Update on our rushing game compared to rest of league

Wait, these stats are with Romo in the game. Let that sink in for a minute.
 
Doomsday101 said:
Then they need to run the ball better, you may not like it but Randle 3.7 (yes I will harp on that) and McFadden 2.9 is not getting it done that is why more passes to the RB to get them out on the edge.
As for 0 runs in 4th qrt kind of true, last play of the 3rd qrt Dallas ran Randle for 2 yards on 1st. next drive handoff to McFadden -2 yards the next possession was at the 8:01 mark down by 2 score
Click to expand...

This AINT just about the RBs . there are 5 olineman that need more opportunities to get in a groove run blocking.
 
It will probably get worse unless Weeden can make teams pay for 8 in the box.
 
50cent said:
Are you saying a drive that started with 5 minutes remaining on the clock in the 1st half is a time driven situation? This explains everything to me now. We are in hurry up with 5 minutes on the clock? With timeouts and a 2-minute warning 3 minutes down the road?

Those runs you saw in the third are the one that came after Romo injury! 29 passes , 15 runs. What changed after the Romo injury that couldn't have been done before? The score hadn't excpet for anSTscore in our favor. Those 29 passes accounted for a total of 6 points, but the run game needs to be tweaked?! Same for Giants game, 6 points at half with a pass first plan and somehow the run game gets judged.

We are averaging 6 points in the first half with this plan and its the run game that's stalling our production and getting in the way of our high octane passing attack!
Click to expand...

No I am saying you are hell bent on creating a narrative and finding situations to make it fit.

I don't think we are giving up on running the ball and on the drive Romo was hurt we ran it
3 times out of 6 plays and had a holding penalty on 1 of the runs.

Anyway this is all moot Romo is out and they ill be forced to lean on the running game so I really don't know what you are going on about.
 
It's interesting how someone will enter an opinion on some facet of the team's performance this season and when they receive criticism their defense is, hey, you can't judge a situation after only two games. And yet, their opinion was based entirely on that.

I think that the position of RB require the most instinctive traits. You really can't teach some of the things that make a RB truly great. A RB can improve with experience and study to a degree but it won't take them from being average to elite. They either have it or they don't.

It's not just being physically gifted. An elite RB is a true football player with the vision, the instinctive ability to sense the flow of his blockers and opponents. it requires a desire, an inspired dedication if you will, to be the Man. These guys are rare, usually no more than a half dozen per season.

All the great ones had it, not necessarily the most physically gifted. Peterson has it, Murray has it, Emmitt most certainly had it. McFadden, for all his physical gifts, does not have it. Randle does not have it at the NFL level. He can be a change of pace, but he will never be the Man. Randle, much like Marion Barber, is a situational back pressed into a role beyond his ability. If he does manage to make it to a thousand yards with the help of this line then he will have reached his fullest potential.

Rushing for a thousand yards in a season is hardly an accomplishment, over the past 5 seasons an average of 15 RB's reach that mark, half the teams in the league annually had a thousand yard rusher. It basically means your RB was able to stay relatively healthy and carried the ball 12-18 times a game.

Forget stats like total yardage and overall yards per carry for now.

If your team is ahead or close going into the 4th quarter and your opponents has a prolific quarterback or offense, can your running game keep them on the bench? can they close the deal? Can your RB pound it out when everyone knows he is getting the ball?

Last year Murray carried the ball 7 times in the 4th quarter against the Titans for 33 yards, a 4.7 average. He ran 8 times in the 4th quarter against the Seahawks for 50 yards, draining the life out of them. 6 times against the Texans for 31 years, over 5 yards a carry. 8 times for 63 yards against the Bears.

Last year Murray averaged 22 carries a game going into the 4th quarter. Do you see Randle having the stamina to go into the 4th quarter after 15 carries and capable of pounding the ball 5 to 8 times while keeping the drives alive? I just don't see it.
 
plasticman said:
It's interesting how someone will enter an opinion on some facet of the team's performance this season and when they receive criticism their defense is, hey, you can't judge a situation after only two games. And yet, their opinion was based entirely on that.

I think that the position of RB require the most instinctive traits. You really can't teach some of the things that make a RB truly great. A RB can improve with experience and study to a degree but it won't take them from being average to elite. They either have it or they don't.

It's not just being physically gifted. An elite RB is a true football player with the vision, the instinctive ability to sense the flow of his blockers and opponents. it requires a desire, an inspired dedication if you will, to be the Man. These guys are rare, usually no more than a half dozen per season.

All the great ones had it, not necessarily the most physically gifted. Peterson has it, Murray has it, Emmitt most certainly had it. McFadden, for all his physical gifts, does not have it. Randle does not have it at the NFL level. He can be a change of pace, but he will never be the Man. Randle, much like Marion Barber, is a situational back pressed into a role beyond his ability. If he does manage to make it to a thousand yards with the help of this line then he will have reached his fullest potential.

Rushing for a thousand yards in a season is hardly an accomplishment, over the past 5 seasons an average of 15 RB's reach that mark, half the teams in the league annually had a thousand yard rusher. It basically means your RB was able to stay relatively healthy and carried the ball 12-18 times a game.

Forget stats like total yardage and overall yards per carry for now.

If your team is ahead or close going into the 4th quarter and your opponents has a prolific quarterback or offense, can your running game keep them on the bench? can they close the deal? Can your RB pound it out when everyone knows he is getting the ball?

Last year Murray carried the ball 7 times in the 4th quarter against the Titans for 33 yards, a 4.7 average. He ran 8 times in the 4th quarter against the Seahawks for 50 yards, draining the life out of them. 6 times against the Texans for 31 years, over 5 yards a carry. 8 times for 63 yards against the Bears.

Last year Murray averaged 22 carries a game going into the 4th quarter. Do you see Randle having the stamina to go into the 4th quarter after 15 carries and capable of pounding the ball 5 to 8 times while keeping the drives alive? I just don't see it.
Click to expand...

I absolutely loved this post.
Loved it.
But Murray does NOT have elite vision. He does not.
He has above average vision and above average patience with good instincts, BUT:

No bud. I'm sorry. He's a VERY GOOD running back.
VERY GOOD.
Not Elite. He had an ELITE line that helped him stay injury free and gave him easy, easy decisions to make hitting the hole. Randle was affected even moreso.
Easy decisions. Easy holes. And it's funny because as he was slowing down was when the OL was really hitting their stride so they were making him look better when he was actually slowing down and getting worse.
 
Corso said:
I absolutely loved this post.
Loved it.
But Murray does NOT have elite vision. He does not.
He has above average vision and above average patience with good instincts, BUT:

No bud. I'm sorry. He's a VERY GOOD running back.
VERY GOOD.
Not Elite. He had an ELITE line that helped him stay injury free and gave him easy, easy decisions to make hitting the hole. Randle was affected even moreso.
Easy decisions. Easy holes. And it's funny because as he was slowing down was when the OL was really hitting their stride so they were making him look better when he was actually slowing down and getting worse.
Click to expand...

While it's a little more challenging to state my case in the aftermath of Sunday's game I have to point out some facts:

Last season actually lowered Murray's career average yards per carry. Two of his previous three seasons, he averaged over 5 yards a carry.

He ran for over 700 yards in his first 7 games as a rookie. Tyron Smith was a rookie starter at right tackle, the left tackle was Doug Free, the middle of the line consisted of Kyle Kosier, Phil Costa and Montrae Holland.

This great offensive line at the time were a bunch of college sophomores and juniors.

2012 was his worst season when he averaged 4.1 yards a carry behind a line composed of 5 starters that never played their position for the Cowboys.

And then this logic:

Emmitt Smith set a record yardage with an offensive line considered to be elite. he was considered to be elite.

Murray and this offensive line broke that record. If Murray is "average" then this offensive line is by far, superior to the O-line of the 90's.

True?
 
plasticman said:
It's interesting how someone will enter an opinion on some facet of the team's performance this season and when they receive criticism their defense is, hey, you can't judge a situation after only two games. And yet, their opinion was based entirely on that.

I think that the position of RB require the most instinctive traits. You really can't teach some of the things that make a RB truly great. A RB can improve with experience and study to a degree but it won't take them from being average to elite. They either have it or they don't.

It's not just being physically gifted. An elite RB is a true football player with the vision, the instinctive ability to sense the flow of his blockers and opponents. it requires a desire, an inspired dedication if you will, to be the Man. These guys are rare, usually no more than a half dozen per season.

All the great ones had it, not necessarily the most physically gifted. Peterson has it, Murray has it, Emmitt most certainly had it. McFadden, for all his physical gifts, does not have it. Randle does not have it at the NFL level. He can be a change of pace, but he will never be the Man. Randle, much like Marion Barber, is a situational back pressed into a role beyond his ability. If he does manage to make it to a thousand yards with the help of this line then he will have reached his fullest potential.

Rushing for a thousand yards in a season is hardly an accomplishment, over the past 5 seasons an average of 15 RB's reach that mark, half the teams in the league annually had a thousand yard rusher. It basically means your RB was able to stay relatively healthy and carried the ball 12-18 times a game.

Forget stats like total yardage and overall yards per carry for now.

If your team is ahead or close going into the 4th quarter and your opponents has a prolific quarterback or offense, can your running game keep them on the bench? can they close the deal? Can your RB pound it out when everyone knows he is getting the ball?

Last year Murray carried the ball 7 times in the 4th quarter against the Titans for 33 yards, a 4.7 average. He ran 8 times in the 4th quarter against the Seahawks for 50 yards, draining the life out of them. 6 times against the Texans for 31 years, over 5 yards a carry. 8 times for 63 yards against the Bears.

Last year Murray averaged 22 carries a game going into the 4th quarter. Do you see Randle having the stamina to go into the 4th quarter after 15 carries and capable of pounding the ball 5 to 8 times while keeping the drives alive? I just don't see it.
Click to expand...

Great post.
 
plasticman said:
While it's a little more challenging to state my case in the aftermath of Sunday's game I have to point out some facts:

Last season actually lowered Murray's career average yards per carry. Two of his previous three seasons, he averaged over 5 yards a carry.

He ran for over 700 yards in his first 7 games as a rookie. Tyron Smith was a rookie starter at right tackle, the left tackle was Doug Free, the middle of the line consisted of Kyle Kosier, Phil Costa and Montrae Holland.

This great offensive line at the time were a bunch of college sophomores and juniors.

2012 was his worst season when he averaged 4.1 yards a carry behind a line composed of 5 starters that never played their position for the Cowboys.

And then this logic:

Emmitt Smith set a record yardage with an offensive line considered to be elite. he was considered to be elite.

Murray and this offensive line broke that record. If Murray is "average" then this offensive line is by far, superior to the O-line of the 90's.

True?
Click to expand...

Good question and I would say "No" for this reason.
The game has changed significantly since the 90's and the game is called differently on top of that.

The running game has taken on a different persona league-wide.
Defenses and offenses are radically different now than they were then.

We can't compare Emmitt and the 90's to Murray and the Millennials.
It just doesn't compute empirically when you have to adjust the radically adjusted nuances to the game.

True?
 
Corso said:
I would like your response too, bud to what I just posted to him. I respect your opinions.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's hard to compare teams from the 90s with teams in the modern era of the NFL. But, at the end of the day, 1,800 yards rushing isn't something any RB can get. That's still relatively rare in the NFL. When you look at RBs with that amount of rushing yards or more, Murray is with some really good company. Murray is in the company of players like Dickerson, Peterson, Sanders, Davis, and Simpson. I think who Murray is comparable with in the list is someone like Ahmad Green; not a HOF, not legendary, but still a damn good RB deserving of praise. He also had 8 straight games going over 100 yards rushing. He did things last year that is rare for an RB, and I'm still really surprised people believed we could replicate it.

As for Murray's vision, I'll try my best to find the link to an article that broke down his carries last year and showed he didn't leave as much "meat on the bone" as many people have claimed. Did he have great vision? People tend to point out that he didn't make defenders miss in the open field or that he took a questionable cut out there as well; but I look at how he played inside the tackles, he always found the holes in the line even before the 2014 season and create good runs for us. His YPC in 2011 and 2013 tells us this.

Murray is obviously not on the level of the legendary RBs his rushing total from last year put him with on a list. At the same time, you don't find RBs like Murray in every draft.
 
AmberBeer said:
Only a fool would make a judgement about the running game for the year after only 2 games. Not even the media is that dumb.
Click to expand...

You do realize that stats are updated each week and that is why I said this is a first installment and that it will be interesting to see how the numbers change as we play more games

Seemed self explanatory that this was not a season prediction, just a snapshot of where we are right now compared to the rest of the league

And as far as the media goes, you are wrong about that too. Just yesterday on The Break at DC.com they were discussing this very thing. Broaddus even asked if this oline was overrated going into the season and that was why they were struggling so far this season
 
mattjames2010 said:
There's a video out there with every single handoff to McFadden in 2014. I know he's "your boy", but that Raiders O-Line is nowhere near as bad as what the Eagles have shown these past two weeks. I don't think you are understanding how terrible that line looked the other day, if I was a Philly fan, I would have been embarrassed.

It was so bad that there are Philly players claiming we knew the plays with how we were getting into the backfield so fast. Their line is near non-existent in the running game, they might as well be on the bench.
Click to expand...

lol yeah murray now has the 3 stooges blocking for him ! woo woo woo
 
Beast_from_East said:
You do realize that stats are updated each week and that is why I said this is a first installment and that it will be interesting to see how the numbers change as we play more games

Seemed self explanatory that this was not a season prediction, just a snapshot of where we are right now compared to the rest of the league

And as far as the media goes, you are wrong about that too. Just yesterday on The Break at DC.com they were discussing this very thing. Broaddus even asked if this oline was overrated going into the season and that was why they were struggling so far this season
Click to expand...

Then why do you keep arguing with me if you agree it's too early to make a judgement?
 
50cent said:
Are you saying a drive that started with 5 minutes remaining on the clock in the 1st half is a time driven situation? This explains everything to me now. We are in hurry up with 5 minutes on the clock? With timeouts and a 2-minute warning 3 minutes down the road?

Those runs you saw in the third are the one that came after Romo injury! 29 passes , 15 runs. What changed after the Romo injury that couldn't have been done before? The score hadn't excpet for anSTscore in our favor. Those 29 passes accounted for a total of 6 points, but the run game needs to be tweaked?! Same for Giants game, 6 points at half with a pass first plan and somehow the run game gets judged.

We are averaging 6 points in the first half with this plan and its the run game that's stalling our production and getting in the way of our high octane passing attack!
Click to expand...

you make some good points.6 points at half with a pass first plan is pretty bad.
I predicted that with murray gone, and romo feeling better they would drift back to passing more and they did.
I feel like it led to Romo getting beat up and then hurt.

I think with weedon, they will go back to trying to run more, but at same time teams are going to Stuff the run now , because they dont fear
weedon, and no dez, and no murray, or any back that intimidates defenses.

Atlantas new coach is a good DC and I think he may shut down dallas unless weedon shows he can pass as good as romo.
So this next game they may need to pass first and prove they can , and then start running.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Staff online

Members online

... and 15 more.
Total: 2,216 (members: 115, guests: 2,101)

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
466,181
Messages
13,921,360
Members
23,795
Latest member
Derekbsenior
Back
Top