Use the Tush Push to Counter the Tush Push?

[jwitten82]

This is a Rugby play. Get it out of the game. If the defense can't push each other, then the offense should not be allowed either.

Why is no other team as successful at it?

 

[Blackrain]

If the Eagles were on our 1 yard line in that formation, I would just purposely fire off pre snap every time destroying their offensive line until they stopped. Getting a penalty in that situation means nothing.

Now you're talking fire off and earhole there quarterback.
Since the play is virtually unstoppable do it every time smash their quarterback in the head take the penalty until they fear getting their quarterback hurt

 

[Sarge]

Don’t put yourself in a position to have to stop it.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

its very hard to stop the tush push. not an expert, but IMO I think the one way to do it is to have two DTs closely lined up in the middle across the center and on the ground (like ready to crawl on their knees) and just dive right under the center and take his arms out with a LB jumping right on top of them and create a pile that can't be pushed and LBs or safties behind them tush pushing as OP said. then any one of the safties or LBs to dive over the top and take out one of the wrs who is pushing. taking out any of the WRs and push goes away. but I think taking out the center or guards is key and you can't be in a football stand. on your knees, as low as you can go

 

[Kingofholland]

I believe defensive players cannot push one another in the same way; it's a penalty.

That's the issue, defense doesn't have an equal playing field.

 

[_sturt_]

1. The best defensive minds in the game have all studied it. The best theories have been constructed, and the best attempts to implement have been tried. I'll be fooling myself to pretend I can come up with some way of defending it that none of them have.

2. Yes, yes... so tedious to read by now, but yes... the best way to defend is to not let it happen. Okay. We get it. A thousand times, we get it. But it still happens, and it's a major advantage and no one's wrong to want to talk about it.

3. I will say this... on one of the tush pushes in the KC game, the sideline camera slo-mo showed at least one PHI lineman launched ahead of the snap and should have been called for illegal procedure. That's all I know to do, ask the ref crew to pay attention to that.

 

[shabazz]

What if your defense also pushes a talented and fast defender into the pile in order to stop the QB from being pushed and/or diving forward. Say, you have your bigger guys up front. Mazi, Tank, Hankins, Maybe throw Tyler Smith out there or OK give me Sam Williams or Armstrong.

Then, line up Parsons to go whichever way Hurts goes, and the team pushes him in to stop Hurts. If Hurts takes off, Parsons catches him.

Am I off my rocker here? Like, if we can stop the clock between plays to switch personnel how do you stop this play?

How would you draw up a play to stop the tush push?

The defensive lineman should just line up backwards when facing them and let nature take its course

If it’s inevitable, why fight it?

 

[_sturt_]

That's the issue, defense doesn't have an equal playing field.

Not sure. Have seen a lot of defensive players pushing each other w/o a call against them. Maybe that's because refs consider it pointless to call when the offense wins the down anyway (?). And maybe they would call it if the play failed more routinely. Dunno.

The issues are, in order of salience... math... and technique... and practice. I think we all get this.

PHI lines up with 4 300+ pounders and Kelce (295). No defensive line can match that anywhere. But then again, that's the norm that O-lines far outweigh what a given defense is going to put out there. Add to that, then, a QB famous for his leg presses and squats in the weight room, with a second surge inertia created as the rest of the team engages and pushes.

The issue is more why is there not a single other team in all of the league that has taken their equally-weighty O-line, equal ability to implement the technique, and equal capacity to practice the play... and become proficient.

The only thing PHI has that is necessarily special is Hurts' thigh muscles. But I'm just hard to persuade that that factor alone accounts for PHI's exclusivity here... other teams should be able to replicate this, if not as successfully as PHI, fairly commonly anyhow.

Soooo... my question isn't directed to Dan Quinn, "how do you stop it," but to McCarthy and Schottenheimer... "why isn't this part of your arsenal?"

The remedy is less about prevention, more about neutralizing the advantage by achieving at least some similar capacity on offense to win short yardage downs... that's my take.

 

[DallasCowboys2080]

I believe defensive players cannot push one another in the same way; it's a penalty.

so why is the defense not allowed to?

 

[Adreme]

If the Eagles were on our 1 yard line in that formation, I would just purposely fire off pre snap every time destroying their offensive line until they stopped. Getting a penalty in that situation means nothing.

Fun fact the refs in that situation could afford the team on offense an automatic TD in that situation. Basically if you are intentionally committing penalties. specifically multiple plays in a row, designed to make it so the play never happens the refs can just award the TD and flag you a personal foul which would then be assessed on the kickoff. It is generally associated with the reason you do not repeatedly just tackle offensive players in the endzone with sub 15 seconds left before half.

 

[Adreme]

Not sure. Have seen a lot of defensive players pushing each other w/o a call against them. Maybe that's because refs consider it pointless to call when the offense wins the down anyway (?). And maybe they would call it if the play failed more routinely. Dunno.

The issues are, in order of salience... math... and technique... and practice. I think we all get this.

PHI lines up with 4 300+ pounders and Kelce (295). No defensive line can match that anywhere. But then again, that's the norm that O-lines far outweigh what a given defense is going to put out there. Add to that, then, a QB famous for his leg presses and squats in the weight room, with a second surge inertia created as the rest of the team engages and pushes.

The issue is more why is there not a single other team in all of the league that has taken their equally-weighty O-line, equal ability to implement the technique, and equal capacity to practice the play... and become proficient.

The only thing PHI has that is necessarily special is Hurts' thigh muscles. But I'm just hard to persuade that that factor alone accounts for PHI's exclusivity here... other teams should be able to replicate this, if not as successfully as PHI, fairly commonly anyhow.

Soooo... my question isn't directed to Dan Quinn, "how do you stop it," but to McCarthy and Schottenheimer... "why isn't this part of your arsenal?"

The remedy is less about prevention, more about neutralizing the advantage by achieving at least some similar capacity on offense to win short yardage downs... that's my take.

I think I remember seeing on one of the prime time games they talked about Kelce having a very hard snap which also probably helps as it gets the ball there slightly faster thereby allowing him to start pushing sooner.

 

[Captain-Crash]

lol, I though he was going to say put dak out there on defense and push him into their push play. I'd like to see that.

 

[_sturt_]

very hard snap

Pardon my skepticism that this is actually a significant factor. Sounds more like something you make up to make yourself seem extra-analytical and, especially, to fill air time.

 

[SloMo_Joe]

Best way to stop the push is to hit the pushers. When they extend their arms to push have your DEs crash the edges and aim for the ribs. One or two shots to the ribs and they won't be interested in pushing anymore.

 

[DripTooHard]

Don’t put yourself in a position to have to stop it.

This can go a number of different ways though.

 

[blueblood70]

I see no way of any team really stopping it. Hurtz is too strong, and Kelce is too good. And certainly the Cowboys DTs and LBs have NO shot. So instead...

....I would make them pay for doing it. Just bring in your heaviest DTs and MLBs, and then pile on Kelce and Hurtz's backs until they blow the whistle. Make them FEEL every Tush Push, and eventually, all that weight will cause something to go awry at the bottom of the pile. So I think the DTs, LBs, and safeties should just erect a massive pile of bodies with all Eagles at the bottom. Eventually, one of these Eagles will be "sacrificed" for that Tush Push.

right, add some dirty under the pile stuff. cant see it it didn't happen.

 

[MyFairLady]

IMHO the best way to defend it is to make Hurts pay dearly every time they run it. It is free hits on the QB. Make it so Jaylon goes back to the sidelines and tells his coach to run something else.

 

[MyFairLady]

I see no way of any team really stopping it. Hurtz is too strong, and Kelce is too good. And certainly the Cowboys DTs and LBs have NO shot. So instead...

....I would make them pay for doing it. Just bring in your heaviest DTs and MLBs, and then pile on Kelce and Hurtz's backs until they blow the whistle. Make them FEEL every Tush Push, and eventually, all that weight will cause something to go awry at the bottom of the pile. So I think the DTs, LBs, and safeties should just erect a massive pile of bodies with all Eagles at the bottom. Eventually, one of these Eagles will be "sacrificed" for that Tush Push.

Precisely. If the want to put their QB and their stud OL in that position then make them suffer for it. It is bush league offense. There is no way Kelce enjoys it. He should be furious every time the coaches put him in that kind of compromised position on purpose. Make then pay. Knees on their arms and backs with 1,000 lbs pressing down. I doubt they would want to keep it going.

 

[Strykerscm]

You do all you can to break one of hurts’ fingers or roll his ankle/knee. Once that happens, the play goes bye bye.

 

[EGTuna]

2 words: Bernard Pollard. He goes after the two pushers (typically some combination of gaineell, brown and goedart).