USADA bans Lance Armstrong for life, stripped of tour titles *Merge*

[ABQCOWBOY]

If he cheated then how can you call Lance a great athlete?

Its like baseball.....take Performance enhancing drugs to break home run records and then proclaim them a great athletes?

I just dont know......Lance fought cancer....that is great.....but if he did take any performance enhancing drugs....then he should be banned....or taken those titles away from him.

The question is.....is there any proof?

It doesnt matter if every cyclists used drugs......it stil doesnt make it right.

It may be a witch hunt....or whatever....I dont know.

But if he cheated....in any way....I dont care how....or why......then he is no better then all the other cheaters in sports.......and being a spokesmen for cancer and all the good things he has done....shouldnt blind us from the fact he may be a cheater.

Sorry.....I dont have any tolerance for cheaters.....I hate it when I play a friendly game of cards and I especially hate it when you create rules to make everything a even playing field...and someone goes out of their way to cheat so they can succeed....and get paid.

Again....JMHO

How much tolerance do you have for people who convict a person with no proof?

What you just posted is fine but if there's no proof, what then?

 

[Wimbo]

Lance's statement - good read.

Lance Armstong's Statement of August 23, 2012
AUSTIN, Texas - August 23rd, 2012 - There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a two-year federal criminal investigation followed by Travis Tygart's unconstitutional witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense.
I had hoped that a federal court would stop USADA’s charade. Although the court was sympathetic to my concerns and recognized the many improprieties and deficiencies in USADA’s motives, its conduct, and its process, the court ultimately decided that it could not intervene.
If I thought for one moment that by participating in USADA’s process, I could confront these allegations in a fair setting and – once and for all – put these charges to rest, I would jump at the chance. But I refuse to participate in a process that is so one-sided and unfair. Regardless of what Travis Tygart says, there is zero physical evidence to support his outlandish and heinous claims. The only physical evidence here is the hundreds of controls I have passed with flying colors. I made myself available around the clock and around the world. In-competition. Out of competition. Blood. Urine. Whatever they asked for I provided. What is the point of all this testing if, in the end, USADA will not stand by it?

Read more:
http://lancearmstrong.com/news-events/lance-armstongs-statement-of-august-23-2012

 

[a_minimalist]

I think this is all a witch hunt. The man is retired. During his career he was tested more than anyone in the history of sports. The tests were random, unannounced, and failure to comply meant forfeiting his season. They even stopped him while he was loading his wife (who was in labor) into the car so he could drive her to the hospital... he had to submit a test before he could take her or forfeit his ability to compete. The only "positive" test ever he had was for a small trace of a cortico-steroid in 1999. The trace was too small to register a "positive" result. Lance was cleared when his team produced a medical certificate showing that he used a cream to treat saddle sores & the cream contained the substance. Guys, this is the over the counter stuff like Cortizone-10 or Aveeno that you get at your local grocery store.

I sent emails to the USADA this morning to let them know I think their methods and actions have been shameful and misguided. Also that I did not think Federal tax money should support an organization that performs a redundant service already being performed by private agencies. I then sent emails to my State's Senators and my district's US Representative outlining how Federal funding of the USADA is wasteful and unconstitutional, especially in a time when we are operating in a major deficit.

Lance is a national hero, not only for his accomplishments on the bike, but for using his celebrity status to raise money and awareness for a really good cause. He deserves better than the treatment he is receiving from the USADA, and people should be stepping up to show their support of a man who has not been proved guilty of anything.

For people who say he should still be fighting it... well, maybe so and maybe not. Think about it - while the taxpayer funded association is allocating all of these resources to punish him without proof, Lance has had to fund his own defense -both time and money - over something for which there is no proof. I can't blame him for just wanting it to be over.

Well said.

 

[a_minimalist]

For people who say he should still be fighting it... well, maybe so and maybe not.

I could be wrong, but after watching my father beat leukemia, there was one thing I noticed. I noticed a new perspective and a recognition of how valuable time is to each person. I doubt he wants to waste any more precious time fighting this nonsense. I don't blame him. In the grand scheme of things, is it really worth fighting it? Probably not.

 

[YosemiteSam]

You know it's a witch hunt by Travis Tygart when you Google Image search the name Travis Tygart, and 95% of the pictures aren't of Travis Tygart, but of Lance Armstrong.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Why do so many people worship this guy?

And why do they think the USADA would unfairly decide to target the most famous US cyclist in history? What would be their motivation?

Like one article said, there are more eyewitness reports and other evidence that Armstrong doped than that Barry Bonds did.

I'm anti-steroids and anti-HGH and other drugs similar to those because I think they are a public health issue. I think the government is served to protect the people and sometimes they have to do things to protect the people from themselves. With drugs like steroids and HGH, not only are the side effects often lethal, but as we saw from the baseball era, it influenced a generation of kids to start taking the drugs because their idols were taking them. To make matters worse, it became difficult for parents to detect thsi as many of the side effects and results of steroid and HGH use by teens are similar to what a teen can go thru naturally during puberty.

That being said, I don't know what the dangers are of blood doping. If it's generally a safe practice that enhances performance, I really don't see the issue.

So I take issue with the steroids and HGH because I think that has a harmful impact on society and excusing it as 'everybody else does it', does not make it okay.

The problem I have with the agencies is that they seem to have changed their tune on Armstrong. First it was HGH or steroids. Now it's been more about doping. All the while they really have not had any evidence and are relying on Floyd Landis, a guy who steadfastly denied doping and was eventually caught with irrefutable evidence to the point where he admitted he lied.

If they can get this irrefutable evidence for so many cyclists, why can't they do the same for Lance Armstong? Why is it always a circumstantial and assumptive situation relying on witnesses who have a track record of lying and cheating?

As far as the USADA's motives, even the judge questioned their motives. And who knows, all it takes is one Mike Nifong to be obsessed about it.

I personally can't stand cyclists. I used to deal with those recreational idiots all of the time when I lived in Atlanta. One of the morons slammed into my car which was parked at a stop light and then yelled at me. And I'm not sure why I would really care about blood doping.

But in this country you're innocent until proven guilty and the USADA along with the other agencies have gone after Armstrong as doggedly as any athlete in any sport and their evidence has been mediocre at best.

I don't worship Lance Armstrong by any means, but I have little reason to think what he has done is bad and would like to see better than mediocre evidence and brow beating before I think any doping agency starts proclaiming victory.







YR

 

[Mash]

How much tolerance do you have for people who convict a person with no proof?

What you just posted is fine but if there's no proof, what then?

I think I mentioned that....It has to be proven.

I have no sides on this.....seems like a witchhunt....but then again...where there is smoke there is fire.

All I meant to say....It doesnt matter about all the good things he has done...etc....If he did cheat......then I have no respect for him.

thats all

 

[Wimbo]

I think I mentioned that....It has to be proven.

I have no sides on this.....seems like a witchhunt....but then again...where there is smoke there is fire.

All I meant to say....It doesnt matter about all the good things he has done...etc....If he did cheat......then I have no respect for him.

thats all

The smoke you see is from the hunter's torch.

 

[Mash]

The smoke you see is from the hunter's torch.

may well be........we dont know.....

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think I mentioned that....It has to be proven.

I have no sides on this.....seems like a witchhunt....but then again...where there is smoke there is fire.

All I meant to say....It doesnt matter about all the good things he has done...etc....If he did cheat......then I have no respect for him.

thats all

Yes Mash, you started your post out by saying "If he cheated" but then you went on a fairly lengthy tirade about Armstrong that is none to flattering IMO. At what point does the discussion become, "If he cheated, then it's fine to say what you will but until you have proof, stop with the accusations and all the rest?" Don't you feel as if that is how this should be handled? It is not right to accuse somebody of things or write all these damaging articles insinuating things or striping things with no proof. That's just wrong.

I find you to be a good poster and I know that you are not a guy who is generally unfair. I'm just asking why you don't see this in the light I describe as opposed to the one I think you might be seeing him in?

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

I personally can't stand cyclists. I used to deal with those recreational idiots all of the time when I lived in Atlanta. One of the morons slammed into my car which was parked at a stop light and then yelled at me.

They are a major nuisance on the roads for sure. They act as if they have more of a right to the road than motor vehicles do.

They should be banned from roadways and restricted to bike paths and side walks.

 

[DallasCowpoke]

The USADA has NO jurisdiction to "strip" results from a competition that takes place off US soil.

They can ONLY share their rulings and recommendations to the ICU, who likewise, has no jurisdiction to make decisions for individual tours.

Ultimately, ONLY the directors of the Tour de France can decide what happens.

It's weird to me that this is being so GROSSLY misreported?

 

[Mash]

Yes Mash, you started your post out by saying "If he cheated" but then you went on a fairly lengthy tirade about Armstrong that is none to flattering IMO. At what point does the discussion become, "If he cheated, then it's fine to say what you will but until you have proof, stop with the accusations and all the rest?" Don't you feel as if that is how this should be handled? It is not right to accuse somebody of things or write all these damaging articles insinuating things or striping things with no proof. That's just wrong.

I find you to be a good poster and I know that you are not a guy who is generally unfair. I'm just asking why you don't see this in the light I describe as opposed to the one I think you might be seeing him in?

Sorry brother....I didn't mean to pick a side.....I guess what I was trying to say was how can he be a great athlete if he is on drugs? I have nothing against Lance......I hope he wasn't doin any of those drugs for the purpose to win....

But I don't think anyone knows the truth except Lance......

And yes the whole governing body is a joke......it's poorly run...

 

[jterrell]

ROFL. Let's be very clear here. Lance Armstrong ABSOLUTELY used PEDs and blood doping. He was irregular in more tests than cleared. He was able to challenge a few results and get them dismissed but top cyclists are good at this. They do it for a living. Not just ride but also beat tests. Technology has improved and so has testing. They have Lance's blood and urine still and can conduct tests. Lance gave up this fight because he knew he couldn't win.

All that said, Lance is still an amazing guy. He has raised more money for cancer research than just about anyone.

But he is very human. He has made the same mistakes other humans make. The same mistakes other cyclists make.

Time to simply move on and let his legacy be the fight against Cancer.

Only truly pathetically naive people believe he is innocent of all charges. The "proof" would have been presented had he challenged this USADA finding. That's EXACTLY why he didn't.

 

[a_minimalist]

Lance gave up this fight because he knew he couldn't win.

The "proof" would have been presented had he challenged this USADA finding. That's EXACTLY why he didn't.

I love how you pretend to know these two things and present them as if they are fact.

It doesn't matter if he did or didn't anymore. What matters is that they've harassed him for years without being able to provide more than hearsay. Hopefully you're never presented to the judicial system and found guilty based on hearsay alone, because that's not fair. That's something any free person should be afforded, proven facts that is. Everyone should be innocent until proven guilty.

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

I love how you pretend to know these two things and present them as if they are fact.

It doesn't matter if he did or didn't anymore. What matters is that they've harassed him for years without being able to provide more than hearsay. Hopefully you're never presented to the judicial system and found guilty based on hearsay alone, because that's not fair. That's something any free person should be afforded, proven facts that is. Everyone should be innocent until proven guilty.

Not being proven in a judicial sense, and knowing something outside of the judicial sense are two different things.

Just sayn'

 

[a_minimalist]

Not being proven in a judicial sense, and knowing something outside of the judicial sense are two different things.

Just sayn'

That's true.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I love how you pretend to know these two things and present them as if they are fact.

It doesn't matter if he did or didn't anymore. What matters is that they've harassed him for years without being able to provide more than hearsay. Hopefully you're never presented to the judicial system and found guilty based on hearsay alone, because that's not fair. That's something any free person should be afforded, proven facts that is. Everyone should be innocent until proven guilty.

I don't know what USADA has on him, but they wouldn't have gone as far as stripping him of his titles unless they had something. They say they have blood samples that are consistent with blood doping, and testimony from several former teamates (IE, more than just Floyd Landis).

People (myself included) will believe what they want to about this, and while I do believe there is a point where "Enough is enough," I have to say there was a lot of incentive for him to quit fighting now. By quiting now, whatever evidence USADA has will not be presented to the world, and what ever testimony from his several teamates, will not be heard.

 

[Wimbo]

Sounds like Lance's major sponsors are not convinced in the USADA's allegations or authority...

A spokesman for Nike provided a statement, saying: "We are saddened that Lance Armstrong may no longer be able to participate in certain competitions and his titles appear to be impacted. Lance has stated his innocence and has been unwavering on this position. Nike plans to continue to support Lance and the Lance Armstrong Foundation, a foundation that Lance created to serve cancer survivors."

Paul Chibe, vice president of U.S. marketing for Anheuser-Busch, which is a named sponsor of Livestrong, said, "Our partnership with Lance remains unchanged."

Trek, the bike company with whom Armstrong has a sponsorship agreement, said it is analyzing the situation and following developments. The company also sells two fitness-style bikes that are branded "Livestrong."

Len Zanni, vice president of marketing for Honey Stinger, another sponsor of the foundation is remaining as a sponsor. "Lance Armstrong is a member of our ownership team and he has played an important part in Honey Stinger's growth," Zanni said in a statement. "We look forward to working with him in this capacity to help increase our sales and build our brand. Additionally, we will continue our support of the Lance Armstrong Foundation as a sponsor of the Livestrong Challenge Series.

http://gma.yahoo.com/lance-armstron...cusations-162318764--abc-news-topstories.html

 

[a_minimalist]

I don't know what USADA has on him, but they wouldn't have gone as far as stripping him of his titles unless they had something. They say they have blood samples that are consistent with blood doping, and testimony from several former teamates (IE, more than just Floyd Landis).

People (myself included) will believe what they want to about this, and while I do believe there is a point where "Enough is enough," I have to say there was a lot of incentive for him to quit fighting now. By quiting now, whatever evidence USADA has will not be presented to the world, and what ever testimony from his several teamates, will not be heard.

Sometimes people think they have things, but they don't hold up. I don't know if he is guilty or not guilty. I personally don't care. I've developed enough of an opinion about the man to decided it doesn't matter to me. I think it's a joke that years and years of harassment and they are still going after he's passed random drug tests. If they've had something why is it just coming to light now though? Where was this information years ago? Some clearly wants to make a name for themselves and will do whatever it takes to do so. I think most people can tell that the whole thing is fishy.