Vela: Maybe Ellis is right?

[Ben_n_austin]

:laugh2:

This train of thought would have been decent last offseason when he was claiming he could not play outside linebacker.

He was wrong. And so are you.

And so the truth is born: You don't like Ellis as a player.

 

[Alexander]

This is where you're misunderstanding my stance. My problem here is that Greg was apparently told something by Jerry. And Jerry promised him a meeting.

So Greg wants a big fat not just a no, but a hell no?

He is pretty dense, but I thought even he would be able to read between the lines.

Giving him a raise, right now, as he demands, is sight unseen. He has yet to play a down of football. This is minicamp. He cannot prove he has recovered yet. Thus, no discussion. He is under contract and he is still rehabbing.

I don't have a problem with Greg earning his keep, but set some parameters. Show the guy a little respect. If only for the fact that he's been a Cowboy so long.

It's like welching on bet. You said you'd pay up, so pay up. Same holds true here. No promises have to be made. Just see how Greg plays, and if he performs well; pay him well.

You assume that a promise was made. I won't make that kind of guess, especially since Ellis has done nothing but imply through innuendo that it has. Come out and say it. Get some courage. If you believe that strongly about it, say it. Don't mince words. Stop mumbling like a coward.

On the other hand, you seem to be thinking that he'll be playing well enough to start. That speaks volumes as to how you think he'll recover. I mean, you think he'll recover enough to beat out a first round pick. Seems as if you have a lot of faith in the medicine you question.

He will start out of merit, experience and the "respect" you claim we don't have for him. And I believe he will eventually prove to be ineffective. As I have stated several times, despite your pathetic attempts to convince everyone otherwise.

But, according to you, it does say he'll play better than a young, athletic, stud, 1st round pick.

Man, that's pretty good for a 32 year old with an ACL injury.

No, that is your asinine spin on a comment I never made. You have a very active imagination. I will give you that credit.

This isn't the 9ers and this is 2007.

Is that all you have? We are not the 49ers and it is exactly two years later.

:laugh2:

So we have an infinitely better medical staff?

Again, these things you claim to know are mind-boggling.

Again, specifically, Greg Ellis is none of the examples you've cited.
Who would have thought T.O. could play on a broken leg - but he garnered over 100 yards in the SB. That's unheard of.

A broken leg. A ruptured Achilles. Different. Mongo confused? It sure sounds like it.

I'm just perplexed by your logic. You think he's going to perform poorly but he'll beat out Spencer. You must not think a lot of Spencer.

Who said the competition was open? It sounds to me Phillips already has his mind made up. But it is still mini-camp. And this player is already borderline hysterical because he isn't getting his head patted as he wants.

What is the real reason?

This should be good.

The reason is simple.

You cannot name a single player that fits the question I asked.

You would much rather speak in generalities, muttering on and on about general medical advances that do not apply and cite players who didn't even recover from the same sort of injury, produce and merit a new contract.

 

[Alexander]

And so the truth is born: You don't like Ellis as a player.

And the truth is also born. You like Ellis as a person and you allow that to cloud your perception.

I won't deny it. I am not impressed by his feats of altruism or acts of general all-around Good Guyishness.

It is sad that his image off the field is perhaps greater than any level he has ever achieved on it.

 

[Big Dakota]

Exactly when did professional football turn into a democratic organization?

That was the stupidest statement i've seen on here for some time. Can you imagine Oliver Hoyte saying to Parcells, "look Bill, i'm not being paid to play FB".

 

[Hostile]

I've been following this thread and I, too, have been waiting on a response to that.

Again, Greg should be upset with his agent who advised him to sign this current deal.

I have no problem with a guy who puts himself first when it comes to his livelihood. And I can't take issue with a player who has reason to feel he is undervalued and perhaps unappreciated.

But Greg Ellis was extended and he's under contract. It's not Jerry's fault that James Williams misread the market when the last deal was done. It sucks. Now bite the bullet and play ball.

Or don't.

The player here has absolutely no leverage.

Oh please scott, like me you're just taking this stance because it's the majority opinion.

:wink2:

You know how you and I are always on the side of the majority.

 

[DallasEast]

That was the stupidest statement i've seen on here for some time. Can you imagine Oliver Hoyte saying to Parcells, "look Bill, i'm not being paid to play FB".

It is funny and sad at the same time. I watched America's Game/The 1977 Dallas Cowboys again. It showed both Charlie Waters and Randy White changing positions. It worked out pretty well for both players, but Greg Ellis is resistant to change. Even if it's for his own good.

Oh well. What do old football coaches like Parcells and Phillips know anyway?

 

[Alexander]

It is funny and sad at the same time. I watched America's Game/The 1977 Dallas Cowboys again. It showed both Charlie Waters and Randy White changing positions. It worked out pretty well for both players, but Greg Ellis is resistant to change. Even if it's for his own good.

Oh well. What do old football coaches like Parcells and Phillips know anyway?

Did Randy White ask for a "commitment"? Afterall, he was taking a big risk moving from LB to DT.

Did the organization give Charlie the proper amount of "respect" before switching him from corner to safety?

 

[Big Dakota]

It is funny and sad at the same time. I watched America's Game/The 1977 Dallas Cowboys again. It showed both Charlie Waters and Randy White changing positions. It worked out pretty well for both players, but Greg Ellis is resistant to change. Even if it's for his own good.

Oh well. What do old football coaches like Parcells and Phillips know anyway?

I seem to remember Landry switching Tui fom DL to OL. I bet Mark marched into Tex's office and demanded a new deal

 

[DallasEast]

Did Randy White ask for a "commitment"? Afterall, he was taking a big risk moving from LB to DT.

Did the organization give Charlie the proper amount of "respect" before switching him from corner to safety?

Can't say that I recall hearing anything of the sort mentioned about both players. Maybe it was overlooked while they and their teammates were too busy winning a world championship? I don't know.

 

[DallasEast]

I seem to remember Landry switching Tui fom DL to OL. I bet Mark marched into Tex's office and demanded a new deal

:laugh2:

 

[ilovejerry]

AGS, you appear to have just crafted a response base on your own misunderstandings of people's thoughts.

First of all, the notion that Spencer is an adequate replacement, which is what I quoted in my post, is one put out there by Ellis himself, with his insecure "You've got your LB, what do you need me for now" statement. I have yet to see anyone suggest that Spencer as a full-time replacement would be an upgrade.

But Ellis, because of his constant fear of competition and insecurity about his own abilities, put that out there. It was just pandering, to continue to look like the "good guy" (as if he's being shoved out) but still, those are his words, not mine.

Almost noone has begged for Ellis' release. He's our player, he's not causing problems save for being a whiner, most say just force him to play, and earn his 2.5 million. He signed a contract equal to his worth, it's on him to play it out. I really don't care if he's upset that he signed a seven year deal that looks paltry now - HE signed it, and so HE must honor it so long as the team does so in return.

Clearly Ellis can help this team. Once he gets off the rag, and realizes that 2.5 million dollars is better than none, he'll be back and contributing fine. People are just tired of hearing it from him, and those of us who knew Ellis was all about the money for years now are tired of being told what a great guy he is, and what a great discount he gave us. It's all a crock of horse-crap, as Ellis is what he is. A selfish, whiny, insecure player who doesn't trust his own abilities enough to welcome open competition and establish himself - REALLY establish himself - as a team leader. He'd rather play 4-3 DE, rack up sacks through three months, get paid and disappear in December.

And that's fine.

He just doesn't deserve any more money for that underwhelming performance.

Very well put.

 

[Jack-Reacher]

Correct me if I am wrong but...

The term ACL and Achilles' are being confused.

An ACL is the "Anterior Cruciate Ligament" which does indeed hold the knee from moving side to side, while the Achilles is the tendon which runs down the back of the leg and attaches to the ankle. Achilles injuries are considered to be harder to come back from.

Jon

 

[WoodysGirl]

Oh please scott, like me you're just taking this stance because it's the majority opinion.

:wink2:

You know how you and I are always on the side of the majority.

Watch it or you'll be accused of being a smart *** again.

 

[ilovejerry]

He should get a raise because he switched positions? That's his job. He's a football player. You sign a contract and then you do whatever you can do to help your team. It was never written in stone that Ellis had to be a DE for the duration of his contract. Ellis helped the team by switching positions (although he whined like a little girl while doing it), that was very good of him, but that's what he gets paid for. Switching positions a few years ago doesn't mean we should pay him more money NOW when he's at the end of his career. That's just stupid.



Yes, he's playing out of his original position at a position that he doesn't seem to really like playing. Even more reason to pay him right?! Oh, wait....

He was not anywhere near our best player last year and the fact that he's so overrated by some people makes Bob Dole sick. He was decent enough, but he wasn't as good as Ware or Fergie up front. The defensive collapse would have happened with or without Ellis in the lineup. The defense was great in the three games following his injury.

I can remember a few Cowboys who switched positions on there careers to help the team win. And they nevr cried about it and some made the HOF, Please allready with this nonesense

 

[ilovejerry]

Only because you agree with what he says.

Uh no............. He is the one making the most sense. Your not. Its simple easy to see you avoid questions all the time.

 

[ilovejerry]

Thank you for taking my statements out of context, smart ***. The point I was making when I said I misspoke was that there are plenty of teams that would want Ellis and we all agreed that there were approximately half the teams in the league that would want him, thus my point was made and proven to be valid. Whether it was most or half is irrelevant to the matter.

and I don't get how this is a rash statement, "My position in the whole matter is Jerry shouldn't cave into his demands, but we shouldn't bash Ellis either because of all he has contributed to the team."

Secondly I also have the right to tell people they're wrong so if I want to open threads and do so I can, without the administrator telling me I can't.

People are, if they are bashing Ellis its for going to the media to air his dirty laundry. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Hostile]

Watch it or you'll be accused of being a smart *** again.

At least that is a lot more accurate.

 

[Hostile]

I seem to remember Landry switching Tui fom DL to OL. I bet Mark marched into Tex's office and demanded a new deal

This is such a good post. Remember Rayfield Wright at his Hall of Fame speech talking about how pissed off he was when Landry moved him to OT from TE?











Me neither, that is the point.

 

[ilovejerry]

Typo. And it's a basic philosophical term. You were saying that he would make a recovery, but he wouldn't make a recovery. Basically, that's what it means. An absolute contradiction. Which doesn't serve you, or your argument well.

I'll hire a personal editor by noon tomorrow.

Not at all, I just think it's funny that most people who are whinning and crying over Greg think that he could help the team out. He's just making a point to say, "hey, I'm switching positions for you and you said you'd take care of me". All there needs to be is a slight compromise. I don't think he's asking them to break the bank.

And allow me to reiterate, this statement is pure speculation. Your assumption holds no truth at the present moment. He was effective last year. And if he recovers this year, why would he not be effective?

Until you see how Greg Ellis' unique scenario pans out, all of this is merely conjecture and necessarily has no basis to support your claim.

In other words, no matter how much you and Hos beat your chests and shout out battle cries, you still won't know until the cards are played. And it just seems to me like you think that you already know. But obviously, there is no possible way that you could know because all you're doing is purely speculating.

In a 4-3 scheme at DE, I agree. With the new system, and him at LB, I disagree. He's a good player to have out there. His size, instinct and athleticism make him a unique player.

Yes or no answer. Do you think its right for him to play this out in the media?

 

[PJCOWBOYS]

I'm guessing you are also an expertise on that subject too, since you keep reminding us by your pompous attitude on everything else.

What's funny is, he is saying that I am dodging these medical question when he's talking out of both ends of his butt in regards to medicine.

In other words, Alexander is a worded son of a gun that doesn't have a clue.