Walk-Around vs Coordinator Type Head Coach

[xwalker]

Wade had problems.

That 2010 meltdown was all him.

I went to training camp that Summer and all everyone could talk about was going to the Super Bowl.

He was a good DC though.

With HC in Waiting Garrett already hired, *everyone* knew that Wade's position was temporary. He was hamstrung from day one.

Anybody that's been to training camp with Wade as HC and then with Garrett as HC probably observed what I observed.

I observed a terrible lack of discipline and unorganized practices with Wade.

With Garrett it was much better (except for Dez).

Wade is a great D-Coordinator but he has to have an HC that sets the tone for discipline.

Nothing including the Parcells camps were like it was with Jimmy but Wade's camps were the opposite extreme from Jimmy's. Even the Dave Campo camps and Switzer camps had better structure and discipline than the Wade training camps.

 

[quickccc]

i don't see a HC delegating duties down to OC or DC is not a downside at all.
in fact i thought we got in trouble with Jerry imposing the HC/coordinator dual roles on our HC's with both Wade and Jason, reportedly because it got that
notion from one of his NFL buddles ( Al davis or Joe Gibbs)
somehow and finally jerry finally got it that he owns it to his HC to allow him to overseer and manage the team in the best way he best understands how.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Anybody that's been to training camp with Wade as HC and then with Garrett as HC probably observed what I observed.

I observed a terrible lack of discipline and unorganized practices with Wade.

With Garrett it was much better (except for Dez).

Wade is a great D-Coordinator but he has to have an HC that sets the tone for discipline.

Nothing including the Parcells camps were like it was with Jimmy but Wade's camps were the opposite extreme from Jimmy's. Even the Dave Campo camps and Switzer camps had better structure and discipline than the Wade training camps.

Camp Cupcake
At the time some players said they liked it better than a Parcells camp, and team performance was great in 2007, but lack of discipline catches up with a team.

To be fair to old Wade, how are you supposed to enforce discipline when you're lame duck walking?

 

[xwalker]

To be fair to old Wade, how are you supposed to enforce discipline when you're lame duck walking?

That would be a fair question if that was the reason Wade didn't have team discipline but it wasn't the reason. Wade just isn't good at it and doesn't want to be a disciplinarian.

I'm not certain he was as "lame duck" as it might seem. Jerry really didn't want to fire him but it was the defensive players that just quit on him. Garrett being on staff already wasn't the reason Wade was fired, IMO. If Jerry just wanted to promote Garrett then Jerry would have just let Wade's contract expire. He didn't need to fire him mid-season to promote Garrett.

 

[Doomsday101]

To be fair, JasonG's coaching record isn't that bad.

77-59 Good
2-3 Playoffs Bad

With say an 11-5 record this season that would put him at 88-64 add a SB title would put him 5-3 post season and things would look much different.
If he and this team fail this year then likely will lose his job but I think he has the team that can make it the distance

 

[GMO415]

There's definitely a coincidence between Sean Payton's contract ending and JG' not getting extended. Jerry tried to get Payton in the past, and Jerry is usually never told "No" twice.

 

[eromeopolk]

Tom Landry did both (walk around and coordinator). Jimmy Johnson walked around. Barry Switzer walked around with Jimmy Johnson's team.

Jason Garrett technically has done neither well. When he took over as interim he walked around and was successful to get the HC job. He actually was not the coordinator his first year as OC as Sparano ran the offense from the booth. Garrett by himself as Coordinator got Winnie the Pooh/Son of a Bum fired. Then he almost got himself fired.

And that is the problem with Garrett is he is really a position coach with no innovative coordinator experience. He is not Sean McVay, Tom Landry, Sean Payton, etc. He knows Jerry Jones and his father knew Jerry Jones and Jerry Jones is comfortable with Jason letting Jerry Jones be GM and HC of the Dallas Cowboys. Jason Garrett is comfortable with letting Jerry run the team.

 

[Future]

Why is that a downside? It’s a function of how good your coordinators are.

It's not a downside from week to week, but long-term, you'll lose those coordinators when they become HCs elsewhere.

 

[Verdict]

"Walk Around" Head Coach vs Offensive or Defensive Guru as Head Coach

Walk Around HC (non-coordinator HC)
There are some possible advantages to having a Head Coach that is the manager with both the Offensive and Defensive Coordinators being somewhat independent of the Head Coach.
1. HC focused on big picture.
2. Can maintain consistent team structure/process when Coordinators are fired.

Note: Belichick is still the football guru even if other coaches hold OC and DC titles.

Head Coach as Offensive or Defensive Coordinator
The big disadvantage is that the most in-demand Offensive or Defensive Gurus get hired as Head Coaches. A Sean McVay type Offensive Guru had to be hired as the Head Coach, not as an Offensive Coordinator.

Even if an Offensive Guru was available as an Offensive Coordinator, those types would not want to work for a Head Coach that was previously the team's Offensive Coordinator. It would be better for the Offensive Guru to work for a Defensive minded Head Coach.

Similar to the limitations of hiring top Gurus as Coordinators instead of as Head Coaches, keeping top Coordinators is also more limited when Neither Coordinator can be promoted to Head Coach.

Obviously long term, only 1 of 2 Coordinators can be promoted to Head Coach, but keeping 1 of 2 is better than keeping zero.


Cowboys Specifically

The Scenario where the Cowboys exit the playoffs without reaching the Super Bowl presents difficult questions in regards to Head Coach.

Hiring a new Head Coach works better when a team tanks by mid-season and management knows they'll hire a new HC. GMs with a team in the playoffs or playoff contention to the end of the season generally won't contact potential replacements until their season is completely finished.

What if Garrett Not Retained
Kellen Moore: Not likely hired as HC by Cowboys in 2020 regardless of success in 2019.

Kris Richard: He is not even the DC in 2019. Would they hire him as HC?

Outside Hire: Unless the Cowboys tank by about game 12, they'll get a late start hiring a new HC.


What if Garrett gets New Contract
The contract would likely expire after 2022 (3 year deal).

Both Moore/Richard can likely be retaining in 2020 (Richard as DC).

Both Moore/Richard could be hired by other teams as HCs before 2022.

I may be in the minority but I don’t think Garrett is on the hot seat. If he is fired as head coach he would more likely be moved over to an internal management position (right under/equal to Will McClay).

I think the Cowboys already have a gentleman’s agreement with Garrett, and unless the team just implodes he will be brought back as HC. He is probably playing for how much he is going to get paid vs whether he exits the Cowboys organization.

He is like family to them. It would almost be like firing Stephen Jones. Probably not happening.

 

[xwalker]

I may be in the minority but I don’t think Garrett is on the hot seat. If he is fired as head coach he would more likely be moved over to an internal management position (right under/equal to Will McClay).

I think the Cowboys already have a gentleman’s agreement with Garrett, and unless the team just implodes he will be brought back as HC. He is probably playing for how much he is going to get paid vs whether he exits the Cowboys organization.

He is like family to them. It would almost be like firing Stephen Jones. Probably not happening.

I think there is some tension between SJones and Garrett.

The redheaded step child always loses to the biological children...

 

[Fire407]

I may be in the minority but I don’t think Garrett is on the hot seat. If he is fired as head coach he would more likely be moved over to an internal management position (right under/equal to Will McClay).

I think the Cowboys already have a gentleman’s agreement with Garrett, and unless the team just implodes he will be brought back as HC. He is probably playing for how much he is going to get paid vs whether he exits the Cowboys organization.

He is like family to them. It would almost be like firing Stephen Jones. Probably not happening.

Of course they are going to offer him a position in the FO. Jerry isn't about to take the chance that he is wrong about Jason getting offers from other teams. He will help Jason save face and they can still claim that 11 other teams were interested in him.

 

[Verdict]

I think there is some tension between SJones and Garrett.

The redheaded step child always loses to the biological children...

What makes you draw that conclusion? They vacation together, etc. I’m just curious what you are basing that on.

 

[TwoDeep3]

"Walk Around" Head Coach vs Offensive or Defensive Guru as Head Coach

Walk Around HC (non-coordinator HC)
There are some possible advantages to having a Head Coach that is the manager with both the Offensive and Defensive Coordinators being somewhat independent of the Head Coach.
1. HC focused on big picture.
2. Can maintain consistent team structure/process when Coordinators are fired.

Note: Belichick is still the football guru even if other coaches hold OC and DC titles.

Head Coach as Offensive or Defensive Coordinator
The big disadvantage is that the most in-demand Offensive or Defensive Gurus get hired as Head Coaches. A Sean McVay type Offensive Guru had to be hired as the Head Coach, not as an Offensive Coordinator.

Even if an Offensive Guru was available as an Offensive Coordinator, those types would not want to work for a Head Coach that was previously the team's Offensive Coordinator. It would be better for the Offensive Guru to work for a Defensive minded Head Coach.

Similar to the limitations of hiring top Gurus as Coordinators instead of as Head Coaches, keeping top Coordinators is also more limited when Neither Coordinator can be promoted to Head Coach.

Obviously long term, only 1 of 2 Coordinators can be promoted to Head Coach, but keeping 1 of 2 is better than keeping zero.


Cowboys Specifically

The Scenario where the Cowboys exit the playoffs without reaching the Super Bowl presents difficult questions in regards to Head Coach.

Hiring a new Head Coach works better when a team tanks by mid-season and management knows they'll hire a new HC. GMs with a team in the playoffs or playoff contention to the end of the season generally won't contact potential replacements until their season is completely finished.

What if Garrett Not Retained
Kellen Moore: Not likely hired as HC by Cowboys in 2020 regardless of success in 2019.

Kris Richard: He is not even the DC in 2019. Would they hire him as HC?

Outside Hire: Unless the Cowboys tank by about game 12, they'll get a late start hiring a new HC.


What if Garrett gets New Contract
The contract would likely expire after 2022 (3 year deal).

Both Moore/Richard can likely be retaining in 2020 (Richard as DC).

Both Moore/Richard could be hired by other teams as HCs before 2022.

Afraid I did not see the category of the Over Clapper Head Coach.

I'm certain you are working up a detailed addendum on this questionably effective head coach. I look forward to your scintillating expose, XWalker.

 

[xwalker]

Afraid I did not see the category of the Over Clapper Head Coach.

I'm certain you are working up a detailed addendum on this questionably effective head coach. I look forward to your scintillating expose, XWalker.

Yes, a couple of weeks ago I posted a few job titles for Garrett if he was "promoted" to the Front Office.

Somebody reminded me that I omitted multiple options with Clapper in the title.

 

[xwalker]

What makes you draw that conclusion? They vacation together, etc. I’m just curious what you are basing that on.

Do they?

Garrett specifically vacations with Stephen
Jones?

SJones directly said in a radio interview that the goal is the Super Bowl and Garrett had not reached the goal; therefore Garrett has failed up to this point.

Prior to the 2018 season Linehan wanted more control. SJ said we either need to give Linehan full control or get someone else. SJ then gave Linehan full control over the offense in a sink or swim type of move. That was the control Garrett had refused to give Linehan. Linehan wanted to cut Dez and it happened. Linehan wanted Tavon Austin. Linehan and Witten were at odds over Witten playing 100% of the offensive snaps. Witten quit.

The interviews of Linehan. SJ, Jerry and Garrett after the Dez cut made it quite obvious who was happy about it and who was not happy. Jerry/Garrett somber. SJ/Linehan smiling and laughing.

I don't know Garrett's reaction but there is not much chance that he liked it being Linehan being given more control.

We already know that Bill Callahan departed a couple of years as OL coach for the same job with the Skins because of conflict with Garrett. The Joneses mandated that Callahan call plays in 2013 and Garrett refused to even acknowledge it publically. It had to be either Jerry of SJ that forced that issue. It doesn't seem like something Jerry would come up with on his own.

Side Note: Jerry clearly said that they tried to get Callahan to stay. They denied his request to leave for a lateral job move after 2013. Callahan had to wait until his contract expired after 2014.

 

[Angus12]

I look forward to the day he's a walk away coach.

 

[Verdict]

Do they?

Garrett specifically vacations with Stephen
Jones?

SJones directly said in a radio interview that the goal is the Super Bowl and Garrett had not reached the goal; therefore Garrett has failed up to this point.

Prior to the 2018 season Linehan wanted more control. SJ said we either need to give Linehan full control or get someone else. SJ then gave Linehan full control over the offense in a sink or swim type of move. That was the control Garrett had refused to give Linehan. Linehan wanted to cut Dez and it happened. Linehan wanted Tavon Austin. Linehan and Witten were at odds over Witten playing 100% of the offensive snaps. Witten quit.

The interviews of Linehan. SJ, Jerry and Garrett after the Dez cut made it quite obvious who was happy about it and who was not happy. Jerry/Garrett somber. SJ/Linehan smiling and laughing.

I don't know Garrett's reaction but there is not much chance that he liked it being Linehan being given more control.

We already know that Bill Callahan departed a couple of years as OL coach for the same job with the Skins because of conflict with Garrett. The Joneses mandated that Callahan call plays in 2013 and Garrett refused to even acknowledge it publically. It had to be either Jerry of SJ that forced that issue. It doesn't seem like something Jerry would come up with on his own.

Side Note: Jerry clearly said that they tried to get Callahan to stay. They denied his request to leave for a lateral job move after 2013. Callahan had to wait until his contract expired after 2014.

You may be right. I don’t really know.

I’m not with them on vacation, but I have seen it reported that Garrett and the Jones family are extremely close and Stephen and Garrett essentially grew up together and that specifically that they travel together and vacation together.

I’m not sure why someone would say that if it’s not true. I’m just going on what i see, and what I have heard.

I might be all wrong about this. I’m just giving my take on it. I don’t think it is written in stone I’m just saying I think part of this is posturing, and feeding the fan’s belief in accountability. Who knows?

 

[DandyDon52]

Garrett would be a much better HC if he just walked around the stadium on game day and left game day management to *anyone* else.

So then he would be a "walkabout" HC lol

 

[DandyDon52]

Wade had problems.

That 2010 meltdown was all him.

Wade had problems...... yeah he did , the big one was named jason garrett who was oc/asst hc!!
The GB game where it looked like the defense gave up, well the dallas offense under JG couldnt score ! So maybe they did give up.
Also Romo was out so players knew it was over.
The year before in Minn playoff game, Dallas could not score a td! with JG running the offense and game planning.
They only scored 3 points!
Wade was not allowed to pick his own staff and his own oc , so he wasnt really HC, he was a glorified DC.

 

[atlantacowboy]

"Walk around head coach" is term oft used by Jerry Jones to denigrate the coaching profession and elevate what he does. It was specifically a reference to Jimmy Johnson.

Garret doesn't even merit the designation. He has no power to hirer or fire coaches. He has very little autonomy. Completely different from Jimmy.