Unofficial DB 40 times as they occur

[Dough Boy]

Well, that's why I said PROBABLY. That's a commonly used term in the English language when you are trying to get the point across that what you are saying is not fact but a reasonable statement based on circumstances.

If you want to get technical on it, I recommend you do it with Jimmy Johnson. He was the one who originally made that statement, not me. However, it doesn't matter. He was still not a 1st round pick and so, he is not a good comparative as to why we should consider Mays at 27.

Clearly I'm irritating you and that was not my intent. Just wanted to talk shop. No need to get riled up. I wish you well the rest of the day.

 

[the kid 05]

6'3" - 230 lbs, 4.24!!!!! Does he have an 'S' under his shirt. Ties Chris Johnson.

Still stiff like Roy was in coverage.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I'd never make a S a LB, but especially not in a 34. You can have smaller LBs in a 43 like Thomas Davis is in. Like ABQ said, Edwards may have been undersized, but he was still a heck of a LB going back to college. The game just is too different for a S to play inside most of the time.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Parcells never drafted a small school player before Ware either. Just because it never happened, its not a great conclusion that it will never happen.

This isn't even close to true.

Ben Coates was drafted by Parcells out of Livingstone College in 91 in the 5th round.

Heck, Colston Weatherington was out of Central Missouri State, Peter Hunter was out of Virginia Union, Deveron Johnson was out of Sacred Heart, Zuriel Smith was out of Hampton, Crayton was out of NW Okla. St., DWare was out of Troy St., Beriault was out of Ball St., Hatcher was out of Grambling and McQuistan was out of Weber St. and that's just the guys he drafted while in Dallas.

I'm not sold on the idea yet, but I do like to think outside of the box. I'm sure there are more reasons not to do this than to proceed. However, I'm sure many on this board didn't want Ware in the 1st bc he was from Troy. In the end, whether we do it or not, our decision should not be, its never been done before so lets not do it; it should be - we the scouts and coaches do not think its going to work and thus its a bad idea

.

I have no problem drafting players according to how you project them into the NFL but not with 1st round picks unless there is substantial reasoning behind why you believe they will be successful in the projected transition.

With Mays, I don't see that. I'm against taking a player with a 1st round pick and expecting him to perform at a high level at a position he's never shown he can play and never shown the skills needed to be successful in said position.

JMO

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Clearly I'm irritating you and that was not my intent. Just wanted to talk shop. No need to get riled up. I wish you well the rest of the day.

Fair enough. I will try and thank you.

 

[Alexander]

Donnie Edwards played the 'bubble' 3-4 ILB for Wade. He played at 224 lbs, 6-2. Not a real thumber. What about our very own Kevin Burnett. No one would mistake him for being physical. 6-3, 239 lbs. Larry Foote, Pittsburgh 6-1 239lbs, not considered to be a thumber.

I'm not saying Mays can do it, just pointing out that lesser size players have done it.

Mays is not even in the league yet and he's already getting the old "Roy Williams can be a linebacker" treatment. Outstanding.

 

[Silverstar]

They were pretty slow last year too...

True, but there were more underclassmen this year and I was looking forward to seeing a few sub 4.4 times.

I'm just disappointed.

 

[Alexander]

This isn't even close to true.

Ben Coates was drafted by Parcells out of Livingstone College in 91 in the 5th round.

Heck, Colston Weatherington was out of Central Missouri State, Peter Hunter was out of Virginia Union, Deveron Johnson was out of Sacred Heart, Zuriel Smith was out of Hampton, Crayton was out of NW Okla. St., DWare was out of Troy St., Beriault was out of Ball St., Hatcher was out of Grambling and McQuistan was out of Weber St. and that's just the guys he drafted while in Dallas.

You forgot Dave Meggett of Towson and of course Phil Simms of Morehead State.

Clearly Bill Parcells has had a problem with small school players.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No one took T. Brady in the 1st, look how that turned out. Looking back on history its easy to not make any mistakes. GM's are paid the big bucks to get it right real time. If a GM thought that Mays will be an all pro ILB or WLB; then they should take him in the first. There are 32 teams now that would take Brady in the first round.

I get your point; at least I think I get it. You do not think Mays can go to ILB bc of his lack of physicality. I hope you are not saying, he can't do it because its never been done. If its the former and not the later - your point is taken. Again, I'm not sure he can make the switch. I don't watch film and only seen him play a few times. It seems you have watched him play a lot, so I'm not going to argue over the former (i.e., lack of physicality).

This is correct. Mays is not a form tackler and he has been most successful at FS playing down hill or essentially keeping everything in front of him and coming up to make hits. He doesn't use his arms well, he doesn't lower his hips or lock them in on impact. He uses his size to deliver blows, which are impact shots if he lands them on smaller Receivers. He does not take good angles many times and he is not a player who has ever really had to fight off blockers or shed a block to make a tackle, which is what he would have to do as a 34 ILB. I grant you that his skills in coverage, as a cover ILB in a 34 would be an asset but OCs would scheme him and force him to lock up in the run game if he were a starter for us. In that respect, he would have issues IMO. It is not something he has ever done and I don't know that it's something he could do. The possibility is there that he might be able to do it but I think the odds would be against it. This is the reason Burnett was never a starter for us. He was not physical enough to start for Parcells and too often injured. Essentially, what we ended up with was a 3rd down LB, which is fine but not if your using a 1st round pick on him.

It's not about size necessarily. It's more then that. You have to be able to play physical and you have to be able to last the season. I don't know that Mays could do that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You forgot Dave Meggett of Towson and of course Phil Simms of Morehead State.

Clearly Bill Parcells has had a problem with small school players.

Percells actually drafted a lot of Small School guys in his time. Heck, he's still doing it but yeah, Meggett and Simms are two perfect examples.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Simms was already there when Parcells took over, as were several of those Cowboys listed. But the point still stands, I know. Just sayin'.

 

[Dough Boy]

You forgot Dave Meggett of Towson and of course Phil Simms of Morehead State.

Clearly Bill Parcells has had a problem with small school players.

I think you missed my point. Most people on this board and in the media said that Parcells never drafted small school players. I said that was not true. My post above reflects that. I posted the same back in, 2005 to be exact. The point of the post, which I did not fully verbalize, was many said Parcells would not take a small school player in the 1st round. I'm sure many on the board remember that. I said then, and maintain to this day, you should take the best player regardless of school pedigree.

As far as Mays to LB, I never said I was 100% with the idea. Just thinking out of the box. I'm not a GM, just a guy that sometimes like to think out loud. Guess that's frowned upon here.

 

[CATCH17]

You hardly ever run in a straight line in the NFL so Mays 40 time still doesn't answer the questions I saw on the field.

Just say no to big lumbering safeties in the National Flag Football League.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Simms was already there when Parcells took over, as were several of those Cowboys listed. But the point still stands, I know. Just sayin'.

Actually Lab, Parcells was with the Giants in 79 as the DC, which is the year Simms was drafted and he was definitely the HC in NY in 89 when Megget was drafted. I know you only referred to Simms in the above post.


Parcells came to Dallas in 03? So your correct, Weatherington, Hunter and Johnson were all drafted prior to Parcells arrival but the rest, I believe, were all drafted by Parcells.

 

[DFWJC]

The point on Parcells sometimes drafting guys from "small schools" is true...but I personally would not lump, 30,000 student, D-1 Troy into that category...probably not Ball St either (but moreso than Troy). That's just me...D-1 schools are in the top category for a reason.

I know..I'm bored and splitting hairs. Maybe you all mean "non-BCS"? But that means TCU, BYU, etc would be small school.

 

[Dough Boy]

You forgot Dave Meggett of Towson and of course Phil Simms of Morehead State.

Clearly Bill Parcells has had a problem with small school players.

The point was how many in the First Round before Ware?

 

[DFWJC]

The point was how many in the First Round before Ware?

Ware was not from a real "small school" unless you want to call Utah, BYU, TCU, UCF, S Miss all small schools too. Troy is D-1, played in D-1 bowls, and has 30,000 students.
So point well taken regarding round 1.

 

[dmoore]

I think Mays is an interesting prospect. He's probably never been on a football field when he wasn't the best athlete. He's also been on great defenses at USC filled with first round draft picks. It's not going to be like that when he goes to the next level, but maybe that motivates him to work harder. His physical tools are impressive, as I can't think of anyone with a comparable speed to size ratio (maybe Campbell if you're talking lineman). I think there's a lot there to work with, and if our scouts like him I trust the coaching staff will be able to get the most out of him.

I also think that he has a pretty high floor. Five years from now, he's certainly going to still be in the league, whether it's as a LB in a 4-3 (think Urlacher) or just running down kicks. Guys with his athleticism are always going to be desired and given the chance to succeed in this league. I think I'd rather he was on our roster, with our coaches working on him, instead of a rivals.

Is his potential worth a 1st round pick? Who knows? He's a guy that I'll be keeping an eye on for sure.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The point was how many in the First Round before Ware?

OK, well, based on what you posted:

"Parcells never drafted a small school player before Ware either. Just because it never happened, its not a great conclusion that it will never happen."

I could not have known that your intent was to imply 1st Round.

 

[Dough Boy]

OK, well, based on what you posted:

"Parcells never drafted a small school player before Ware either. Just because it never happened, its not a great conclusion that it will never happen."

I could not have known that your intent was to imply 1st Round.

Point taken, I could did a better job of expressing the thought.