Today in Dallas Cowboys History - Dez Caught It!

gtb1943 said:
The moment this whole 'football move' garbage was invented, nothing good was ever going to come from it
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NFL: Dez didn't complete a football move.

Fans: What's a football move then?

NFL: A football move is something Dez didn't do. Case closed

Fans: There you have it. It was the correct call.
 
gtb1943 said:
The moment this whole 'football move' garbage was invented, nothing good was ever going to come from it
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True. I can understand why it happened, though. Was watching a Cowboys game from the 1970s the other day and Tony Hill made "a catch" that was immediately dislodged before he had a chance to even secure it and make any kind of move with the ball. Of course, it was called a fumble while today, it would have been ruled incomplete.

I think the catch rule had to be tightened up, but it got too complex and made officials doubt what they were seeing on the field. Then plays like Calvin Johnson's and Bryant's happen that show that the going to the ground and football move aspects were too open to interpretation. That's why they tried to define it clearer.
 
Vtwin said:
Marcus has a well earned reputation for jumping all over this topic whenever it comes up. Every. Single. Time. He even references it in unrelated threads from time to time. He is just as guilty of not letting it go as anyone.

As far as the correct call goes, would you admit there is a degree of subjectivity to this? Specifically, around the football move aspect. It is perfectly reasonable to suggest that catching the ball, switching hands, taking multiple steps then lunging while stretching the ball out demonstrated a football move or two.

If the only defense is a subjective interpretation that leans solely on a technicality, and an acceptance of the NFL stating they investigated themselves and found themselves innocent, then so be it but expect to have a hard time selling that nonsense.

As far as letting it go goes. Can we talk about other aspects of the history of the Dallas Cowboys or is it just the things you don't want to talk about that are off limits?

There is a reason why this play got so much attention and is still talked about today while so many others faded to the background. There is a reason why the league backtracked and changed the rule as a result of this play.
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Sure, lets talk about the non PI call that should have gone against Hitchins which almost certainly meant the Dez non catch never would have happened. Why isn’t that play brought up at least once or twice a year?
 
Amarth said:
Sure, lets talk about the non PI call that should have gone against Hitchins which almost certainly meant the Dez non catch never would have happened. Why isn’t that play brought up at least once or twice a year?
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Believe it or not, that was a good no call. There was a play last weekend which was pretty much the same deal. The underthrown ball hit the trailing defender in the back as the receiver slowed down to adjust and contact happened.

The reason this is not interference is because the defender has the right to the space he occupies. He is not required to move out of the way to allow the receiver to come back to the underthrown ball.

As bad as the officials screwed up the Dez play, they got the Hitchens play right.
 
The most bogus part of the rule is the application of the loose interpretation of “going to the ground”. The fact of the matter is, Dez only was seen to “lose control” of ball because he switched from two hands to one hand to lunge for the goal line (proof of possession) with one arm to cross the plane of the goal line in his forearm, and it was this act that made the ball move when he his arm hit the ground, the latter causing the alleged “incompletion”.

It was clearly a catch and the rule was selectively applied with overwhelmingly interpretive power with respect to the idea of “going to the ground” to overturn it.
 
SultanOfSix said:
The most bogus part of the rule is the application of the loose interpretation of “going to the ground”. The fact of the matter is, Dez only was seen to “lose control” of ball because he switched from two hands to one hand to lunge for the goal line (proof of possession) with one arm to cross the plane of the goal line in his forearm, and it was this act that made the ball move when he his arm hit the ground, the latter causing the alleged “incompletion”.

It was clearly a catch and the rule was selectively applied with overwhelmingly interpretive power with respect to the idea of “going to the ground” to overturn it.
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One more thing. The establishment of the "football move" is crucial to the interpretation of possession or not, and "going to the ground" simply does not just override it. The rule was established precisely because of Calvin Johnson's catch in the endzone where a "football move" did not occur (or is not even possible) and he went to the ground, e.g., when a player catches the ball along the sideline with his toes and falls to the ground, or in the field of play and does the same thing. The football move effectively nullifies the act of "going to the ground" because it is what establishes possession. That is why if a player takes two steps after "going to the ground" stumbles and then hits the ground, it is a fumble.
 
cguy610 said:
I found this old article. This justification for the call at the time is funny to me. According to Dean Blandino, Dez did not lunge for the goal line .

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/sports/blandino-dez-no-catch-still-not-a-catch/119590/

“The football move aspect of it, when you talk about the process of the catch and the receiver is going to the ground, it doesn’t matter how many steps he takes,’’ Blandino told the Dallas Morning News. “He has to maintain control of the football throughout the action and contact with the ground. If he goes to the ground and the ball comes loose, it’s an incomplete pass.

“In order for it to be a football move, OK, he has to gather himself and lunge and dive for the goal line. It has to be overt, it has to be obvious. When you watch that play at full speed, he [Bryant] is going to the ground, he’s trying to maintain possession of it, he doesn’t maintain possession as he hits the ground."
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Don't know what the problem is. He's saying exactly what the rules show that people here just don't understand or conveniently block understanding to shoehorn the result they wanted (including that 3 steps didn't matter as I proved to you).

Dez was clearly not going to do anything but go to the ground after catching that ball. Once that tag is applied, you throw out part (c) of the catch rule (for upright receivers) and it's all about possession past the ground, plus the ball can't touch the ground (which I've also proved here).

However, your only escape from the going to the ground tag is if you can "gather yourself (from the rule)" and lunge forward, probably because that shows that you aren't just falling. It was clearly Dez' attempt to do so but he slipped on his 3rd step and faceplanted plus allowed the ball to touch the ground as he cupped it and moving his elbow forward.

What is or isn't a lunge is quite clear and although Dez intended it, he couldn't execute due to slipping. That's the "it has to be obvious" part. It clearly wasn't. Not just to me but to anyone with a grasp of the rules who's analyzed it. Would love to see any serious analyst who says it was. You won't find it. People can stop their ears and yell, "la, la, la" loudly all they want but hazy "I feels" and pretending doesn't change what the video shows.
 
MarcusRock said:
Don't know what the problem is. He's saying exactly what the rules show that people here just don't understand or conveniently block understanding to shoehorn the result they wanted (including that 3 steps didn't matter as I proved to you).

Dez was clearly not going to do anything but go to the ground after catching that ball. Once that tag is applied, you throw out part (c) of the catch rule (for upright receivers) and it's all about possession past the ground, plus the ball can't touch the ground (which I've also proved here).

However, your only escape from the going to the ground tag is if you can "gather yourself (from the rule)" and lunge forward, probably because that shows that you aren't just falling. It was clearly Dez' attempt to do so but he slipped on his 3rd step and faceplanted plus allowed the ball to touch the ground as he cupped it and moving his elbow forward.

What is or isn't a lunge is quite clear and although Dez intended it, he couldn't execute due to slipping. That's the "it has to be obvious" part. It clearly wasn't. Not just to me but to anyone with a grasp of the rules who's analyzed it. Would love to see any serious analyst who says it was. You won't find it. People can stop their ears and yell, "la, la, la" loudly all they want but hazy "I feels" and pretending doesn't change what the video shows.
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Serious question - do you know what the definition of a lunge is? It means a forward rush or reach. (Like Dez reaching the football out to the goal line)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lunge

You can have an opinion, but you can't redefine the meaning of words to try to fit your narrative. They are in the dictionary.
 
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no he didnt. Instead of catching the ball and securing it, he was tried to score and the ball was never secure
 
cguy610 said:
Serious question - do you know what the definition of a lunge is? It means a forward rush or reach. (Like Dez reaching the football out to the goal line)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lunge

You can have an opinion, but you can't redefine the meaning of words to try to fit your narrative. They are in the dictionary.
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Except the rules follow a rulebook, not a dictionary. Do you know what a rulebook is? That rulebook said that a player needed to "gather himself" and then lunge forward. You can't do that when you slip and faceplant. You can insert external haze but you can't redefine the document that governed the play.

Plus, you left off words in your definition. It's a "sudden" forward rush or reach. What was sudden about Dez descending in basically a straight line trajectory from peak to crashing down to the ground? When you leave out details like that, it tells you about the strength of your argument. Since I voided your 3 steps theory, this is the next topic of approach I guess. Same result.
 
gtb1943 said:
one thing you can ALWAYS rely on:
Rocky hating other haters
MarcusRock defending officials
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Consider me anti-whining. It's one thing when refs screw up (and they do) but it's another to accuse them of screwing up when you don't even understand the underlying rules to rail against the call in the first place. At least be informed before you whine. I'm here to provide that service. Lol.

But if I'm wrong, show me where. You won't see me blatantly lying to hold on to a position I know is wrong but who cares about that nowadays anyway? It's become the norm.
 
Remember when stores were putting footprints down to make sure people stood far enough apart?

You can tell who stood directly on those footprints and scowled at those who stood near but not directly on them.
 
BTW, the same replay official ruled that Cobb "caught" this pass in the first half of the very same Dez game.



The fix was in.

Marcus defends this call too in the most blatant act of hypocrisy ever seen on a football forum.
 
MarcusRock said:
Except the rules follow a rulebook, not a dictionary. Do you know what a rulebook is? That rulebook said that a player needed to "gather himself" and then lunge forward. You can't do that when you slip and faceplant. You can insert external haze but you can't redefine the document that governed the play.

Plus, you left off words in your definition. It's a "sudden" forward rush or reach. What was sudden about Dez descending in basically a straight line trajectory from peak to crashing down to the ground? When you leave out details like that, it tells you about the strength of your argument. Since I voided your 3 steps theory, this is the next topic of approach I guess. Same result.
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Where does it say in the rulebook that a player has gather himself and lunge forward?

To your second point about the phrase "sudden forward rush or reach", Dez's did a sudden reach for end zone with the football. Since you got called out on trying to redefine the word reach, you are now making up things that didn't happen in the Dez catch video like Dez didn't suddenly reach for the endzone, Dez slipped, etc.
 
Boy is yesterday “ this day in history he caught the ball “ for Buffalo and Cooks .

:facepalm:
 
gimmesix said:
That's always been my issue with overturning the call. I see Bryant moving the ball to his outside hand so he can brace himself with the other hand and reach for the goal line.
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It's crystal clear Dez was trying to score.
 
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