Wade was on the Musers this morning

[adbutcher]

AB, you don't know how much I hope this is true. It has been excruciating to watch over the past few seasons. I mean, down right painful. I come onto the board, try to discuss exactly what you are outlining and it only gets worse. :laugh2:

I really hope this is all true.

Two names always come to mind about LBs that can't cover or lack the athleticism to do so Trotter and Kirkland. Yet I never recalled them getting exploited the way OCs were exploiting Bradie. Then I noticed that we hardly switched on defense. If Bradie is getting killed either put someone else in the game or at least let Akin cover him. Do anyone recall the down and distance of the play when Bradie was running after Stevenson like a dog chasing a corvette?

 

[Hostile]

Absolutely. And what is worse is the feeling of helplessness that even if you give your best as a player you will most like still fail. My coach use to call it being caught in a whipsaw, lol, basically you are dam if you do and dam if you don’t. Now ask yourself this, if you are a player and your coach puts you in a situation where you are getting your az handed to you, your teammates are driving you, the fans are driving you, the media is driving you; How much faith will you have in that coach?

When I looked around the league the Good Defense coordinators rarely put their personnel in bad spots on the field, now if the player whiffs on a tackle that is one thing.

For those who doubt this ask yourself this. How many times were we able to match Witten on Trotter for a TD? How many times Levon Kirkland was exposed in coverage when he played in Pittsburgh? How did SD manage to keep Edwards in coverage or running free to a gap and not exposed to lineman who would crush him in the run game?

To any one that have studied film knows that, down and distance, formations, hash marks, offensive line keys, and personnel packages will tell you a great percentage of the time what the play will be. Knowing this type of information how can you not create match ups that will favor you? Why all of the recent rule changes to the game was done to the benefit of the offense?

I know plenty here have their agendas against Bradie, Roy, Julius…etc. But the quickest way for a coach to loose a team is for the players to loose faith in his ability to put them in a position of success. If all of the film study, working out, and sacrificing your body, yields a vanilla scheme then it is easy to see how we faded in the stretch.

Okay, let me try and follow the thinking here. The reason then for keeping a LB in the middle on a Nickel situation is to spy on the RB for a handoff since a pass is more likely and a run will catch a defense off guard? Is that fair to say?

So if the ILB in the Nickel in fact plays the run first, then he is going to bite on a draw, and when he does the RB is going to go right past him into the open flat.

Whereas with a Safety there in the Nickel he is reading pass first, TE as first read, RB as 2nd read for a pass or a run, QB as 3rd read on a scramble, and only comes up in run support if the ball is actually handed off or the QB takes off?

Thus if there is a Safety instead of a LB the D-line is going to implement a bull rush and collapse the pocket moreso than a rip or swim where they want to push the contain to the outside.

Am I reading you right? Or have I missed the boat?

 

[adbutcher]

Okay, let me try and follow the thinking here. The reason then for keeping a LB in the middle on a Nickel situation is to spy on the RB for a handoff since a pass is more likely and a run will catch a defense off guard? Is that fair to say?

Yes that is why I wouldn’t advise using a LB especially if that LB is a downhill player. Edwards is one those exceptions because he is a diet pill away from being a safety anyway.

So if the ILB in the Nickel in fact plays the run first, then he is going to bite on a draw, and when he does the RB is going to go right past him into the open flat.

Bingo! You remember the whipsaw I think it was Dan Morgan (Panthers) was in, in the superbowl against New England. It worked in reverse; they showed draw action and he would come up only to have the pass completed between him and the safety. That is why if you can help it, you put a safety in that spot. Especially if your film study shows this is what they do in that situation.

Whereas with a Safety there in the Nickel he is reading pass first, TE as first read, RB as 2nd read for a pass or a run, QB as 3rd read on a scramble, and only comes up in run support if the ball is actually handed off or the QB takes off?

En fuego!

Thus if there is a Safety instead of a LB the D-line is going to implement a bull rush and collapse the pocket moreso than a rip or swim where they want to push the contain to the outside.

I am hoping in Wades scheme that the D-Line will play a half a man with the occasional game. But down and distance and hand pressure will dictate what technique they will execute. If it is third and medium and the O-Line is sitting light they will be more incline to bull rush. However, if they are sitting heavy they should play with good pad level and try to establish a new LOS 1 yard deep. If it is third and long then they pin their ears back and execute their best pass rush move.

Am I reading you right? Or have I missed the boat?

You are right on the money Captain Stubbing!

 

[Hostile]

Yes that is why I wouldn’t advise using a LB especially if that LB is a downhill player. Edwards is one those exceptions because he is a diet pill away from being a safety anyway.

Then is Urlacher or Lewis considered an exception or are they in truth sliding outside in a contain situation?

Bingo! You remember the whipsaw I think it was Dan Morgan (Panthers) was in, in the superbowl against New England. It worked in reverse; they showed draw action and he would come up only to have the pass completed between him and the safety. That is why if you can help it, you put a safety in that spot. Especially if your film study shows this is what they do in that situation.

Okay, is this where they were using Kevin Faulk so much that Carolina switched to a dime instead of a Nickel and New England countered by going back to run heavy with Dillon?

En fuego!

Hot damn.

I am hoping in Wades scheme that the D-Line will play a half a man with the occasional game. But down and distance and hand pressure will dictate what technique they will execute. If it is third and medium and the O-Line is sitting light they will be more incline to bull rush. However, if they are sitting heavy they should play with good pad level and try to establish a new LOS 1 yard deep. If it is third and long then they pin their ears back and execute their best pass rush move.

I agree with this and want to run stunts and blitzes more than in the past. I think they cannot know our tendency is to do one thing. I think on every down they have to be wondering which way we are coming from. That is why I think some one gap instead of 2 is going to free up an ILB or Roy up the middle.

I'm looking forward to it.

You are right on the money Captain Stubbing!

Damn. Now I got that song in my head.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Two names always come to mind about LBs that can't cover or lack the athleticism to do so Trotter and Kirkland. Yet I never recalled them getting exploited the way OCs were exploiting Bradie. Then I noticed that we hardly switched on defense. If Bradie is getting killed either put someone else in the game or at least let Akin cover him. Do anyone recall the down and distance of the play when Bradie was running after Stevenson like a dog chasing a corvette?

Actually, goes back even further then that AB. Remember Carolina when they had Green as there designated pass rusher? In 96, 98 and 99 (his 12th, 14th and 15th seasons in the NFL), Green had 14.5/15/12 sack seasons. Yet, Green was never exposed in that defense. He was never a great cover LB as it was but at that age, he couldn't cover me at my age now. In 96, Carolina stomped us in the playoffs and went on to lose to the eventual SuperBowl Champion Packers in the NFC Championship. We tried to take advantage of Green and failed misserably.

BTW, the down and distance you asked about was 1st and 10 from our own 37 yard line.

 

[adbutcher]

Then is Urlacher or Lewis considered an exception or are they in truth sliding outside in a contain situation?

I think Urlacher is an exception however not so much Lewis because Urlacher’s experience as a DB helps him greatly.

Okay, is this where they were using Kevin Faulk so much that Carolina switched to a dime instead of a Nickel and New England countered by going back to run heavy with Dillon?

Exactly, that was a beautiful chess game between some great football minds.

I agree with this and want to run stunts and blitzes more than in the past. I think they cannot know our tendency is to do one thing. I think on every down they have to be wondering which way we are coming from. That is why I think some one gap instead of 2 is going to free up an ILB or Roy up the middle.

That is one of the only advantages that the defense have…unpredictability. It was killing me how deliberate we have become. We lacked the ability to disguise anything we were doing or to even make strong and weak determinations. It was like the offense was teeing off on a bunch of stationary practice dummies.

I'm looking forward to it.

me too.

Damn. Now I got that song in my head.

Some one got me earlier today so naturally I had to pass it on.

 

[Hostile]

I think Urlacher is an exception however not so much Lewis because Urlacher’s experience as a DB helps him greatly.


Exactly, that was a beautiful chess game between some great football minds.



That is one of the only advantages that the defense have…unpredictability. It was killing me how deliberate we have become. We lacked the ability to disguise anything we were doing or to even make strong and weak determinations. It was like the offense was teeing off on a bunch of stationary practice dummies.


me too.


Some one got me earlier today so naturally I had to pass it on.

That's as good a way as I have heard it in a long time. Coach Chow used to say something similar. The only stationary blocks you will ever make are against the blocking sled. In every other situation you have to find your assignment or make him find you.

 

[adbutcher]

Actually, goes back even further then that AB. Remember Carolina when they had Green as there designated pass rusher? In 96, 98 and 99 (his 12th, 14th and 15th seasons in the NFL), Green had 14.5/15/12 sack seasons. Yet, Green was never exposed in that defense. He was never a great cover LB as it was but at that age, he couldn't cover me at my age now. In 96, Carolina stomped us in the playoffs and went on to lose to the eventual SuperBowl Champion Packers in the NFC Championship. We tried to take advantage of Green and failed misserably.

BTW, the down and distance you asked about was 1st and 10 from our own 37 yard line.

Very true....1st and 10, ouch! Bradie will definitely have to play better. I will never absolve him of bad play but to lie the dismantling of the D soley at his feet is completely unfair. Also I could not understand our propensity to not mix things up like we did in the Indie game. I just knew that game was a dawn of a new day for our D, until we went back to business as usual. I am just hoping that Wade will have us playing more like the Indie and not the NO game.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Very true....1st and 10, ouch! Bradie will definitely have to play better. I will never absolve him of bad play but to lie the dismantling of the D soley at his feet is completely unfair. Also I could not understand our propensity to not mix things up like we did in the Indie game. I just knew that game was a dawn of a new day for our D, until we went back to business as usual. I am just hoping that Wade will have us playing more like the Indie and not the NO game.

I agree. It was horrible to watch teams isolate on Bradie and Roy on a weekly basis. I just never understood why we didn't get away from the Cover2 and go more man or cover3. It was horrible to watch. Every team did the same thing to us and we just never made the adjustment. Next week, second half, whatever the case, we would come out in the same allignment and do the same thing. I must admit that I did not get that at all. Still don't to be honest.

 

[adbutcher]

That's as good a way as I have heard it in a long time. Coach Chow used to say something similar. The only stationary blocks you will ever make are against the blocking sled. In every other situation you have to find your assignment or make him find you.

Normally that is true but with the lack of movement and adjustments by our fronts made it easier then shooting ducks in a barrel.

I can remember lining up on the inside shoulder of the play side guard in one of our packages, he was yelling he is in a 1! Then just before the center snapped the ball I adjusted to the outside shoulder and he while he attempted to yell he is in a 3 the center snapped the ball and the backside trapping guard took a poor angle and I end up making the play in the backfield.

That is what p*ssed me off the most about our D, the lack of movement, being reactive instead proactive. Further, I wasn't moving arbitrarily, this was something that we practice during the week during our normal game preparation. Through film study, scouting report study, and practicing how we were going to dictate. The funny thing is our LB(s) were calling out their plays while the QB was going through his cadence, we knew more of their offensive tendencies then half their own team, lol. You knew how shook they were when we got a couple of right calls and blew whatever up that they were trying to run. That is what defense is all about!

If we were able to do this on a 1AA level for the life of me I couldn’t understand why in the heck an NFL team wouldn’t adjust.

 

[adbutcher]

I agree. It was horrible to watch teams isolate on Bradie and Roy on a weekly basis. I just never understood why we didn't get away from the Cover2 and go more man or cover3. It was horrible to watch. Every team did the same thing to us and we just never made the adjustment. Next week, second half, whatever the case, we would come out in the same allignment and do the same thing. I must admit that I did not get that at all. Still don't to be honest.

Our coach always promised us to put us in a position were the odds were in our favor but it was our responsibility not to Kur out, lol. The Tuna in co love to ram head first into that brink wall, thinking one more blow and it is going down, lol.

 

[Doomsday]

Your theory is exactly correct. By not having a S play up, or to where he can drop back into coverage of the flat you are basically putting the rest of the DBs in man to man and dropping a LB into pass coverage of the flat.

Why would you need to cover the flat the only one who goes out there is a FB?

 

[adbutcher]

Why would you need to cover the flat the only one who goes out there is a FB?

:laugh2:

 

[CrazyCowboy]

That theory makes a lot of sense to me.....

 

[Chocolate Lab]

http://cumuluspodcasting.com/media/KTCK/KTCK109/KTCK_51507_1-Muse-Wade.mp3