CFZ Was McGovern an All-Pro Talent?

[xwalker]

I keep seeing claims that the OLine got worse and there is a huge "hole" at LG.

The only loss was McGovern. If the OLine got radically worse as claimed by CZ, then McGovern must have been a borderline All-Pro.

Note: In some games they alternated McGovern and 40 year old Jason Peters...

In 2021 McGovern started 4 games in place of Connor Williams.
- He was terrible.
- After his 4 starts, they switched back to Conner Penalty Williams.

In 2022 McGovern was somewhere between "good enough" and borderline All-Pro depending on who you ask.

Tyler, Steele and Tyron will all start if healthy.
- That means one of them (probably Tyler) starts at LG.
- Obviously Tyron will eventually miss a game or more with injury issues.

The top options at LG with Tyron out:
- Tyler at LT and Edoga or Farniok at LG.
or
- Waletzko at OG with Tyler at LG.


Farniok: I recently re-reviewed him vs the Bengals (He started 2 games with McGovern out).
- He was "good enough".
- He had many good snaps vs 345 pound DT Josh Tupou.
- He has some good and some bad snaps vs top tier DT DJ Reader.
- Summary: He was generally good physically but made some mistakes while playing next to rookie LT Tyler Smith early in the season.

Edoga:
- Played most (maybe all) games for the Jets at OT. Was a good run blocker but sometimes had issue with Pass blocking.
- Started 1 game last season for the Falcons at LG.
- I reviewed all of his snaps in that game. In my opinion he looked as good or better than McGovern.
- It was only 1 game (Bears). I don't know if the Bears DT are good or bad per se.
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-lg-chuma-edoga.510746/page-2#post-12758195

Waletzko:
- My 1st thought when I reviewed his college game footage was "He's a Tyler Smith mini-me".
- Not his physical build, but his play style and on-field demeanor.
- It is not surprising that the same people that drafted Tyler would draft Waletzko.
- He is a freakish athlete. His 9.96 RAS was 6th of 1218 OTs from 1987 to 2022.
- He was already within an NFL weight range when drafted (315).

Free Agent option:
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-og-dalton-risner.510850/page-2#post-12758191

 

[Ken]

I keep seeing claims that the OLine got worse and there is a huge "hole" at LG.

The only loss was McGovern. If the OLine got radically worse as claimed by CZ, then McGovern must have been a borderline All-Pro.

Note: In some games they alternated McGovern and 40 year old Jason Peters...

In 2021 McGovern started 4 games in place of Connor Williams.
- He was terrible.
- After his 4 starts, they switched back to Conner Penalty Williams.

In 2022 McGovern was somewhere between "good enough" and borderline All-Pro depending on who you ask.

Tyler, Steele and Tyron will all start if healthy.
- That means one of them (probably Tyler) starts at LG.
- Obviously Tyron will eventually miss a game or more with injury issues.

The top options at LG with Tyron out:
- Tyler at LT and Edoga or Farniok at LG.
or
- Waletzko at OG with Tyler at LG.


Farniok: I recently re-reviewed him vs the Bengals (He started 2 games with McGovern out).
- He was "good enough".
- He had many good snaps vs 345 pound DT Josh Tupou.
- He has some good and some bad snaps vs top tier DT DJ Reader.
- Summary: He was generally good physically but made some mistakes while playing next to rookie LT Tyler Smith early in the season.

Edoga:
- Played most (maybe all) games for the Jets at OT. Was a good run blocker but sometimes had issue with Pass blocking.
- Started 1 game last season for the Falcons at LG.
- I reviewed all of his snaps in that game. In my opinion he looked as good or better than McGovern.
- It was only 1 game (Bears). I don't know if the Bears DT are good or bad per se.
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-lg-chuma-edoga.510746/page-2#post-12758195

Waletzko:
- My 1st thought when I reviewed his college game footage was "He's a Tyler Smith mini-me".
- Not his physical build, but his play style and on-field demeanor.
- It is not surprising that the same people that drafted Tyler would draft Waletzko.
- He is a freakish athlete. His 9.96 RAS was 6th of 1218 OTs from 1987 to 2022.
- He was already within an NFL weight range when drafted (315).

Free Agent option:
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-og-dalton-risner.510850/page-2#post-12758191

The line will be Tyron at LT and Tyler at LG unless Edoga or someone shows they are outstanding at LG and then Tyron will be Swing...

 

[817Gill]

Yeah I see some people that complain about our 3rd line of depth at some spots.

News flash, little to no team is 3 deep at an OL position. There just aren’t that many guys that size in the world that can do this.

If your backups are getting hurt at any position let alone OL, good luck.

 

[doomsday9084]

Pollard yards per attempt 5.2 - 3rd among running backs
Dak sack% - 4.8 - 5th lowest in the NFL among qualified QB's
Rush sack% - 4.1 - Not qualified to be ranked but even lower
Dak pocket time - 2.5s - 11th most in the NFL
Dak pressure% - 20% - 19th most in NFL

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/passing_advanced.htm
All from pro-football-reference.

The Cowboys offensive line was not the all world juggernaut it was in 2016. That said, it was still above average. A lot of the complaints about it come from either Zeke fans or Dak fans looking to deflect blame.

McGovern was the weak link there anyways. He used to be the Farniok to be used in emergencies but normally buried in the rotation. I have great difficulty believing that his loss is going to be a massive issue.

Would I love to go back to the 2010's juggernaut phase? Sure. Its no longer a strong spot for the team but its not nearly the disaster that the DT rotation was last year prior to Hankins or the WR group all year.

 

[Jake0]

Is Waletzko actually seen as a guard? He has a tackle build. 6'8 w/ 36 1/8" arms guy gonna play inside?

 

[xwalker]

Is Waletzko actually seen as a guard? He has a tackle build. 6'8 w/ 36 1/8" arms guy gonna play inside?

Typo: OG should have been OT. Obviously Waletzko a\and Tyler would both play LG...

- Waletzko at OG OT with Tyler at LG.

 

[Jarntt]

McGovern was not good at all IMO. I don't really get the idea we got worse or at least significantly worse. However,,,LG was a problem last year and thus is still a problem this year (even if we go our best 5 Tyron will go down and someone else will be needed). I have no concerns about us being as good as we were with McGovern, but I want to be MUCH better.

Edit - I'm not saying he'd be a great starter or anything or that I even want him to be the starter, but if it comes to it due to injury or whatever, I don't think there will be a big drop off from McGovern's play to Edoga's. So I see the floor as somewhat comparable to McGovern but stressing again I'm not happy with status quo there. Maybe one of the rookies steps up and I also expect we still sign another FA OL unless one or more of the kids surprises

 

[CowboyFrog]

Yeah I see some people that complain about our 3rd line of depth at some spots.

News flash, little to no team is 3 deep at an OL position. There just aren’t that many guys that size in the world that can do this.

If your backups are getting hurt at any position let alone OL, good luck.

This 100% I'm still looking for the teams that have 2 to 3 all pro's with 2 to 3 all pro's as backups.

 

[TequilaCowboy]

No, don't think McGovern was anything close to being All Pro....he could certainly be replaced by a speed bump and you would have the same results. Ok i admit, a little exaggeration. But LG certainly needs to get better play and be an upgrade, not just remain "as good as". The reason is because Biadasz is not an All Pro type either, just fair. The OL is a work in progress still and it would be awesome if one of the young guns steps up and shines.....Bostic, Bass, Waletzko, etc. I fear Edoga will only give us McGovern level talent.

 

[charron]

Replacing McGovern is easy. It will be interesting to see if they did upgrade the coaching and blocking scheme.

 

[conner01]

McG was an avg guard. Not near pro bowl let alone all pro. He was good enough a team other than us wanted him at a position that’s fairly easy to draft. So he’s far from a speed bump but just as far from all pro
That’s what avg is, goid enough to start in the nfl but not a star

 

[kiheikiwi]

To answer the question - No, he was not All-pro. He was average to a bit above (as per another club choosing to sign him).
However, as I see it, the problem is not do we have replacements on the team, that will.be similar or more even same/slightly better ? Unknown at this time, but hopeful.
The problem is MM's talk all off-season and justification of letting KM go. More situational awareness of running/protecting Dak better, to allow him to step up in the pocket. Yada yada yada.
My fear/and hope was that if they addressed LG in particular -
1) would add to, and make a truely dominant line.
2) Would avoid the Tyler Smith back to LG yoyo. A la what they did with the DE/DT from Boise - Crawford ?
Is it the end of the world for the Oline ? No.
But is it ideal - the answer is also - No.

Looks like we grabbed a great looking LT late on Day one last year. Let's not screw his development up. That's the crux of the debate, and odds are he is probably gonna play inside again this year - till Tyron gets hurt.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I keep seeing claims that the OLine got worse and there is a huge "hole" at LG.

The only loss was McGovern. If the OLine got radically worse as claimed by CZ, then McGovern must have been a borderline All-Pro.

Note: In some games they alternated McGovern and 40 year old Jason Peters...

In 2021 McGovern started 4 games in place of Connor Williams.
- He was terrible.
- After his 4 starts, they switched back to Conner Penalty Williams.

In 2022 McGovern was somewhere between "good enough" and borderline All-Pro depending on who you ask.

Tyler, Steele and Tyron will all start if healthy.
- That means one of them (probably Tyler) starts at LG.
- Obviously Tyron will eventually miss a game or more with injury issues.

The top options at LG with Tyron out:
- Tyler at LT and Edoga or Farniok at LG.
or
- Waletzko at OG with Tyler at LG.


Farniok: I recently re-reviewed him vs the Bengals (He started 2 games with McGovern out).
- He was "good enough".
- He had many good snaps vs 345 pound DT Josh Tupou.
- He has some good and some bad snaps vs top tier DT DJ Reader.
- Summary: He was generally good physically but made some mistakes while playing next to rookie LT Tyler Smith early in the season.

Edoga:
- Played most (maybe all) games for the Jets at OT. Was a good run blocker but sometimes had issue with Pass blocking.
- Started 1 game last season for the Falcons at LG.
- I reviewed all of his snaps in that game. In my opinion he looked as good or better than McGovern.
- It was only 1 game (Bears). I don't know if the Bears DT are good or bad per se.
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-lg-chuma-edoga.510746/page-2#post-12758195

Waletzko:
- My 1st thought when I reviewed his college game footage was "He's a Tyler Smith mini-me".
- Not his physical build, but his play style and on-field demeanor.
- It is not surprising that the same people that drafted Tyler would draft Waletzko.
- He is a freakish athlete. His 9.96 RAS was 6th of 1218 OTs from 1987 to 2022.
- He was already within an NFL weight range when drafted (315).

Free Agent option:
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-og-dalton-risner.510850/page-2#post-12758191

There was a hole at guard when Mcgovern was here. But this Chuma guy is even worse than McGovern. So yah, theres a big hole at guard. The line is worse.

And when Tyron goes down, if its early, we might be looking at Chuma and Walenzko starting. That will be a disaster.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Pollard yards per attempt 5.2 - 3rd among running backs
Dak sack% - 4.8 - 5th lowest in the NFL among qualified QB's
Rush sack% - 4.1 - Not qualified to be ranked but even lower
Dak pocket time - 2.5s - 11th most in the NFL
Dak pressure% - 20% - 19th most in NFL

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/passing_advanced.htm
All from pro-football-reference.

The Cowboys offensive line was not the all world juggernaut it was in 2016. That said, it was still above average. A lot of the complaints about it come from either Zeke fans or Dak fans looking to deflect blame.

McGovern was the weak link there anyways. He used to be the Farniok to be used in emergencies but normally buried in the rotation. I have great difficulty believing that his loss is going to be a massive issue.

Would I love to go back to the 2010's juggernaut phase? Sure. Its no longer a strong spot for the team but its not nearly the disaster that the DT rotation was last year prior to Hankins or the WR group all year.

Oline win pass protection win rate 28th in the NFL. How did that run game look against the niners D.

Look, its not about having an Oline that can play well against bad teams or average teams. Cowboys are past that. NOW we need a team that can win the SB. Thats the NEXT step. We need a great OLINE that can beat up and win against the best defenses in the NFL. Like what the philly line did to the Niners D.
NO way can our Oline do that. Couldnt do it last year we are worse this year.

Thats the reality. You can hope or say "were fine" all want. Turn a blind eye. THIS oline is NOT good enough to win a championship. Unless our D is going to hold teams to 15 points per game. Then maybe.

 

[CowboyFrog]

There was a hole at guard when Mcgovern was here. But this Chuma guy is even worse than McGovern. So yah, theres a big hole at guard. The line is worse.

And when Tyron goes down, if its early, we might be looking at Chuma and Walenzko starting. That will be a disaster.

Maybe, I'll say it again, under JG if a player was not good before he got here he didnt ever grow... this current coachign staff has grown players, it does happen all over the NFL players get better as they gain experience.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Replacing McGovern is easy. It will be interesting to see if they did upgrade the coaching and blocking scheme.

We didnt need to replace McGovern. WE needed to replace him with a stud. We replaced him with someone worse.

 

[RonWashington]

Want to see Farniok battle for a starting spot opposite Martin . Keep 73 at LT and ease 77 back into full time duty as RT as the career winds down .

 

[CowboyFrog]

Want to see Farniok battle for a starting spot opposite Martin . Keep 73 at LT and ease 77 back into full time duty as RT as the career winds down .

In Steeles defense he was a run blocking power house when he was playing last year...that is what they want in the RT.

 

[RonWashington]

I guess Farniok serves as back up C in case of injury . Valuable asset .

 

[RonWashington]

In Steeles defense he was a run blocking power house when he was playing last year...that is what they want in the RT.

Coming off injury I doubt Steele is opening day ( night ) tackle .