CFZ Veteran players on the bubble

CooterBrown

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You’re right about Charlie Waters. He started his career as a corner but was toasted so many times his rookie year he was switched to safety where he became an eventual 2 time All Pro.

You’re right about Charlie Waters. He started his career as a corner but was toasted so many times his rookie year he was switched to safety where he became an eventual 2 time All Pro.
Charlie Waters was a college QB who was drafted in the third round in 1970. He was switched to safety and competed with undrafted Cliff Harris for the free safety position. Landry chose Harris as the starter. Waters started 5 games at free safety while Harris was completing a military commitment. Waters was moved to CB in his second season, where he failed miserably. Cornell Green retired after the 1974 season and Waters found his natural position at strong safety in 1975.
 

xwalker

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Entering 2023, there are several veteran players who need to step up their performance this summer or face the prospect of being cut. In my book these are the veterans squarely on the cut bubble:
  • Kelvin Joseph- as he enters his 3rd season, KJ has been a major disappointment. His play on STs has been very good but as a 2nd round pick he should have already been a starter. When Anthony Brown went down last year, he had his opportunities but was far less than reliable. DeRon Bland has passed him and so has versatile Israel Mukamu. And the addition of Stephon Gilmore makes even more in danger of the cut knife. The physical skills are there but the bust clock is ticking.
  • Jabril Cox- drafted in the 4th round two years ago, Cox was seen as a steal. Two seasons later, Cox has been a disappointment. His pass coverage skills were supposed to be his strength but he has not shown enough to be reliable. DeMarvion Overshown is now the young LB with more raw talent than Cox. Like Joseph, he’s on a very short leash.
  • Neville Gallimore- unlike the previous two players mentioned, Gallimore he has earned some decent playing time. Going into a contract year, he’s been ok just not good enough to warrant a second contract. The drafting of Mazi Smith underscores that.
  • Jourdan Lewis- Lewis has been a very good player for several years. His foot injury last year ended a good season early for him But he’s more expensive and the development of Israel Mukamu has made him a bubble guy in my book.
  • Jalen Tolbert- early reports from OTAs has Tolbert being greatly improved. Last year was a complete disappointment for a guy drafted in the 3rd round. He cannot afford another bad TC.
Who else? Who’s on your list of guys in danger of a visit from the Turk this year?
Joseph has become the special teams ace.

In games that he didn't play CB, he averaged significantly more ST snaps than previous special teams are CJ Goodwin.

Tolbert (a rookie) played almost 3x the # of non-ST snaps as (2nd year player) Jabril Cox.

Cox has been a complete bust but fans will blame the coaches for not giving him a chance while fans will have thousands of complaint posts about Tolbert and Joseph...
 

quickccc

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If they’re not good enough for the 53 man roster, IMO they won’t be on the practice squad. That’s for developing players and those two wouldn’t be seen as still developing…again, IMO.
The dynamics of the NFL Practice Squad has apparently changed since the pandemic, we've had veteran guys such as Carlos Watkins cut and brought to and stashed
on the practice squad ..before he was eventually elevated to 53 roster again..

I believe vet LB Malik Jefferson was also on the squad last year as well.

Wasn't vet QB Wil Grier stashed on PS or was he on the 53 roster ?
Wasn't Grier elevated from PS to active list once Dak hurt,.. Rush filled in and Grier immediate backup?

Practice Squad is majority for developing players ...but it is no longer solely just for developmental players in today's NFL.
 

RonnieT24

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Joseph has become the special teams ace.

In games that he didn't play CB, he averaged significantly more ST snaps than previous special teams are CJ Goodwin.

Tolbert (a rookie) played almost 3x the # of non-ST snaps as (2nd year player) Jabril Cox.

Cox has been a complete bust but fans will blame the coaches for not giving him a chance while fans will have thousands of complaint posts about Tolbert and Joseph...
Maybe he would be if not for his bone headed penalties. Those drop him down to no better than a Jack or Queen.
 

MyFairLady

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Joseph is a second round pick who does not play because he sucks, cares more about his rap career than football and spends his free time murdering people with his idiot buddies.
 

Creeper

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Entering 2023, there are several veteran players who need to step up their performance this summer or face the prospect of being cut. In my book these are the veterans squarely on the cut bubble:
  • Kelvin Joseph- as he enters his 3rd season, KJ has been a major disappointment. His play on STs has been very good but as a 2nd round pick he should have already been a starter. When Anthony Brown went down last year, he had his opportunities but was far less than reliable. DeRon Bland has passed him and so has versatile Israel Mukamu. And the addition of Stephon Gilmore makes even more in danger of the cut knife. The physical skills are there but the bust clock is ticking.
  • Jabril Cox- drafted in the 4th round two years ago, Cox was seen as a steal. Two seasons later, Cox has been a disappointment. His pass coverage skills were supposed to be his strength but he has not shown enough to be reliable. DeMarvion Overshown is now the young LB with more raw talent than Cox. Like Joseph, he’s on a very short leash.
  • Neville Gallimore- unlike the previous two players mentioned, Gallimore he has earned some decent playing time. Going into a contract year, he’s been ok just not good enough to warrant a second contract. The drafting of Mazi Smith underscores that.
  • Jourdan Lewis- Lewis has been a very good player for several years. His foot injury last year ended a good season early for him But he’s more expensive and the development of Israel Mukamu has made him a bubble guy in my book.
  • Jalen Tolbert- early reports from OTAs has Tolbert being greatly improved. Last year was a complete disappointment for a guy drafted in the 3rd round. He cannot afford another bad TC.
Who else? Who’s on your list of guys in danger of a visit from the Turk this year?
I can't say I disagree that these are the players who have not lived up to the post draft hype. Joseph has been a major disappointment and while he is loaded with athletic ability it seems his intelligence is letting him down. That is something that cannot be fixed I don't think. Still I would love to see the lightbulb go on with him because I hate to see young kids waste their talent. If he continues to play solid on STs I think he stays, but I could see if they decide to cut ties with him and move on too.

I thought Cox showed some ability his rookie season. Then he injured his knee and fell off the map his second season. If he has anything, this will be the year we see it. I really hope he is the guy I thought I saw his rookie year. Knocking Danny Dimes out of a game has to count for something. With a couple of running QBs in the NFC East they can use a LB with lots of lateral speed. I am not buying all this hype about Overshown, Let him play a down first.

To me, Gallimore has been one of the biggest disappointments for Dallas. He was just awful last year. I thought sitting out 12 or 13 games with a hyperextended elbow was bad, but when he came back he just got shoved around by almost everyone. I think the Cowboys have shown less tolerance with DTs lately and if he does not show something I do think they get rid of him, like they did with Hill.

They are keeping Lewis. I think he is their 4th best CB. They don't need the CAP space so theri is not need to cut him to save money. Say what you want about Bland, but I need to see more than one season before I fall in love with the guy. Mukuamu did look good at times I don't think he is as good as Lewis.

I think they keep Tolbert too. It is only his second season and unless he does something bad for the team I think he gets a second chance.

I would add Bohanna to this list. With Mazi and Hankins I think Bohanna becomes expendable. It could be a battle between Gallimore and Bohanna to see who stays and who get cut. Overall, I am not sold on the Cowboys interior DL yet. Mazi would have to be something special. I would be great if Bohanna and Gallimore both step up.
 

quickccc

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Waters was drafted in the 3rd round out of Clemson, he played safety for Clemson. Waters started his career as a free safety With Dallas. He was moved to corner when someone went down, Landry felt that he could handle it. He did handle it, but he was much better as a safety. Great player…
That's not what I heard ... per Americas' Game documentary film, ..Waters himself admitted he was a mess of a failure at CB when he was whipped (and booed) repeatedly
because he did not have the quicks for the CB role.

I could never understand Landry's infatuation with moving safeties to CB... we may have even won a few more Super bowls and NFC title games
if we committed to true CBs instead of safeties.
 

Toro9

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I see Jourdan spending his entire career with the Cowboys. He's too good to cut and not good enough to trade, unless it's with a team that has no good corners, then we could maybe get a 5th. But if that's the case, just let him be a URFA and probably get a 5th or better as a comp pick
 

quickccc

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I can't say I disagree that these are the players who have not lived up to the post draft hype. Joseph has been a major disappointment and while he is loaded with athletic ability it seems his intelligence is letting him down. That is something that cannot be fixed I don't think. Still I would love to see the lightbulb go on with him because I hate to see young kids waste their talent. If he continues to play solid on STs I think he stays, but I could see if they decide to cut ties with him and move on too.

I thought Cox showed some ability his rookie season. Then he injured his knee and fell off the map his second season. If he has anything, this will be the year we see it. I really hope he is the guy I thought I saw his rookie year. Knocking Danny Dimes out of a game has to count for something. With a couple of running QBs in the NFC East they can use a LB with lots of lateral speed. I am not buying all this hype about Overshown, Let him play a down first.

To me, Gallimore has been one of the biggest disappointments for Dallas. He was just awful last year. I thought sitting out 12 or 13 games with a hyperextended elbow was bad, but when he came back he just got shoved around by almost everyone. I think the Cowboys have shown less tolerance with DTs lately and if he does not show something I do think they get rid of him, like they did with Hill.

They are keeping Lewis. I think he is their 4th best CB. They don't need the CAP space so theri is not need to cut him to save money. Say what you want about Bland, but I need to see more than one season before I fall in love with the guy. Mukuamu did look good at times I don't think he is as good as Lewis.

I think they keep Tolbert too. It is only his second season and unless he does something bad for the team I think he gets a second chance.

I would add Bohanna to this list. With Mazi and Hankins I think Bohanna becomes expendable. It could be a battle between Gallimore and Bohanna to see who stays and who get cut. Overall, I am not sold on the Cowboys interior DL yet. Mazi would have to be something special. I would be great if Bohanna and Gallimore both step up.
Prior to that ACL injury, Cox only played a mere 8 defensive snaps... they did not even seem to value Cox his rookie year

Trysten Hill was a malcontent, he was attitude walking ..reportedly even his teammates shun him just as he shun some of them,.. with that the coaches were ready to get rid of him
at mid season, and that was when they were hurting with injuries and thin at DT. The vibe I get is the team could not wait to get rid of him ..

Vs run . it wasn't just Gallimore ...Armstrong, Fowler LVE, Barr, ..they were not pulling their weight vs run either. - especially on that right side.
But Gallimore being inactivate gameday does not speak good volume, and its' mixed reports whether those " inactive " games were injured related.

But other than a rotation guy... what is Gallimore's role here ?
Osa and Fehoko are considered the 3 techs of present and future ..just as Hankins, Massi the 1 techs of the present and future .
 

rags747

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That's not what I heard ... per Americas' Game documentary film, ..Waters himself admitted he was a mess of a failure at CB when he was whipped (and booed) repeatedly
because he did not have the quicks for the CB role.

I could never understand Landry's infatuation with moving safeties to CB... we may have even won a few more Super bowls and NFC title games
if we committed to true CBs instead of safeties.
My main point was that he was drafted as a safety and played safety, whereas Bobhaze said that he started his career as a corner Which was incorrect. Waters only went to corner as there was basically no one else to man the position. Landry also thought that Waters Smarts would serve him well at corner. Was Waters great at corner, No but he gave it his all and actually had some good games there. Obviously he was a much better safety as that was his natural position.
 
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