True Crime thread

[Crazed Liotta Eyes]

Today is the 30th Anniversary of "The Yogurt Shop" murders which occurred in Austin, TX on December 6th, 1991.

From Wiki...

"The 1991 Austin yogurt shop murders were an unsolved quadruple homicide which took place at an I Can't Believe It's Yogurt! shop in Austin, Texas, United States on Friday, December 6, 1991. The victims were four teenage girls: 13-year-old Amy Ayers (or Ayres), 17-year-old Eliza Thomas, 17-year-old Jennifer Harbison and Jennifer's 15-year-old sister Sarah. Jennifer and Eliza were employees of the shop, while Sarah and her friend Amy were in the shop to get a ride home with Jennifer after it closed at 11:00 pm. Approximately sixty minutes before closing time, a man who had tried to hustle customers in his queue was permitted to use the toilet in back, took a very long time and may have jammed a rear door open. A couple who left the shop just before 11:00 pm, when Jennifer locked the front door to prevent more customers entering, reported seeing two men at a table acting furtively.

Around midnight a police patrolman reported a fire in the shop, and first responders discovered the bodies of the girls inside. The victims had been shot in the head; some had been raped. A .22 and a .380 pistol were used to commit the murders, and the perpetrator(s) probably exited out through a back door that was found unlocked. The organized method of operation, ability to control the victims, and destruction of evidence by arson pointed to an adult experienced in crime rather than teenagers, according to one of the original detectives on the case. Austin Police Department has DNA from an unknown male as a result of one of the rapes.[1] A Y-chromosome match for the perpetrator DNA has been found in a research database of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) but it has declined to reveal the identity of the man in accordance with the law of anonymity for donors, and because thousands of men could bear this fragment of DNA, which is unable to identify individuals."


Heinous crime.

I don't quite get the FBI thing.

But at this point I would think the DNA could be sent to one of the DNA analysis centers used in conjunction with other cold crimes that have been solved.

I actually lived down the street from the yogurt place back then and was driving right by it when a line of police cars arriving on the scene almost ran me off the road. I knew something major was happening because of how fast they were going. There were rumors back then that a couple of guys I grew up with were responsible. I think they were questioned but never charged.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I actually lived down the street from the yogurt place back then and was driving right by it when a line of police cars arriving on the scene almost ran me off the road. I knew something major was happening because of how fast they were going. There were rumors back then that a couple of guys I grew up with were responsible. I think they were questioned but never charged.

You look at the timeline and there was an awfully lot that occurred between the time the girls started their closing procedure and the fire was reported.

While money and some personal items were stolen, I think it started out as a sex-crime. There was no attempt to get into the back office where if there was any money up & beyond the cash register, that's where it would be. And we know there had to be at least 2 involved.

Here's hoping it gets solved.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Two recent cases of submerged cars holding humans remains of long missing individuals...

https://news.yahoo.com/scuba-diving-youtuber-discovers-submerged-162217639.html

https://news.yahoo.com/car-missing-college-student-skeletal-184040179.html

Either case could have been as the result of violence against them, but I would bet in both instances the drivers simply went off the road (for whatever reason) and into the water.

Always thought that would be a dreadful way to perish. Drive off the road and no one knows that you did, but with today's vehicles with some GPS involved maybe not a likely.

Whenever one of these cases comes up I think of the case in Oklahoma where two cars were found nearly side by side... One had gone missing in the mid 60's I believe and the other in the early 70's... Each had 3 people in their car if I recall.

 

[SlammedZero]

You look at the timeline and there was an awfully lot that occurred between the time the girls started their closing procedure and the fire was reported.

While money and some personal items were stolen, I think it started out as a sex-crime. There was no attempt to get into the back office where if there was any money up & beyond the cash register, that's where it would be. And we know there had to be at least 2 involved.

Here's hoping it gets solved.

Dang, I went down that rabbit hole. Interesting, albeit incredible heart-breaking, case. They had some teenagers admit to it, even do some time, yet they are out now due to the DNA evidence and the case is still unsolved. So strange. Hope the real culprits get caught. I cannot put the appropriate words on this forum about what I think of people that rape and murder kids.

Two recent cases of submerged cars holding humans remains of long missing individuals...

https://news.yahoo.com/scuba-diving-youtuber-discovers-submerged-162217639.html

https://news.yahoo.com/car-missing-college-student-skeletal-184040179.html

Either case could have been as the result of violence against them, but I would bet in both instances the drivers simply went off the road (for whatever reason) and into the water.

Always thought that would be a dreadful way to perish. Drive off the road and no one knows that you did, but with today's vehicles with some GPS involved maybe not a likely.

Whenever one of these cases comes up I think of the case in Oklahoma where two cars were found nearly side by side... One had gone missing in the mid 60's I believe and the other in the early 70's... Each had 3 people in their car if I recall.

I saw this! This seems to be a new trend going on (scuba-divers looking for missing persons). I saw one channel, Adventures with Purpose, in the news and started following their channel. Interesting stuff. I will link it below for anybody that wants to check it out. From what I read, they didn't start out with the intent of going down this career path, if you will. They were just diving one day and happened to stumble upon a missing person submerged in a vehicle. They felt so rewarded helping close a case that they decided to start doing it full time with the channel.

https://www.youtube.com/c/AdventureswithPurpose

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

Two recent cases of submerged cars holding humans remains of long missing individuals...

https://news.yahoo.com/scuba-diving-youtuber-discovers-submerged-162217639.html

https://news.yahoo.com/car-missing-college-student-skeletal-184040179.html

Either case could have been as the result of violence against them, but I would bet in both instances the drivers simply went off the road (for whatever reason) and into the water.

Always thought that would be a dreadful way to perish. Drive off the road and no one knows that you did, but with today's vehicles with some GPS involved maybe not a likely.

Whenever one of these cases comes up I think of the case in Oklahoma where two cars were found nearly side by side... One had gone missing in the mid 60's I believe and the other in the early 70's... Each had 3 people in their car if I recall.

That was Foss Lake in Oklahoma, about 2 hours to the west of where I reside. And you are correct, what a dreadful way to perish. I have been in the backseat of a 1969 Camaro a few times and there isn't a whole of room back there. Very claustrophobic. Add 2 people to the front seats and escape would be highly improbable, especially in a panicked scenario.
Cold cases solved: IDs of Foss Lake remains confirmed | CNN

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

Dang, I went down that rabbit hole. Interesting, albeit incredible heart-breaking, case. They had some teenagers admit to it, even do some time, yet they are out now due to the DNA evidence and the case is still unsolved. So strange. Hope the real culprits get caught. I cannot put the appropriate words on this forum about what I think of people that rape and murder kids.



I saw this! This seems to be a new trend going on (scuba-divers looking for missing persons). I saw one channel, Adventures with Purpose, in the news and started following their channel. Interesting stuff. I will link it below for anybody that wants to check it out. From what I read, they didn't start out with the intent of going down this career path, if you will. They were just diving one day and happened to stumble upon a missing person submerged in a vehicle. They felt so rewarded helping close a case that they decided to start doing it full time with the channel.

https://www.youtube.com/c/AdventureswithPurpose

Interesting channel, got it booomarked.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

That was Foss Lake in Oklahoma, about 2 hours to the west of where I reside. And you are correct, what a dreadful way to perish. I have been in the backseat of a 1969 Camaro a few times and there isn't a whole of room back there. Very claustrophobic. Add 2 people to the front seats and escape would be highly improbable, especially in a panicked scenario.
Cold cases solved: IDs of Foss Lake remains confirmed | CNN

Yeah, the Foss Lake situation was bad... It's always bad when you find one car with human remains in it, but when you have TWO! Wow!

Sorry for the families... But glad they eventually got answers.

I thought it was interesting at the beginning there was some scuttlebutt about possible violence involved at least with the kid's car. Fortunately that sort of dried up.

Looking at the map of the area it seems pretty clear to me what happened...

I can see that road that bisects with Marina Road and with the road to the boat ramp, it forms a 4-way intersection. I would bet the drivers of both cars, while probably knowing there was a lake in the area, weren't familiar with this 4-way intersection so they just figured by going straight across the Marina Road and continued on the short boat ramp road and thinking they were on the same road as before. But being dark and not familiar with the road network around the lake they continued right on the boat ramp road– Until they ran out of road.

 

[shabazz]

And of course one of the all time favorite.

Took the Ripper tour while in Whitechapel.......creepy place.

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

Yeah, the Foss Lake situation was bad... It's always bad when you find one car with human remains in it, but when you have TWO! Wow!

Sorry for the families... But glad they eventually got answers.

I thought it was interesting at the beginning there was some scuttlebutt about possible violence involved at least with the kid's car. Fortunately that sort of dried up.

Looking at the map of the area it seems pretty clear to me what happened...

I can see that road that bisects with Marina Road and with the road to the boat ramp, it forms a 4-way intersection. I would bet the drivers of both cars, while probably knowing there was a lake in the area, weren't familiar with this 4-way intersection so they just figured by going straight across the Marina Road and continued on the short boat ramp road and thinking they were on the same road as before. But being dark and not familiar with the road network around the lake they continued right on the boat ramp road– Until they ran out of road.

Very mind boggling that at least one of those 6 couldn't escape, i did read somewhere that the front end of the Camaro had damage to the radiator and other parts which means they were traveling at a high rate of speed, they might have been knocked around inside the vehicle which diminished their ability to get out.

 

[shabazz]

Technology is way ahead of the perps these days. The advent of skin cell DNA and the M-Vac that rehydrates compromised, aged , DNA are game changers.....they could probably capture a perps fart lingering and DNA trace the manufacturer

 

[lukin2006]

Canada has had some interesting true crimes take place…and for those that don’t know, in Canada it’s rare for a murderer to spend more than 25 years in jail.

Some of the more interesting ones I’ve followed are:

Paul Bernardo and Karl Homolka …

He was at first the Scarborough rapist and after he met her, the two went on to rape and murder 3 teenagers…one of the murdered teens was the sister of Karla Homolka. She served 12 years after getting a sweat heart plea deal, he has had 2 parole hearings and get to traumatize the families every 2 years…
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/paul-bernardo-and-karla-homolka-case

Jason Cofell…

This happened in a town I lived in for 20 years…He killed a teenage boy and his grandparents. He was convicted of 3 counts of 1st degree murder. He is currently on parole. Crazy, eh.
https://globalnews.ca/news/6436822/triple-murderer-jason-cofell-full-parole-live-in-peterborough/

The case of Guy Paul Morin…accused of murdering a child acquitted at his 1st trial and found guilty at his 2nd trial (Canada does not have double jeopardy). He always maintained his innocence and DNA later cleared him. DNA also located the real killer who is deceased now. I followed this trial closely. I never believed he committed the murders. He was a victim of crooked cops and prosecutors. He was compensated. The cop who charged him originally has never apologized.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Paul_Morin

Steven Truscott…he was 14 when he was convicted of murdering a classmate and sentenced to hang, he served about a decade in jail and was paroled. He was not physically capable of committing the crime and always maintained his innocence and was eventually cleared of the charges in the 2000s and was compensated..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Truscott

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Very mind boggling that at least one of those 6 couldn't escape, i did read somewhere that the front end of the Camaro had damage to the radiator and other parts which means they were traveling at a high rate of speed, they might have been knocked around inside the vehicle which diminished their ability to get out.

If I recall both cars had alcoholic containers in them... And I don't think it would be a surprise to find out all 3 in the Camaro were under the influence to some extent which would have hampered their ability to react, but yeah they probably received quite the jolt which impaired them even more.

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

If I recall both cars had alcoholic containers in them... And I don't think it would be a surprise to find out all 3 in the Camaro were under the influence to some extent which would have hampered their ability to react, but yeah they probably received quite the jolt which impaired them even more.

So many questions as to why will never be answered. A teenage boy, a muscle car and some alcohol are never a good mix. Very sadly it cost him his young life as well as his friends.

 

[Big_D]

12/30 on Netflix

The Times Square Killer - Richard Cottingham.

Him and his wife and kids lived across the street from us in the 70s. He was really a sick and twisted POS.

 

[SlammedZero]

12/30 on Netflix

The Times Square Killer - Richard Cottingham.

Him and his wife and kids lived across the street from us in the 70s. He was really a sick and twisted POS.

I just started this. I am an episode in so far and enjoying the content. Sounds like one sick puppy. Sorry you had to live across the street from him. Any interesting interactions with him?

 

[Big_D]

I just started this. I am an episode in so far and enjoying the content. Sounds like one sick puppy. Sorry you had to live across the street from him. Any interesting interactions with him?

I was a kid so nothing seemed out of the ordinary. His two sons seemed afraid of him and that also seemed normal to a 10 year old. I was friends with the kids who lived upstairs from them. A family with 3 girls around the ages of 10,12,15 in 1978 . I would imagine they had some interactions and red flags.

My mother at some point went to check out their apartment. Considering his "situation", they were probably looking to move at a moments notice on a regular basis even though they were in that house a few years ( 5 or more if I had to guess?). He wasn't home at the time, but you definitely got the sense that the wife was very subservient. He kept a room padlocked in the apartment and I'm paraphrasing, but something like.. "that's my husbands room, we're not allowed in there". Even if you're paying attention to current events, you're definitely not thinking the guy across the street is a serial killer. Specially someone as sinister and vile as the "torso killer". It's usually a ghost in those situations. Very scary after the fact for any woman or young girl living in the neighborhood.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Another old-time case solved through DNA.

A pair of teen hitchhikers in Oregon were found dead in November 1978.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/orego...ayer-and-kirk-wiseman?source=articles&via=rss

Unfortunately the suspect died in 1996 but at least there is resolution to the case.

 

[Silver Surfer]

Always had a morbid fascination with this stuff...

Imagine my surprise to see my high school classmate on "Forensic Files" for killing his wife!

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Always had a morbid fascination with this stuff...

Imagine my surprise to see my high school classmate on "Forensic Files" for killing his wife!

Any background you can share?

 

[SlammedZero]

Always had a morbid fascination with this stuff...

Imagine my surprise to see my high school classmate on "Forensic Files" for killing his wife!

Wife and I love(d) that show. Pretty sure we have seen most of them.