Top hopefuls may be all gone...

[Alexander]

No one likes it, but I'd pull the trigger at #16 on CB Darqueze Dennard...I love the way this guy covers and completes and is physical. We have Scandrick and Carr...questions about Claiborne and BW Webb. It's not often that you get to draft a top CB like Dennard. You're never deep enough or good enough at CB.

Absolutely positively not.

A first round CB does not even start as I am pretty positive we do not bench Carr or Scandrick nor even Claiborne.

You do not spend your first round choice on a player who would at best be fourth on your depth chart.

Now, tell me we are cutting Carr or trading Claiborne, then it makes more sense.

If you absolutely positively have to satisfy your insatiable gnawing hunger for all things cornerback, take one in the third or fourth round. You can easily get one just as good there. Walt Aikens of Liberty is one that should be available there.

 

[tm1119]

I know this board has an irrational dislike for the guy but you have to at least include Jernigan in the conversation

 

[jnday]

Except it wouldn't be a second round pick, and it would be someone that they actually spent a lot of time scouting and (presumably) knew better. I wouldn't give a second to move up for Donald. To go from 16 to 11 it would cost a third at most. Maybe a 4th with as many people wanting to move back. If Tenn wants Pryor, then he will be there at 16 and they could get a 4th.

Anyway, I get why you don't want to. I just would for a 4th and maybe a 3rd.

I have nothing against Donald, but there are too many holes on this team to trade off picks. It will take more than a fourth to move up and probably more than a third.

 

[xwalker]

What about Martin at 16?

I love drafting OLinemen, but I don't really want to draft Martin at #16.

Martin's skill-set is as well developed as anybody's in this draft, but his raw physical ability is nothing special. I wouldn't draft him as an OT and at OG I don't think he is any better than Sua'Filo.

This draft is loaded with OLinemen. At OT Morgan Moses has a higher upside than Martin, IMO but is not as polished. Billy Turner is a terrific looking small school guy that can probably play OT or OG. Dozier and Thomas are going to be good also. Trai Turner is currently rated as a 5th rounder in part because he is only a redshirt sophomore that needs more time, but he has a nice upside. Marcus Martin is a Center that would be a good Guard and could probably start as a rookie.

 

[LatinMind]

Donald could go as high as #12 to Giants....only DTs on their roster are Cullen Jenkins, Johnathan Hankins and Markus Kuhn. No way this guys makes it past Giants and Chicago and others to us at 16.
Clinton-Dix would likely then go to Chicago....huge void at safety and lost in free agency.

If those two are gone, and many think it's now very likely they will be, then I think it's
Zack Martin....would make a lot of sense as he can play either T or move inside to G...building the OL
Pryor....some like him better on the back end than HaHa, in coverage, and at least his physicality brings something special or unique to the secondary.

Otherwise, hope to trade down a little and look at Hageman, DT or Ealy, DE.

No one likes it, but I'd pull the trigger at #16 on CB Darqueze Dennard...I love the way this guy covers and completes and is physical. We have Scandrick and Carr...questions about Claiborne and BW Webb. It's not often that you get to draft a top CB like Dennard. You're never deep enough or good enough at CB.

We will find plenty of guys who can help us in the front 7 after round 1 if our favorites are gone.

Signing Melton makes drafting Donald less of a need. They could probably draft Sutton in the 2nd.

Dallas has dix already on the team and his name is Barry Chuch

Dallas wont draft a 1tech in round one(Hageman)

Ealy i would love in a trade down

Dennard will be gone by 16


Think the guys who will and could be there.

Players who could fall
Anthony Barr
Mike Evans
Johnny Manziel

Players who most likely will be there
Zach Martin
Timmy Jernigan
Marqise Lee
Taylor Lewan
Justin Gilbert

 

[Sydla]

I love drafting OLinemen, but I don't really want to draft Martin at #16.

Martin's skill-set is as well developed as anybody's in this draft, but his raw physical ability is nothing special. I wouldn't draft him as an OT and at OG I don't think he is any better than Sua'Filo.

This draft is loaded with OLinemen. At OT Morgan Moses has a higher upside than Martin, IMO but is not as polished. Billy Turner is a terrific looking small school guy that can probably play OT or OG. Dozier and Thomas are going to be good also. Trai Turner is currently rated as a 5th rounder in part because he is only a redshirt sophomore that needs more time, but he has a nice upside. Marcus Martin is a Center that would be a good Guard and could probably start as a rookie.

Martin has better skills and athleticism than you are giving him credit for. Seems the fact he's arguably the most technically sound of the OL became code for unathletic and limited upside.

 

[xwalker]

Martin has better skills and athleticism than you are giving him credit for. Seems the fact he's arguably the most technically sound of the OL became code for unathletic and limited upside.

Here are my notes from watching game footage of all the OTs and OGs in this draft. Maybe you can post yours and we'll compare.

http://www.walker-texas.com/2014-draft/2014-draft-OG.pdf
http://www.walker-texas.com/2014-draft/2014-draft-OT.pdf

 

[AsthmaField]

I have nothing against Donald, but there are too many holes on this team to trade off picks. It will take more than a fourth to move up and probably more than a third.

I highly doubt it would take more than a third to move up 5 spots from 16 to 11. Last year San Francisco moved from 31 to 18 in a draft where everyone was trying to move up because of how shallow it was, and only gave up a 3rd. There is a huge difference between moving 13 spots in a shallow draft from 18 to 31, and moving 5 spots in the deepest draft in years from 11 to 16. This year, a lot of teams want to move back, so it should take less to move up a few spots like that.

I think it will probably take a 3rd, but I wouldn't be too surprised if we could do it for a 4th. If Tenn wants Pryor (which I've heard rumors they do), then they could probably move back to 16 and get him and add a 4th... or they could sit at 11 and take him and not get a 4th.

Anyway, you probably end up with the team doing closer to what you want than to what I want.

 

[AsthmaField]

Signing Melton makes drafting Donald less of a need. They could probably draft Sutton in the 2nd.

I pray that they stay way away from Sutton. If they don't want to take Donald, that is fine, but they better fill it some other way than Sutton. He just isn't very good, IMO. He certainly isn't worth a 2nd.

People think that just because he is a DT with smaller stature like Donald is, that he is close to Donald... a poor man's Donald if you will. However, Sutton is in a different universe than Donald athletically, physically, mentally, and production wise. He is not just a little less of a good player than Donald and he isn't anything close to a consolation prize for missing out on Donald.

Sutton's pro day was horrible, his first step is crap even after he lost some weight, he doesn't play with a physical edge, and his overall quickness and explosion are non-existent.

We should get either a starter or a very heavy contributor in the 2nd round. Sutton would be a waste IMO. Besides, his pro day was so poor that I don't doubt he would be there in the 3rd, which is the earliest that I think he is drafted... and I wouldn't do it in the third myself.

 

[LatinMind]

I pray that they stay way away from Sutton. If they don't want to take Donald, that is fine, but they better fill it some other way than Sutton. He just isn't very good, IMO. He certainly isn't worth a 2nd.

People think that just because he is a DT with smaller stature like Donald is, that he is close to Donald... a poor man's Donald if you will. However, Sutton is in a different universe than Donald athletically, physically, mentally, and production wise. He is not just a little less of a good player than Donald and he isn't anything close to a consolation prize for missing out on Donald.

Sutton's pro day was horrible, his first step is crap even after he lost some weight, he doesn't play with a physical edge, and his overall quickness and explosion are non-existent.

We should get either a starter or a very heavy contributor in the 2nd round. Sutton would be a waste IMO. Besides, his pro day was so poor that I don't doubt he would be there in the 3rd, which is the earliest that I think he is drafted... and I wouldn't do it in the third myself.

Sutton isnt good? Didnt you see him in 2012? He didnt gain weight in 2013 because he was lazy. He gained weight because thats what ASU coaches wanted him to do. Dont judge Sutton on his 2013 season. If you want to see Sutton skills go look at his 2012 game vs USC. I havent seen a player dominate a team like that in college in a long time

 

[xwalker]

I highly doubt it would take more than a third to move up 5 spots from 16 to 11. Last year San Francisco moved from 31 to 18 in a draft where everyone was trying to move up because of how shallow it was, and only gave up a 3rd. There is a huge difference between moving 13 spots in a shallow draft from 18 to 31, and moving 5 spots in the deepest draft in years from 11 to 16. This year, a lot of teams want to move back, so it should take less to move up a few spots like that.

I think it will probably take a 3rd, but I wouldn't be too surprised if we could do it for a 4th. If Tenn wants Pryor (which I've heard rumors they do), then they could probably move back to 16 and get him and add a 4th... or they could sit at 11 and take him and not get a 4th.

Anyway, you probably end up with the team doing closer to what you want than to what I want.

A 3rd round pick is highly valuable in this draft. I give it a better than 50% chance that Donald makes it to #16. If the Cowboys don't draft him at #16 I wouldn't be surprised to see him fall to the early twenties. Trading up would be a panic move.

 

[xwalker]

I pray that they stay way away from Sutton. If they don't want to take Donald, that is fine, but they better fill it some other way than Sutton. He just isn't very good, IMO. He certainly isn't worth a 2nd.

People think that just because he is a DT with smaller stature like Donald is, that he is close to Donald... a poor man's Donald if you will. However, Sutton is in a different universe than Donald athletically, physically, mentally, and production wise. He is not just a little less of a good player than Donald and he isn't anything close to a consolation prize for missing out on Donald.

Sutton's pro day was horrible, his first step is crap even after he lost some weight, he doesn't play with a physical edge, and his overall quickness and explosion are non-existent.

We should get either a starter or a very heavy contributor in the 2nd round. Sutton would be a waste IMO. Besides, his pro day was so poor that I don't doubt he would be there in the 3rd, which is the earliest that I think he is drafted... and I wouldn't do it in the third myself.

I'm not a big fan of Sutton's but he did have some good games in 2012. I think he might be a Drake Nevis clone and that didn't work out for Marnielli's scheme. Sutton has extremely short arms.

 

[AsthmaField]

Sutton isnt good? Didnt you see him in 2012? He didnt gain weight in 2013 because he was lazy. He gained weight because thats what ASU coaches wanted him to do. Dont judge Sutton on his 2013 season. If you want to see Sutton skills go look at his 2012 game vs USC. I havent seen a player dominate a team like that in college in a long time

Vs. USC in '12 he had 4 tackles, 4 assists, and 1 sack. A solid enough game but nothing Earth shattering.

What I do know is that he isn't very good now, which is what everyone cares about. Here is an NFL.com article on his pro day after he lost 18 pounds since the Senior Bowl:

Will Sutton, DT: Sutton (6-0 5/8, 297 pounds) has lost 18 pounds since the Senior Bowl. He ran a 5.31 in the 40, a 4.57 short shuttle and a 7.70 3-cone drill. He showed a strong club in his workout, but other than that he was pretty average. This is a guy who some projected as a first-round pick last summer, but after further review he’s probably a third-day pick at best.

Link: http://blogs.nfl.com/2014/03/08/bradford-impresses-sutton-doesnt-at-asu-pro-day/

I know he had better numbers in 2012, but he still wasn't that good even then. He had some moments and he a a couple of games where he got the right opponent in front of him and he played well.

Still, his explosion and quickness are below average at best, his mental makeup worries me and he doesn't play very physical.

Carrun Reid is around his size and he moves much, much better (4.85 40) and isn't rumored to shy away from the physical side of the sport. We could get him in the second and he might even make it to the third round.

Anyway, If you like him, then that is your business. I just don't think he is a good player.

 

[LatinMind]

Vs. USC in '12 he had 4 tackles, 4 assists, and 1 sack. A solid enough game but nothing Earth shattering.

What I do know is that he isn't very good now, which is what everyone cares about. Here is an NFL.com article on his pro day after he lost 18 pounds since the Senior Bowl:

Watch the game dont read the stat line

 

[AsthmaField]

A 3rd round pick is highly valuable in this draft. I give it a better than 50% chance that Donald makes it to #16. If the Cowboys don't draft him at #16 I wouldn't be surprised to see him fall to the early twenties. Trading up would be a panic move.

Well, if the team likes Donald as much as I think they do, then people can say it was a panic move if they want because what would be important is that Dallas has Donald and he fits their system to a Tee.

However, for all I know, they don't want him anymore after Melton.

 

[AsthmaField]

Watch the game dont read the stat line

I've seen clips of it and he did look good... He has looked pretty good in other (2012) games too. However, athletically speaking I don't like the guy at all.

Very little burst (important to Marinelli)
Slow first step (important to Marinelli)
Bad agility (important to Marinelli)
Questionable mental makeup (important to Marinelli)
Short arms (important to everybody)
Doesn't play physical or Tough (important to everybody)

Honestly, I don't care that he had a good game against USC two years ago, the guy doesn't have physically what Marinelli wants on our defense. Even as a 1-tech he doesn't have the required strength and physical nature to excel there.

Like I said, if you like him, that's fine... But don't be too surprised when he is drafted in the 3rd round or later.

 

[Fredd]

A 3rd round pick is highly valuable in this draft. I give it a better than 50% chance that Donald makes it to #16. If the Cowboys don't draft him at #16 I wouldn't be surprised to see him fall to the early twenties. Trading up would be a panic move.

If you want to see panic, what happens if Donald is there and they take a different player?? this board will got absolutely crazy...I like Donald a lot, and would be happy with him as a cowboy, I just think the options @ #16 could also get us an additional pick with a trade down and THAT may be more important in a deep draft (see: Fred and TWill from last year)

 

[burmafrd]

Martin has better skills and athleticism than you are giving him credit for. Seems the fact he's arguably the most technically sound of the OL became code for unathletic and limited upside.

did not know Martin had started 52 straight games- which is pretty much the maximum any one can in college football. Love that kind of consistency and reliability. I would take that over someone more physically talented but gets dinged all the time.

 

[LatinMind]

did not know Martin had started 52 straight games- which is pretty much the maximum any one can in college football. Love that kind of consistency and reliability. I would take that over someone more physically talented but gets dinged all the time.

Yeah and 50 of them were at LT.

 

[starfrombirth]

I love drafting OLinemen, but I don't really want to draft Martin at #16.

Martin's skill-set is as well developed as anybody's in this draft, but his raw physical ability is nothing special. I wouldn't draft him as an OT and at OG I don't think he is any better than Sua'Filo.

This draft is loaded with OLinemen. At OT Morgan Moses has a higher upside than Martin, IMO but is not as polished. Billy Turner is a terrific looking small school guy that can probably play OT or OG. Dozier and Thomas are going to be good also. Trai Turner is currently rated as a 5th rounder in part because he is only a redshirt sophomore that needs more time, but he has a nice upside. Marcus Martin is a Center that would be a good Guard and could probably start as a rookie.

That's something I've always wondered... how do you know this or anyone else for that matter? How can anyone tell what's someone's potential is without seeing it on the field? I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'm really curious what people are looking at to be able to say something like this with such conviction?

Don't misunderstand me... I don't want to draft him at 16. I'm hoping for Jernigen or Nix with or without Donald being available.