Trading Up to 10-15 For a Top CB

[CF74]

Not a draft wizard by no means but could we trade up to somewhere between 10-15 to get somebody like Jenkins or McKelvin? Would both our #1's be required or a #1 and #2? In either scenario we would still either have a #2 and #3 to address RB and WR or a late #1 and a #3. It seems to me a top CB could make an impact now as opposed to riding the pine for 2-3 years.

Pure speculation here looking for insight....

 

[masomenos]

Not a draft wizard by no means but could we trade up to somewhere between 10-15 to get somebody like Jenkins or McKelvin? Would both our #1's be required or a #1 and #2? In either scenario we would still either have a #2 and #3 to address RB and WR or a late #1 and a #3. It seems to me a top CB could make an impact now as opposed to riding the pine for 2-3 years.

Pure speculation here looking for insight....

I would say that the CB class is too deep with first round talent to warrant trading up and losing an early pick. McKelvin is very raw and really wasn't even that productive in college, I think he has a steep learning curve ahead of him. With 5 CBs who have a chance of getting a first round grade I would just as soon stay put and let one of them fall too us. That's how I look at it.

 

[CF74]

I would say that the CB class is too deep with first round talent to warrant trading up and losing an early pick. McKelvin is very raw and really wasn't even that productive in college, I think he has a steep learning curve ahead of him. With 5 CBs who have a chance of getting a first round grade I would just as soon stay put and let one of them fall too us. That's how I look at it.

I was reading up on some of these guys and it seems some of the "lesser" cb's have better production, not sure about their competition though, ie division etc...

 

[cowboyjoe]

i agree with you, but not that high, what i would do, like the 17th or 18th pick, especially with the vikings, if a player falls, that you think is super, like if you look in that past drafts after the 21st pick, you dont generally get a good player, but from the 17th pick to the 21st you can,

i point to the 17th of emmitt smith, 17th of warren sapp, 21st of randy moss
and 20th of little sapp, dt that player wolfork for patriots now, and the eagles traded up to the 16th spot to get their og that parcells wanted, and if yoiu remember the patriots got wolfork nt with the 21st pick right in front of us, then parcells traded that pick away

we can give our 3rd or 4th pick to move up just alittle,

and then we can trade down with our 28th pick to like the falcons or miami, in their 2nd round that needs a QB, then we can pick back up the pick we traded to move up, adn it will be a higher pick

thats what i would do, but only if say your sitting at 22nd like we are, and when it gets to the 15th pick and top cbs are falling and so are the rbs, their are no great wrs at 22nd pick, so if you see a guy that might have fallen like emmitt smith or warren sapp, go get him, thats what this team needs is playmakes, impact players, you dont generally get an impact player with 22nd pick,

 

[Manwiththeplan]

IMO there is a drop off after the top 3 guys

My rankings would be

1.) Dominique Rogers-Cromartie
probably the #3 or #4 guy on most teams boards, but he has the best height/speed combination and makes plays on the ball.
2.) Mike Jenkins
Had a great combine, but measuring in at 5-10 when he was listed at 6 feet hurt his image. Right now I think he's been listed as the #1 CB for so long people are over analyzing him.
3.) Aquib Talib
Best playmaking college CB imo. People knock him saying he lacks the speed, but imo the man makes plays.
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4.) Tracey Porter
Very Similar prospect to McKelvin in reguards to size and athleticism, except Porter has much better ball skills (although if both Porter and McKelvin were available, I'd trade down assuming the top 3 on my list were gone).
5.) Leodis McKelvin
Others are a lot higher on him than I am. He has great speed (4.38) and decent size (5'10) but his lack of ints make me rank him a notch below the other guys
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6.) Antoine Cason
Similar to Talib imo. Both guys make plays, but lack great speed (although both have enough to get the job done)

 

[burmafrd]

Talib had the speed in COLLEGE to make plays. Virtually everyone he will have to cover in the pros will be at least a step faster. I really doubt he will have the speed to be a top corner in the NFL.

 

[CF74]

IMO there is a drop off after the top 3 guys

My rankings would be

1.) Dominique Rogers-Cromartie
probably the #3 or #4 guy on most teams boards, but he has the best height/speed combination and makes plays on the ball.
2.) Mike Jenkins
Had a great combine, but measuring in at 5-10 when he was listed at 6 feet hurt his image. Right now I think he's been listed as the #1 CB for so long people are over analyzing him.
3.) Aquib Talib
Best playmaking college CB imo. People knock him saying he lacks the speed, but imo the man makes plays.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.) Tracey Porter
Very Similar prospect to McKelvin in reguards to size and athleticism, except Porter has much better ball skills (although if both Porter and McKelvin were available, I'd trade down assuming the top 3 on my list were gone).
5.) Leodis McKelvin
Others are a lot higher on him than I am. He has great speed (4.38) and decent size (5'10) but his lack of ints make me rank him a notch below the other guys
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
6.) Antoine Cason
Similar to Talib imo. Both guys make plays, but lack great speed (although both have enough to get the job done)

You think Cromartie is ranked lower for having played in a weaker division maybe? How far would you consider trading down?

The safety Phillips has my interest, wonder if he could play #3 corner...

 

[ThatsmyQB]

2008 NFL Draft

1- Mike Jenkins, CB, South Florida
1- Felix Jones, RB, Arkansas
2- Donnie Avery, WR, Houston
3- Red Bryant, NT, Texas A&M
4- Vince Hall, ILB, Virginia Tech
5- Dwight Lowery, CB, San Jose State
6- Drew Miller, C, Florida
7- Dominique Barber, SS, Minesota


I love this mock by the way, the only thing I dont' like is an I.L.B.!
We have FIVE I.L.B.'s on our team right now, dont' see a need for another one!
We'll have Thomas and James starting, Ayodelle might leave, but even if he did we'd still have Burnett and Carpenter as backups, just don't see any need in drafting an I.L.B. this year AT ALL!
Give me another R.B./W.R. or guard with round 4 and I love the rest of the draft, although I have a better shot at hitting lotto then Jenkins being there at #22, but you never know!

 

[Manwiththeplan]

2008 NFL Draft

1- Mike Jenkins, CB, South Florida
1- Felix Jones, RB, Arkansas
2- Donnie Avery, WR, Houston
3- Red Bryant, NT, Texas A&M
4- Vince Hall, ILB, Virginia Tech
5- Dwight Lowery, CB, San Jose State
6- Drew Miller, C, Florida
7- Dominique Barber, SS, Minesota


I love this mock by the way, the only thing I dont' like is an I.L.B.!
We have FIVE I.L.B.'s on our team right now, dont' see a need for another one!
We'll have Thomas and James starting, Ayodelle might leave, but even if he did we'd still have Burnett and Carpenter as backups, just don't see any need in drafting an I.L.B. this year AT ALL!
Give me another R.B./W.R. or guard with round 4 and I love the rest of the draft, although I have a better shot at hitting lotto then Jenkins being there at #22, but you never know!

I think we should release Akin Ayodele. He doesn't play special teams and had 5 more tackles in 16 games than ZThomas had in 5. I'd release him which would give Kevin Burnett a bigger role.

With Carpenter I'd hold him till after the draft. Teams de-value players this time of year cause they believe they can get their own guys in the draft. If we wait till after the draft we can get a higher draft pick because someone will want an OLB and failed to get one during the draft.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

You think Cromartie is ranked lower for having played in a weaker division maybe? How far would you consider trading down?

Personally I took that in to account but believe he's still the best, but I do think other teams will drop him because of that. As far as trading down, if the top 3 guys are gone, I'd do a similar trade like last years cause I know I can probably get Tracey Porter at 28.

The safety Phillips has my interest, wonder if he could play #3 corner...

No he can't play corner. People want to compare him to Reed and Taylor cause of the college he went to, but he's not. If anything his workout numbers would make you believe he's closer to Roy Williams than those 2.

 

[ThatsmyQB]

With Carpenter I'd hold him till after the draft. Teams de-value players this time of year cause they believe they can get their own guys in the draft. If we wait till after the draft we can get a higher draft pick because someone will want an OLB and failed to get one during the draft.

That's assuming a LOT!
That we cut Ayodelle and trade Carpenter!
Carpenter isnt' going ANYWHERE, he's cost us about 3 mil cap hit if we traded him, Ayodelle gone I can understand, and with Ayodelle gone and us not trading Carpenter cause it's not economic with that cap hit, we'll have 4 I.L.B.'s WITH Ayodelle gone, and we're not keeping 5, so there's no room for another I.L.B. period!
thomas and James the starters and Burnett and Carpenter aren't going anywhere so ALL I.L.B. will not even be on our draft board IMO!
Same with O.T., I don't think we'll have ANY O.T.'s/T.E.'s/I.L.B.'s on our draft board come draft day!

 

[CF74]

2008 NFL Draft

1- Mike Jenkins, CB, South Florida
1- Felix Jones, RB, Arkansas
2- Donnie Avery, WR, Houston
3- Red Bryant, NT, Texas A&M
4- Vince Hall, ILB, Virginia Tech
5- Dwight Lowery, CB, San Jose State
6- Drew Miller, C, Florida
7- Dominique Barber, SS, Minesota


I love this mock by the way, the only thing I dont' like is an I.L.B.!
We have FIVE I.L.B.'s on our team right now, dont' see a need for another one!
We'll have Thomas and James starting, Ayodelle might leave, but even if he did we'd still have Burnett and Carpenter as backups, just don't see any need in drafting an I.L.B. this year AT ALL!
Give me another R.B./W.R. or guard with round 4 and I love the rest of the draft, although I have a better shot at hitting lotto then Jenkins being there at #22, but you never know!

Before Zack Thomas came along I had ILB and SS switched in my sig, now I flipped em. I expect big things from Zack but who is gonna fill his shoes when he's gone or gets hurt again? Bobby? I don't like any of the ILB's we have right now except ZT. We gotta get some new ones but it's not a huge priority, we've managed to get bye.

We need 2 guys in the secondary, 2 rb's, and a top tier wr from this draft now....

 

[ThatsmyQB]

Before Zack Thomas came along I had ILB and SS switched in my sig, now I flipped em. I expect big things from Zack but who is gonna fill his shoes when he's gone or gets hurt again? Bobby? I don't like any of the ILB's we have right now except ZT. We gotta get some new ones but it's not a huge priority, we've managed to get bye.

Bottom line though, is we're only gonna keep 4 I.L.B.'s on our roster!
We have FIVE right now with Thomas and James starting, Burnett isn't going anywhere, and neither is Carpenter since we'll take about a 3 million cap hit if we trade him, and Ayodelle, I expect Ayodelle to be the odd man out with Thomas and James starting with Burnett and Caprenter backing him up, so NO DRAFT PICK is gonna beat out Burnett or Carpenter for a roster spot, so that's why I say I.L.B. will NOT be on our draft board come the draft.

but who is gonna fill his shoes when he's gone or gets hurt again? Bobby?

Burnett would step in, and besides, do you think any 4th rounder could come in and START in case of injury anyway that would be better than Burnett OR Bobby?
Bottom line, Thomas/James, Carpenter and Burnett ain't going nowhere, and we're only keeping 4 I.L.B.'s, so there's NO POINT in drafting one since there's no room on the roster for another one!

We need 2 guys in the secondary, 2 rb's, and a top tier wr from this draft now....

I AGREE!

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Didnt we keep 5 ILBs the first year we ran a 3-4? If we can't move Carp due to cap reasons then I could see us passing on all ILBs

 

[DaBoys4Life]

I don't think we need to trade up to get a corner as their isn't a huge drop off from the top corners to the ones thats going to be in the 3rd round. I still think cason is the best CB in the draft.

 

[TwoSteppinJJ]

ESPN's latest mock has Cromartie going at 30 and us taking Mike Jenkins at 22. Interesting how they have McKelvin the only CB going ahead of our 22nd pick. I don't put much stock into any mock drafts out there but its interesting to say the least.

 

[Doomsdayblitz]

Not a draft wizard by no means but could we trade up to somewhere between 10-15 to get somebody like Jenkins or McKelvin? Would both our #1's be required or a #1 and #2? In either scenario we would still either have a #2 and #3 to address RB and WR or a late #1 and a #3. It seems to me a top CB could make an impact now as opposed to riding the pine for 2-3 years.

Pure speculation here looking for insight....

Hopefully, this will help you. There is a Trade Value Chart that many draft experts & even NFL teams use when deciding the value of a certain pick or trade. The Huddle Report has a copy of one on its site that you can print off. It will become invaluable as you begin putting trades together on your own, or if you would want to join a mock draft with others.

Here is the link: http://www.thehuddlereport.com/ . Just click on it & go to the site. Once you're on it, click on "Draft Tools" on the third line down. You have to do it this way if you're not a member. Then click on "Trade Value Chart" under DRAFT TOOLS. Print it off, and away you go. Each pick is given a value, starting off with the #1 pick, which is worth 3,000 pts. You'll get the hang of it in no time.

If you have any questions, you can pm me.

 

[ThatsmyQB]

Hopefully, this will help you. There is a Trade Value Chart that many draft experts & even NFL teams use when deciding the value of a certain pick or trade. The Huddle Report has a copy of one on its site that you can print off. It will become invaluable as you begin putting trades together on your own, or if you would want to join a mock draft with others.

Here is the link: http://www.thehuddlereport.com/ . Just click on it & go to the site. Once you're on it, click on "Draft Tools" on the third line down. You have to do it this way if you're not a member. Then click on "Trade Value Chart" under DRAFT TOOLS. Print it off, and away you go. Each pick is given a value, starting off with the #1 pick, which is worth 3,000 pts. You'll get the hang of it in no time.

If you have any questions, you can pm me.

Also, a pick for the FOLLOWING season is ranked by points for a round lower, meaning a 2009 1st round pick is EQUIVALENT to a 2008 2nd round pick and vice versa.
Also remember no trade is ever EXACT, it's a trade value chart that Jimmy Johnson actually came up with on his own, and it's used by everyone now so no one gets really screwed over on a trade but it's not an EXACT science, teams trading UP will usually pay a little more of a price POINTS WISE to the team trading down because the team trading up really likes a player and is willing to pay slightly more.
Also, it has to be realistic meaning you can't say we'll give them our 6th and 7th round picks for 4 years in a row for a 2nd rounder this year. LOL