they need to get their snow cones ready. he will not make a difference there unless it is a negative one. Point blank, he was a bad teammate and they trimmed the fat.

Good move. The team will benefit.
 

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Unquestionably, Romo's play need to be scrutinized closely next season, and he needs to be held accountable. However, I will give Romo the benefit of a doubt over TO because Romo does not have TO's history of divisive behavior and he hasn't been kicked off three teams.

History is a very important consideration here.
 

sacase

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Hostile;2680974 said:
I am sure you have. It's the difference between life and death vs. just a game.

The fact it was not kept in house is why I am glad he is gone. It is really just that simple.

I think you will find that I am pretty consistent when they do that.

No, not really. I consider myself a realist. Last year I did not expect us to beat Philly to end the season. I said as much before the game.

I think the collective sigh of relief will get a very talented group of guys focused on football. A talented and focused team is a good team. We were not a good team because we were not focused on football. We were talented, and talent alone is not enough.

I simply don't agree with this. I want Ellis gone, but it is entirely about his age and the 5 million in cap savings. I am not a Greg Ellis fan but I don't believe he ever put himself above the team. I do not believe he ever went to Wade or B-stew and told them to their face that he did not respect them and then went around the locker room to crow about what he had done.

I don't believe James, Carpenter, or Romo did that either.

I cannot respect that. I will not respect it and I will not sugar coat it or condone it or ratify it or whatever other semantic superlative floats people's boats.

The minute you make it about yourself above the team you're no longer valuable to the team. In Buffalo they need to get their snow cones ready. he will not make a difference there unless it is a negative one. Point blank, he was a bad teammate and they trimmed the fat.

Good move. The team will benefit.

Well, the excuses are gone, we will see how much of an effect TO had on the team.
 

Hostile

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sacase;2681010 said:
Well, the excuses are gone, we will see how much of an effect TO had on the team.
I disagree. The excuses will always exist. The reasons are gone.
 

CF74

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sacase;2680817 said:
Excuses for Romo huh? Figures. It amazes me why some players are responsible for their actions and others are not. Romo made the decisions to throw the ball, no one else.

Typically things that end with [?] are questions, not statements. I'm still searching for facts as are many others that are honest with themselves.

The problems with the offense were as follows:

Injuries resulting in Poor O-line play, which resulted in more injuries, mix in a frustrated TO making everybody miserable alla Jeremy Shockey and everyone else starts to make mistakes. Maybe if the injuries didn't start to pile up TO wouldn't have been such a pain in the *** because we'd have been winning, or if Garrett called a different game plan things would be different, but TO's antics was a kill joy.

Yeah Romo made mistakes and he's responsible for his own actions but his Vet receiver should have been more supportive and should have filled in the gaps like the leader he portrayed himself to be. Instead he made those gaps a chasm. I also hold Garrett responsible for not controlling TO. Many say Jerry was the enabler of the tantrums, that is a whole different issue that hasn't really been discussed. No there was plenty of blame and short comings to go around but when your vet is acting like a child, it doesn't help. $10Million scapegoat, yeah right....
 

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CowboyFan74;2681735 said:
Typically things that end with [?] are questions, not statements. I'm still searching for facts as are many others that are honest with themselves.

The problems with the offense were as follows:

Injuries resulting in Poor O-line play, which resulted in more injuries, mix in a frustrated TO making everybody miserable alla Jeremy Shockey and everyone else starts to make mistakes. Maybe if the injuries didn't start to pile up TO wouldn't have been such a pain in the *** because we'd have been winning, or if Garrett called a different game plan things would be different, but TO's antics was a kill joy.

Yeah Romo made mistakes and he's responsible for his own actions but his Vet receiver should have been more supportive and should have filled in the gaps like the leader he portrayed himself to be. Instead he made those gaps a chasm. I also hold Garrett responsible for not controlling TO. Many say Jerry was the enabler of the tantrums, that is a whole different issue that hasn't really been discussed. No there was plenty of blame and short comings to go around but when your vet is acting like a child, it doesn't help. $10Million scapegoat, yeah right....
Individuals like Terrell Owens cannot be controlled by others or comply to other's wishes and requests. They will only abide to those things which they agree with for personal gain.
 

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DallasEast;2681748 said:
Individuals like Terrell Owens cannot be controlled by others or comply to other's wishes and requests. They will only abide to those things which they agree with for personal gain.

I realize that but Garrett was his coach and he failed TO. A great leader rallies the troops or he takes em out:D
 

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CowboyFan74;2681755 said:
I realize that but Garrett was his coach and he failed TO. A great leader rallies the troops or he takes em out:D
The man bragged that he told Garrett to his face that he didn't respect him. Nothing he did was going to be good enough.

Here's a serious question, how long before there is media speculation that the reason Tony Romo was instructing the WRs where to go was because they were sandbagging plays to make Garrett look bad?
 

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TO is a POS, plain and simple. A grown man who hasn't changed or matured in the last 10 years....only gotten worse. Glad he's going to Buffalo where he'll cause alot of crud there. Glad your gone PUNK!
 

sacase

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CowboyFan74;2681735 said:
Typically things that end with [?] are questions, not statements. I'm still searching for facts as are many others that are honest with themselves.

The problems with the offense were as follows:

Injuries resulting in Poor O-line play, which resulted in more injuries, mix in a frustrated TO making everybody miserable alla Jeremy Shockey and everyone else starts to make mistakes. Maybe if the injuries didn't start to pile up TO wouldn't have been such a pain in the *** because we'd have been winning, or if Garrett called a different game plan things would be different, but TO's antics was a kill joy.

Yeah Romo made mistakes and he's responsible for his own actions but his Vet receiver should have been more supportive and should have filled in the gaps like the leader he portrayed himself to be. Instead he made those gaps a chasm. I also hold Garrett responsible for not controlling TO. Many say Jerry was the enabler of the tantrums, that is a whole different issue that hasn't really been discussed. No there was plenty of blame and short comings to go around but when your vet is acting like a child, it doesn't help. $10Million scapegoat, yeah right....

I have come to realize on message boards when people try to attack spelling and grammer, their argument is really weak. Communication has taken place, you understood what was said, this is not a academic setting.

Once again, even when the Oline was not hurt, Romo still had 21 turnovers the pervious year. He had 16 when he started 10 games! Romo accounts for 58 turnovers in the past 39 games. Romo...by himself....58 turnovers. That is a very serious problem. Hell Jason Candle only has 32 in a similar amount of games. Quincy carter has 45 Turnovers in 34 games which is 5 short of Romo. Hopefull that gives you a idea of how serious romo's turnover problem is.

Let's get to the root of the problems it starts with the QB position.
 
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