Vela - why Felix should start

[UnoDallas]

Can't compare that together.. Felix would often be in the same backfield as Darren McFadden. Choice was doing it all by himself.

did you ever watch Felix in College ??????????????

 

[jobberone]

I enjoy all the talk about who, when, where, why and how. But I doubt it plays out that way talking specific roles. I don't agree with it anyway as I don't believe in general it's good to tip your hand.

There will be injuries that will dictate who plays and gets the snaps. And there will be hot runners against different defenses. And don't forget you don't always bring your A game. Physiologically speaking, not mentioning psychologically, the human body just isn't the same day in and day out.

There are going to be about 30-35 running plays a game in general. Some games more and some less. Forgetting injuries etc, that averages about 10-11 carries a back if equal. I don't see it that way. My guess is Barber if healthy will get the majority of the snaps at first. If they all stay healthy I expect the carries to go more towards Felix and away from Barber with a few to TC.

Barber doesn't have that big of an ego and he has his money. As long as he is contributing and bringing that emotional uplift as well as being 'appreciated' in a way he and his agent like, then he'll be happy with a reduced role. He'll be happy as a non-starter as well. Point being there is no huge reason not to play Felix esp if he continues to put big numbers and plays up.

It's fun to play what if but I'm happy with having 3 pretty good RBs.

PS: Felix is 212 which is bigger than Emmitt. Question of the day: if one back is getting 4+ a carry and another getting 5+ a carry who do you play? The next question is what is 25X5 minus 25X4?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't want to see Barber take another carry outside again

that's unless after he takes it inside and then bounces it outside

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't want to see Barber take another carry outside again

that's unless after he takes it inside and then bounces it outside

I thought he did extremely well on pitches to the right side. With Columbo pulling they got quite a bit of yardage out there. I also thought that was one of the drawbacks of Choice, he didn't run well outside or at least not often and it allowed the defense to cheat a bit.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

I'm back with another edition of my Felix Jones-is-Tiki Barber-redux campaign. Using K.C. Joyner's run metrics from Scientific Football '09 and from the new Maple Street Press Cowboys Annual 2009, I'm going to present more evidence why Dallas should return to the running back platoon it used so effectively in 2007 with Julius Jones and Marion Barber. What's more, I'm going to demonstrate why I believe Felix should get Julius old starters job and push Barber back into the closer's spot.

Joyner's "Dallas by the Numbers" piece in the Cowboys Annual records running back performance by run type. He lists seven types of running plays -- counters, draws, drives, isolations, off-tackles, slants/stretches and tosses/sweeps. I'm not going to present Joyner's breakdowns here (sorry folks, you'll have to buy the magazine) but I am going to repackage his stats in two categories.


I'm going to catalog two types of runs. "Between the tackles" runs are the isos, dives, draws and counters. Outside runs are off tackles, stretch plays and tosses and sweeps.

Inside Runs

Player Attempts Yards Yds. per Att.
Marion Barber 137 620 4.5
Tashard Choice 59 310 5.3
Felix Jones 17 133 7.8


Outside Runs

Player Attempts Yards Yds. per Att.
Marion Barber 94 243 2.6
Tashard Choice 32 156 4.9
Felix Jones 11 178 16.2


The difference on outside runs is staggering. Jones is a touchdown threat any time he takes the ball to a defense's perimeter. His inside numbers make the case to start him. Jones didn't get many inside carries last year, but he was just as much a touchdown threat on these plays.

Jones dominated across the board. He did not run a dive play last year, but he had team-best averages on five of the other six run types. Had Choice not posted a slightly better average on draws, Jones would have run the table.

Felix Jones has the look of a special back. He's bulked up to 212 pounds this offseason. He gives Dallas the best option on first downs, because defenses cannot stereotype him as a perimeter runner. If the do, he'll burn them on a counter or isolation run.

Make him the starter. He'll give the team better performances on early drives and he'll make Barber a better runner, by letting him reprise his role as a late-half hammer.

Sorry, off topic but what part of Tokyo are you in? I was there for about 4 years, first outside of Yokohama on the Sotetsu line, then down in Meguro-ku and then outside of Ueno.

 

[Alexander]

I'm amazed how in this thread this stat got no response. IMO it's about production. Add the fact Choice did this with our broken down offensive line and it's even more of a statement as to the talent of this guy.

It also came against teams who honestly were not preparing for him nearly as much as they were anticipating Barber. It could have had some effect. Not a lot, but you can't completely ignore that influence. Again, he's not a bad back at all. There just needs to be some perspective when annointing him as our best back over two others who have either been more decorated as professionals or collegiates and also, to be quite blunt, are simply more talented.

Everyone has preferences, but I think many get enamored with the idea of the big play. You make another great point about Choice being the only one of these guys to be a full-time starter in college and Jones and Barber have never had that role.

I am not sure what you are getting at here. Are you suggesting Choice should be the starter in what will absolutely be a platoon simply because he was a full-time starter in college?

So the two other backs who have played in a heavy rotation don't get consideration for having done it successfully before?

For all we know, Choice might not even be equipped to have a split workload. The games I saw of him in college, he was like many backs, better the more he carried the football. And the production he had last year was pretty much like that as well since Barber did not play much down the stretch.

 

[fanfromvirginia]

My ideal solution to this would be to mix it up. Keep opposing DCs guessing. If you find that some particular approach is working better than another, then you stick with it until it doesn't work.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

PS: Felix is 212 which is bigger than Emmitt. Question of the day: if one back is getting 4+ a carry and another getting 5+ a carry who do you play? The next question is what is 25X5 minus 25X4?

You play the guy getting 5 yards per carry.

 

[Doomsday101]

I hope to get all of our backs involved so it is not a big issue who starts it only matters what you do when you are on the field. If we were talking about a competition where the star back would be getting 20 to 25 carries a game it would be a bigger deal in this case we have 3 very good backs who starts is not that big of a deal in my opinion

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I hope to get all of our backs involved so it is not a big issue who starts it only matters what you do when you are on the field. If we were talking about a competition where the star back would be getting 20 to 25 carries a game it would be a bigger deal in this case we have 3 very good backs who starts is not that big of a deal in my opinion

If all 3 were equal in ability I would say you are absolutely correct.

But that's not how it works out in the real world. One of them will show more than the other two-- that's just how this stuff works. And that one should garner most of carries. No, it may not be 25 carries per game, but at least 15.

I remember ther Hershel/Dorsett era. And just like that time, one of these backs will establish themselves as the one that should get most of the action.

And just like the Hershel/Dorsett era, I can easily see one of these backs not being here after this season, i.e. trade.

 

[Doomsday101]

If all 3 were equal in ability I would say you are absolutely correct.

But that's not how it works out in the real world. One of them will show more than the other two-- that's just how this stuff works. And that one should garner most of carries. No, it may not be 25 carries per game, but at least 15.

I remember ther Hershel/Dorsett era. And just like that time, one of these backs will establish themselves as the one that should get most of the action.

And just like the Hershel/Dorsett era, I can easily see one of these backs not being here after this season, i.e. trade.

I think a legit case could be made for each of them to be the starter but in the end none will see 20 to 25 carries and because of that and the fact I think we will see them being rotated in and out as well as times when 2 of them will be back their together that who starts is not a major issue. Hell Barber may not start but could have more carries we will see.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I think a legit case could be made for each of them to be the starter but in the end none will see 20 to 25 carries and because of that and the fact I think we will see them being rotated in and out as well as times when 2 of them will be back their together that who starts is not a major issue. Hell Barber may not start but could have more carries we will see.

Initially I would look for Barber to get the majority of the carries, Felix 2nd and there will be weeks initially when I don't think Choice will get a single carry.

Now, the end of the year could pose a totally different scenario based on injuries and performance.

 

[WV Cowboy]

and there will be weeks initially when I don't think Choice will get a single carry.

After what he showed against great defenses at the end of last year, that would be pretty stupid.

Not saying that it couldn't happen, but it would be stupid.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

After what he showed against great defenses at the end of last year, that would be pretty stupid.

Not saying that it couldn't happen, but it would be stupid.

Well we seen the lack of Felix getting touches in the Skins game.

Just saying.:

 

[WV Cowboy]

Well we seen the lack of Felix getting touches in the Skins game.

Which we all agree was stupid.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

After what he showed against great defenses at the end of last year, that would be pretty stupid.

Not saying that it couldn't happen, but it would be stupid.

Then who do you sit?

Again, all you have is about 33 carries to divvy up per game...

Some see 3 good backs as a blessing. I think it's more of a curse.

One or maybe even two of these backs are going to be unhappy with their amount of touches.

 

[Doomsday101]

Then who do you sit?

Again, all you have is about 33 carries to divvy up per game...

Some see 3 good backs as a blessing. I think it's more of a curse.

One or maybe even two of these backs are going to be unhappy with their amount of touches.

I think it depends on how Dallas uses them. I do think we will see some split backfield using 2 of the 3 backs with Felix at times moving out to a wideout spot. I do agree it will be hard to keep them all satisified but I think there are things that can be done to get them all involved within games.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Then who do you sit?

Again, all you have is about 33 carries to divvy up per game...

Some see 3 good backs as a blessing. I think it's more of a curse.

One or maybe even two of these backs are going to be unhappy with their amount of touches.

My response was to the comment that TC would not carry the ball at all in some games.

I'm not suggesting any of them "sit".

But based on how we plan to attack each defense each week, mix it up so the DC for the opponent just does not know who will start for Dallas, nor will he know who he has to gameplan to stop.

Use each to their own strength as much as possible.

Garrett is supposed to be some innovative Offensive mind, which I have not seen just yet, but he has to find a way to utilize each RB, keep the defense off guard, try to keep each RB healthy by balancing carrys, and take pressure off of our passing game.

Each week, if two of the three RB's are doing well, then our offense should be moving the chains.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I thought he did extremely well on pitches to the right side. With Columbo pulling they got quite a bit of yardage out there. I also thought that was one of the drawbacks of Choice, he didn't run well outside or at least not often and it allowed the defense to cheat a bit.

earlier in the year, yeah, but I didn't see him gain much yardage off of them later in the year

Barber doesn't have great speed and d's know that to bring him down, you go for his legs

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I just wonder how long Red stays committed to the run. I have a feeling sooner or later he is just going to go back to being pass happy at times and then the number of touches each RB gets will be null and void unless it is in the passing game.