Toomer: Romo better than Eli

[Doomsday101]

Really? I see some top guys. But I also see Chad Pennington and Brian Griese

2011 Aaron Rodgers (28) 122.5 GNB
2010 Tom Brady (33) 111.0 NWE
2009 Drew Brees (30) 109.6 NOR
2008 Philip Rivers (27) 105.5 SDG
2007 Tom Brady (30) 117.2 NWE
2006 Peyton Manning (30) 101.0 IND
2005 Peyton Manning (29) 104.1 IND
2004 Peyton Manning (28) 121.1 IND
2003 Steve McNair (30) 100.4 TEN
2002 Chad Pennington (26) 104.2 NYJ
2001 Kurt Warner (30) 101.4 STL
2000 Brian Griese (25) 102.9 DEN

Those were top QB's within a season and when you start seeing the same guys sitting at the top each year then that says a lot. Yes any player can go out and have a good year or even a great year that does not make them elite. Elite tend to do it on a regular basis.

 

[op124]

Here is a list of the QBs with the 5 worst QB ratings last year:

Gabbert
Painter
Skelton
Ponder
Bradford

Here is a list of the QBs with the 5 best QB ratings last year:

Rodgers
Brees
Brady
Romo
Stafford

Top QBs have a good WR/TE.

Greg Jennings/Jordy Nelson, Marques Colston/Jimmy Graham, Wes Welker/Rob G/Aaron Hernandez, Dez Bryant/Miles Austin/ Jason Whitten, Calvin Johnson/Jermaine. Only Tom Brady and Drew Brees have proven that they can work with different receiving options. (Romo had Whitten his entire career)

Bottom 5 Rookies/lack receiving options/inexperience.Painter sucks all the way around . Number are ok, but don't ignore the situation.

 

[DFWJC]

Top QBs have a good WR/TE.

Greg Jennings/Jordy Nelson, Marques Colston/Jimmy Graham, Wes Welker/Rob G/Aaron Hernandez, Dez Bryant/Miles Austin/ Jason Whitten, Calvin Johnson/Jermaine. Only Tom Brady and Drew Brees have proven that they can work with different receiving options. (Romo had Whitten his entire career)

Maybe drop that to Brady only then, because Brees has also always had good and/or elite weapons.

 

[bklyn1028]

Which is it?

He showed moxie with Justin Smith pounded him constantly and he still got up!
He never wavered, the kid is tough!

 

[bklyn1028]

Aikman had a rocket arm and outstanding accuracy. But those were two of his greatest attributes. I don't buy the arguments about how good he could have been if called upon to do more. It doesn't matter. He was as good as he was, no better.

Troy was a very good QB, but there were better players at his position in the league (Montana, Elway). Some of them had less hardware, too. It doesn't matter, though. He was a great player, and good enough to win the big ones.

I don't understand why people think ******** Manning is getting slighted when they say he's not an elite QB. He's played damn good football when it matters, his team was elite (Superbowl victories are the only measure of 'elite' when it comes to teams). He's going to be in the Hall of Fame someday in all likelihood--and will deserve it. All of this can be true, and he can still not be as good a player as Romo. And Romo might not be as good a player as Brees, or Rodgers, or Brady, or P Manning, or Rivers or whoever.

Evaluating QB play properly has nothing to do with being a homer or not being a homer. Some players are just better than other players. And some players aren't necessarily better, but they're just in better situations. There are a dozen guys in the league who'd look a hell of a lot better than they do now if they were playing in San Francisco. Put Jay Cutler or Phillip Rivers in that offense, and we'd be calling those guys elite right now. Stafford, Bradford on the 49ers? They'd be elite. Because they'd have the teams to win the big games on the biggest stage. The reality is, they'd be the same players in a better situation on a better team.

This is the reason why you don't measure players by team accomplishments. There are other important factors significant enough to impact the outcomes of games.

But the fact of the matter is this:

Eli Manning CARRIED his team, it's fact, everyone with a 1/2 a brain could see that. Jacobs lost his steam when he got that big contract in 2008. Bradshaw has / had foot issues and missed games. His running game was out the window, so he had to rely on his arm, which not may QB's had to do.

Nicks was injured for I believe 2 or 3 games, and Manningham was injured.

His front line was full of injuries and every analyst from Miami Beach to Mongolia said the Giants had to shift offensive lineman pretty much every week, yet Eli continued and continued and continued. To do what he did, with what he had to work with was an accomplishment.

That isn't to say Romo couldn't have either, or anyone for that matter, but the kid did it. He's elite in my book, or at least Eli, and you can keep the "te".

 

[Doomsday101]

But the fact of the matter is this:

Eli Manning CARRIED his team, it's fact, everyone with a 1/2 a brain could see that. Jacobs lost his steam when he got that big contract in 2008. Bradshaw has / had foot issues and missed games. His running game was out the window, so he had to rely on his arm, which not may QB's had to do.

Nicks was injured for I believe 2 or 3 games, and Manningham was injured.

His front line was full of injuries and every analyst from Miami Beach to Mongolia said the Giants had to shift offensive lineman pretty much every week, yet Eli continued and continued and continued. To do what he did, with what he had to work with was an accomplishment.

That isn't to say Romo couldn't have either, or anyone for that matter, but the kid did it. He's elite in my book, or at least Eli, and you can keep the "te".

I think Eli played very good last year but if I had to point to one guy who stood out it was Victor Cruz, he took some avg plays and turned them into big plays for much of the season including a big game vs the Jets where he took a simple 5 yard pass and took it 90 yards for the TD.

In my view he was the big differance for NY this past season. Not to mention a defense that started getting healthy and playing much better late in the season than they did early on

 

[Idgit]

But the fact of the matter is this:

Eli Manning CARRIED his team, it's fact, everyone with a 1/2 a brain could see that. Jacobs lost his steam when he got that big contract in 2008. Bradshaw has / had foot issues and missed games. His running game was out the window, so he had to rely on his arm, which not may QB's had to do.

Nicks was injured for I believe 2 or 3 games, and Manningham was injured.

His front line was full of injuries and every analyst from Miami Beach to Mongolia said the Giants had to shift offensive lineman pretty much every week, yet Eli continued and continued and continued. To do what he did, with what he had to work with was an accomplishment.

That isn't to say Romo couldn't have either, or anyone for that matter, but the kid did it. He's elite in my book, or at least Eli, and you can keep the "te".

When I watch the Giants, I see a crippling pass rush that brings tremendous pressure off both edges and is capable of pushing in the middle. I see rangy players in the secondary who aren't always in position, but who are big enough and fast enough to make plays. And I see a pair of WRs in Cruz and Nicks who are capable of beating game plans and a QB capable of getting them the ball. Cruz, in particular, is a beast in that he can beat you from anywhere on the field, and he's a big play waiting to happen.

But Eli's just a good player. And there have been years where I think it's been a stretch to call him good, honestly. Last year, he definitely stepped it up a notch and was very good, bordering on great. I also think that's probably going to be the norm for him from here on out, but we'll see.

Either way, I don't consider Eli or Romo elite players, but I do think Tony Romo has been better over his career and is still better as of last season. I want to be clear, though, that your team is elite, and ours isn't, and that's all that matters at the end of the day. Let's just say, I'd retroactively swap rosters with you over the last 5 seasons if you wanted to. Even if that meant that ******bag Brandon Jacobs wearing a star.

 

[Idgit]

I think Eli played very good last year but if I had to point to one guy who stood out it was Victor Cruz, he took some avg plays and turned them into big plays for much of the season including a big game vs the Jets where he took a simple 5 yard pass and took it 90 yards for the TD.

In my view he was the big differance for NY this past season. Not to mention a defense that started getting healthy and playing much better late in the season than they did early on

Whoah. Dude.

We're right, too. Cruz is a beast. I absolutely love the guy.

 

[bklyn1028]

I think Eli played very good last year but if I had to point to one guy who stood out it was Victor Cruz, he took some avg plays and turned them into big plays for much of the season including a big game vs the Jets where he took a simple 5 yard pass and took it 90 yards for the TD.

In my view he was the big differance for NY this past season. Not to mention a defense that started getting healthy and playing much better late in the season than they did early on

That is very true. For last season you could call Cruz an elite WR, only because he consistently played his heart out EVERY game he was in. Every game. I'm so very curious what he'll do this year.

 

[Idgit]

That is very true. For last season you could call Cruz an elite WR, only because he consistently played his heart out EVERY game he was in. Every game. I'm so very curious what he'll do this year.

I think he's elite, too, honestly. Or he was, last year. And I think he'll maintain the high level of play.

In my opinion, there's usually only one or two elite players at a given position at any point in time in the NFL, and I like Cruz better than every WR out there right now other than CJ, I think. I know, physically, there are several players out there who have him beat, but as far as changing a game and doing it from anyplace on the field, I think the guy's amazing.

 

[bklyn1028]

When I watch the Giants, I see a crippling pass rush that brings tremendous pressure off both edges and is capable of pushing in the middle. I see rangy players in the secondary who aren't always in position, but who are big enough and fast enough to make plays. And I see a pair of WRs in Cruz and Nicks who are capable of beating game plans and a QB capable of getting them the ball. Cruz, in particular, is a beast in that he can beat you from anywhere on the field, and he's a big play waiting to happen.

But Eli's just a good player. And there have been years where I think it's been a stretch to call him good, honestly. Last year, he definitely stepped it up a notch and was very good, bordering on great. I also think that's probably going to be the norm for him from here on out, but we'll see.

Either way, I don't consider Eli or Romo elite players, but I do think Tony Romo has been better over his career and is still better as of last season. I want to be clear, though, that your team is elite, and ours isn't, and that's all that matters at the end of the day. Let's just say, I'd retroactively swap rosters with you over the last 5 seasons if you wanted to. Even if that meant that ******bag Brandon Jacobs wearing a star.

You sir have hit the nail collectively and squarely on the head. I believe Eli is elite only because of last year. 2010 he sucked. I hope he continues to bring his game every week as he did last year, and yes he will be considered great at that point, if he can keep it up.

 

[Doomsday101]

Whoah. Dude.

We're right, too. Cruz is a beast. I absolutely love the guy.

Can't say I love him but he had a heck of a year taking some really insignificant throws and turning them into very big plays. He just stood out for the Giants. He in my view was the difference maker and of course on defense was Jason Pierre-Paul

 

[Idgit]

Can't say I love him but he had a heck of a year taking some really insignificant throws and turning them into very big plays. He just stood out for the Giants. He in my view was the difference maker and of course on defense was Jason Pierre-Paul

I'll admit, I've also got a sweet spot for him because of where he was drafted, and because he's a life-long Cowboys fan.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'll admit, I've also got a sweet spot for him because of where he was drafted, and because he's a life-long Cowboys fan.

If he was that much of a Cowboys fans he could have dropped a few more passes. :laugh2:

 

[Ring Leader]

You sir have hit the nail collectively and squarely on the head. I believe Eli is elite only because of last year. 2010 he sucked. I hope he continues to bring his game every week as he did last year, and yes he will be considered great at that point, if he can keep it up.

I need to see another couple of 2011 type of years to call Eli Elite.

"Elite" doesn't happen once in a while, it is the norm.

 

[gbrittain]

Top QBs have a good WR/TE.

Greg Jennings/Jordy Nelson, Marques Colston/Jimmy Graham, Wes Welker/Rob G/Aaron Hernandez, Dez Bryant/Miles Austin/ Jason Whitten, Calvin Johnson/Jermaine. Only Tom Brady and Drew Brees have proven that they can work with different receiving options. (Romo had Whitten his entire career)

Bottom 5 Rookies/lack receiving options/inexperience.Painter sucks all the way around . Number are ok, but don't ignore the situation.

Funny though when it comes to Romo and winning and the postseason, defense becomes irrelevant. So situations do matter?

Also worth noting. Miles was pretty much hurt all last year. Dez supposedly only knows 3 routes. Our best WR was picked up off the scrap heap. I might argue Romo made a lot out of little. Witten is pretty good but don't know much about that Whitten guy.

If the Cowboys make it to the playoffs and the opponent averages 14 points much like the NY Giants defense did to opposing offenses last postseason, do you like Romo's chances in the playoffs?

 

[op124]

Funny though when it comes to Romo and winning and the postseason, defense becomes irrelevant. So situations do matter?

Also worth noting. Miles was pretty much hurt all last year. Dez supposedly only knows 3 routes. Our best WR was picked up off the scrap heap. I might argue Romo made a lot out of little. Witten is pretty good but don't know much about that Whitten guy.

If the Cowboys make it to the playoffs and the opponent averages 14 points much like the NY Giants defense did to opposing offenses last postseason, do you like Romo's chances in the playoffs?

You must have me confused with someone else, I never had the double standard for Romo.

He only knows three route and those three routes seem to get him 900 yds and 7+TDs. I know the injury situation but Miles for 10 games, 3 route Bryant, Jason > anything Blaine, Bradford, etchas.


Sure, I am not a Tony Romo hater. Never downplayed his accomplishments, never thought he wasn't a quality starter, never thought he wasn't capable of winning a championship, he is but he won't with this team. I don't watch a lot of Cowboy games maybe 6 or 8 a year, he doesn't make me feel like "oh crap, Tony's playing we are in trouble". But then again D.Ware doesn't make me nervous. Could be the team make up.

 

[gbrittain]

You must have me confused with someone else, I never had the double standard for Romo.

He only knows three route and those three routes seem to get him 900 yds and 7+TDs. I know the injury situation but Miles for 10 games, 3 route Bryant, Jason > anything Blaine, Bradford, etchas.


Sure, I am not a Tony Romo hater. Never downplayed his accomplishments, never thought he wasn't a quality starter, never thought he wasn't capable of winning a championship, he is but he won't with this team. I don't watch a lot of Cowboy games maybe 6 or 8 a year, he doesn't make me feel like "oh crap, Tony's playing we are in trouble". But then again D.Ware doesn't make me nervous. Could be the team make up.

Sorry op, was not trying to put words in your mouth. I was more making the general argument that people make against Tony.

 

[bklyn1028]

I need to see another couple of 2011 type of years to call Eli Elite.

"Elite" doesn't happen once in a while, it is the norm.

That's true. He held true to his statement that he was a top 5 QB, now we (me) can only hope he can continue it, or he'll be just an avg qb who happened to have a very good yr.

 

[eliland]

Well, all I know is that Manning probably wouldn't have overthrown a wide open Miles Austin last year in that game against the Giants that would have iced the game for the cowboys...


These arguments are dumb.. anyone in the NFL as a QB is a phenomenal athlete... but they need great players around them on offense, a good Defense, and some luck.

Many old timers say Archie Manning would have been Roger Staubach if he was on a good team.