CFZ Was McGovern an All-Pro Talent?

[xwalker]

The problem isn't that we lost McGovern. The problem is that we haven't strengthen that position or upgraded it. I think we basically downgraded. I'm with some here thinking we should have gotten oline in the 2nd round.

I thought they might have stayed with Farniok in 2022 if he didn't get injured in his 2nd start...

 

[jrumann59]

I think the Dallas line can be better if the OC or the LG is upgraded. I think having 2 guys that are slightly above average starters (Biadsz/McGovern) their combined weaknesses sort of put a hole in the middle of the line. When you had a guy like Fredbeard you could put almost anyone between him and T. Smith

 

[StarOfGlory]

This 100% I'm still looking for the teams that have 2 to 3 all pro's with 2 to 3 all pro's as backups.

I believe the only teams over the past 15 years that have had multiple 1st team all-pros on the O-line are us (2016, Fredbeard, Tyron, Zack) and Philly (2017, 2022, Kelce and Johnson).

 

[thunderpimp91]

To be honest i was more concerned last year (until the draft) about LG trying to replace Connor Williams than I am about replacing McGovern. I don't have an in depth breakdown of McGovern, but overall he seemed to be a positive asset in pass protection and a liability in the run game. Not sure if that is more due to the scheme or his true ability. Just in general though guys who can do one well and not the other can be found pretty easily. I don't view this as a huge loss.

This post may not age well, but I think the Cowboys Oline is in pretty good shape right now. The starting 5 when healthy is one of the better lines in football. The question is how long can they stay healthy and what happens when the first man goes down? Personally, I think they have enough depth in the realm of decent players that they can get by without much issue. The issue with this team becomes what happens if you lose 2-3 guys at one time along the oline, but I'm not sure there are many teams in the entire league ready for that problem.

 

[Cowboys22]

McGovern was the epitome of the player you are looking to upgrade instead of signing to a new deal. They already had 3-4 options to try at LG and came away from draft weekend with 3 more college OTs they could try as well. Now that I know they want to have a power running offense with OGs pulling, I’m glad they didn’t waste the 2nd rounder on a OG that can’t do it. They have way too many options for the spot to waste such high draft capital on a bad fit and that is basically what McClay said during the draft. That’s also why I don’t take anyone who just looks at someone’s best available list and says they reached seriously. Clueless about what the team is actually looking for.

 

[Stash]

I keep seeing claims that the OLine got worse and there is a huge "hole" at LG.

The only loss was McGovern. If the OLine got radically worse as claimed by CZ, then McGovern must have been a borderline All-Pro.

Note: In some games they alternated McGovern and 40 year old Jason Peters...

In 2021 McGovern started 4 games in place of Connor Williams.
- He was terrible.
- After his 4 starts, they switched back to Conner Penalty Williams.

In 2022 McGovern was somewhere between "good enough" and borderline All-Pro depending on who you ask.

Tyler, Steele and Tyron will all start if healthy.
- That means one of them (probably Tyler) starts at LG.
- Obviously Tyron will eventually miss a game or more with injury issues.

The top options at LG with Tyron out:
- Tyler at LT and Edoga or Farniok at LG.
or
- Waletzko at OG with Tyler at LG.


Farniok: I recently re-reviewed him vs the Bengals (He started 2 games with McGovern out).
- He was "good enough".
- He had many good snaps vs 345 pound DT Josh Tupou.
- He has some good and some bad snaps vs top tier DT DJ Reader.
- Summary: He was generally good physically but made some mistakes while playing next to rookie LT Tyler Smith early in the season.

Edoga:
- Played most (maybe all) games for the Jets at OT. Was a good run blocker but sometimes had issue with Pass blocking.
- Started 1 game last season for the Falcons at LG.
- I reviewed all of his snaps in that game. In my opinion he looked as good or better than McGovern.
- It was only 1 game (Bears). I don't know if the Bears DT are good or bad per se.
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-lg-chuma-edoga.510746/page-2#post-12758195

Waletzko:
- My 1st thought when I reviewed his college game footage was "He's a Tyler Smith mini-me".
- Not his physical build, but his play style and on-field demeanor.
- It is not surprising that the same people that drafted Tyler would draft Waletzko.
- He is a freakish athlete. His 9.96 RAS was 6th of 1218 OTs from 1987 to 2022.
- He was already within an NFL weight range when drafted (315).

Free Agent option:
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-og-dalton-risner.510850/page-2#post-12758191

“- I reviewed all of his snaps in that game. In my opinion he looked as good or better than McGovern.
- It was only 1 game (Bears). I don't know if the Bears DT are good or bad per se.”

It was one game against the Bears. The same Bears that we went up and down the field on all day. The same Bears that traded away their talent for future draft picks.

I remember Chaz Green also having one good game before getting exposed for who and what he was.

Any scenario that includes Edoga starting at left guard is a bad one.

 

[Stash]

Want to see Farniok battle for a starting spot opposite Martin . Keep 73 at LT and ease 77 back into full time duty as RT as the career winds down .

Not a fan of this idea.

 

[DanA]

I keep seeing claims that the OLine got worse and there is a huge "hole" at LG.

The only loss was McGovern. If the OLine got radically worse as claimed by CZ, then McGovern must have been a borderline All-Pro.

Note: In some games they alternated McGovern and 40 year old Jason Peters...

In 2021 McGovern started 4 games in place of Connor Williams.
- He was terrible.
- After his 4 starts, they switched back to Conner Penalty Williams.

In 2022 McGovern was somewhere between "good enough" and borderline All-Pro depending on who you ask.

Tyler, Steele and Tyron will all start if healthy.
- That means one of them (probably Tyler) starts at LG.
- Obviously Tyron will eventually miss a game or more with injury issues.

The top options at LG with Tyron out:
- Tyler at LT and Edoga or Farniok at LG.
or
- Waletzko at OG with Tyler at LG.


Farniok: I recently re-reviewed him vs the Bengals (He started 2 games with McGovern out).
- He was "good enough".
- He had many good snaps vs 345 pound DT Josh Tupou.
- He has some good and some bad snaps vs top tier DT DJ Reader.
- Summary: He was generally good physically but made some mistakes while playing next to rookie LT Tyler Smith early in the season.

Edoga:
- Played most (maybe all) games for the Jets at OT. Was a good run blocker but sometimes had issue with Pass blocking.
- Started 1 game last season for the Falcons at LG.
- I reviewed all of his snaps in that game. In my opinion he looked as good or better than McGovern.
- It was only 1 game (Bears). I don't know if the Bears DT are good or bad per se.
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-lg-chuma-edoga.510746/page-2#post-12758195

Waletzko:
- My 1st thought when I reviewed his college game footage was "He's a Tyler Smith mini-me".
- Not his physical build, but his play style and on-field demeanor.
- It is not surprising that the same people that drafted Tyler would draft Waletzko.
- He is a freakish athlete. His 9.96 RAS was 6th of 1218 OTs from 1987 to 2022.
- He was already within an NFL weight range when drafted (315).

Free Agent option:
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-og-dalton-risner.510850/page-2#post-12758191

I think the worry is that we went from average to bad at the left guard position and you can trash 40 y.o Jason Peters but he played 20% of offensive snaps with a PFF grade of 70.3 which is pretty damn good by my reckoning.

 

[Stash]

I think the worry is that we went from average to bad at the left guard position and you can trash 40 y.o Jason Peters but he played 20% of offensive snaps with a PFF grade of 70.3 which is pretty damn good by my reckoning.

It’s a Strawman argument to suggest that anyone has ever felt or said that McGovern was “all pro”.

But the fact is that this team felt that he was their best option to start at left guard. The 2022 season bears that out. If the team felt they had a better option, that guy would have been out there.

Another fact is that McGovern was quickly signed in free agency. Day one. A three year deal for $23 million.

Chuma Edoga is a career journeyman now playing for his third team. He signed a one-year, $1.232 million contract.

I have no issue with Matt Farniok and he might be a capable replacement.

But I’d like to see a more established option in the mix in case he’s not.

 

[Creeper]

I keep seeing claims that the OLine got worse and there is a huge "hole" at LG.

The only loss was McGovern. If the OLine got radically worse as claimed by CZ, then McGovern must have been a borderline All-Pro.

Note: In some games they alternated McGovern and 40 year old Jason Peters...

In 2021 McGovern started 4 games in place of Connor Williams.
- He was terrible.
- After his 4 starts, they switched back to Conner Penalty Williams.

In 2022 McGovern was somewhere between "good enough" and borderline All-Pro depending on who you ask.

Tyler, Steele and Tyron will all start if healthy.
- That means one of them (probably Tyler) starts at LG.
- Obviously Tyron will eventually miss a game or more with injury issues.

The top options at LG with Tyron out:
- Tyler at LT and Edoga or Farniok at LG.
or
- Waletzko at OG with Tyler at LG.


Farniok: I recently re-reviewed him vs the Bengals (He started 2 games with McGovern out).
- He was "good enough".
- He had many good snaps vs 345 pound DT Josh Tupou.
- He has some good and some bad snaps vs top tier DT DJ Reader.
- Summary: He was generally good physically but made some mistakes while playing next to rookie LT Tyler Smith early in the season.

Edoga:
- Played most (maybe all) games for the Jets at OT. Was a good run blocker but sometimes had issue with Pass blocking.
- Started 1 game last season for the Falcons at LG.
- I reviewed all of his snaps in that game. In my opinion he looked as good or better than McGovern.
- It was only 1 game (Bears). I don't know if the Bears DT are good or bad per se.
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-lg-chuma-edoga.510746/page-2#post-12758195

Waletzko:
- My 1st thought when I reviewed his college game footage was "He's a Tyler Smith mini-me".
- Not his physical build, but his play style and on-field demeanor.
- It is not surprising that the same people that drafted Tyler would draft Waletzko.
- He is a freakish athlete. His 9.96 RAS was 6th of 1218 OTs from 1987 to 2022.
- He was already within an NFL weight range when drafted (315).

Free Agent option:
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-og-dalton-risner.510850/page-2#post-12758191

McGovern was good enough. It would be nice to have an all-pro at every position but it isn't possible. But what gives me hope about the Cowboys OL is how McGovern went from a pretty awful player to "good enough" in about 3 years. I think Farniok has actually show more in his first 2 seasons and if he develops the way McGovern did, he can be good enough too. I would say the same about players like Waletzko, and even Ball. I am especially optimistic about Asim Richards in a year or 2.

However, we won't know until we see them so it does leave people a bit concerned.

 

[JayFord]

he was good

but CZ you know....we lose anyone and all of a sudden they were all pro top 5

 

[starfan1]

statistic are what they are but anyone who felt this was anything more than a middling line is fooling themselves. They were better run blockers than pass blockers and when Steele went down they got worse at that. Dak was rushed more than he should have been (thats partly on him) and there was little separation omong anyone not named CeeDee

The problem IMO is they had opportunities to improve and decided to go with a TE they could have gotten in the 3rd more than likely. Now they probably got better at blocking with the TE but LG is still average .Tyron is a year older and will probably be out by week 4 if he makes it out of training camp. I do think Tyler b got better as the year progressed so thats a bonus if h can return to llast years 2nd half form.

This team goes as the line goes and when you are facing the likes of of SF and philly front 7 you better be getting some push. If you are not youre in for a long day as you are asking dak to play Mahomes and hes not.

 

[xwalker]

“- I reviewed all of his snaps in that game. In my opinion he looked as good or better than McGovern.
- It was only 1 game (Bears). I don't know if the Bears DT are good or bad per se.”

It was one game against the Bears. The same Bears that we went up and down the field on all day. The same Bears that traded away their talent for future draft picks.

I remember Chaz Green also having one good game before getting exposed for who and what he was.

Any scenario that includes Edoga starting at left guard is a bad one.

You should just go ahead and change your user name to: TheSkyIsFalling

 

[Stash]

You should just go ahead and change your user name to: TheSkyIsFalling

Because I disagree with you? That sounds very narrow minded.

 

[gimmesix]

I keep seeing claims that the OLine got worse and there is a huge "hole" at LG.

The only loss was McGovern. If the OLine got radically worse as claimed by CZ, then McGovern must have been a borderline All-Pro.

Note: In some games they alternated McGovern and 40 year old Jason Peters...

In 2021 McGovern started 4 games in place of Connor Williams.
- He was terrible.
- After his 4 starts, they switched back to Conner Penalty Williams.

In 2022 McGovern was somewhere between "good enough" and borderline All-Pro depending on who you ask.

Tyler, Steele and Tyron will all start if healthy.
- That means one of them (probably Tyler) starts at LG.
- Obviously Tyron will eventually miss a game or more with injury issues.

The top options at LG with Tyron out:
- Tyler at LT and Edoga or Farniok at LG.
or
- Waletzko at OG with Tyler at LG.


Farniok: I recently re-reviewed him vs the Bengals (He started 2 games with McGovern out).
- He was "good enough".
- He had many good snaps vs 345 pound DT Josh Tupou.
- He has some good and some bad snaps vs top tier DT DJ Reader.
- Summary: He was generally good physically but made some mistakes while playing next to rookie LT Tyler Smith early in the season.

Edoga:
- Played most (maybe all) games for the Jets at OT. Was a good run blocker but sometimes had issue with Pass blocking.
- Started 1 game last season for the Falcons at LG.
- I reviewed all of his snaps in that game. In my opinion he looked as good or better than McGovern.
- It was only 1 game (Bears). I don't know if the Bears DT are good or bad per se.
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-lg-chuma-edoga.510746/page-2#post-12758195

Waletzko:
- My 1st thought when I reviewed his college game footage was "He's a Tyler Smith mini-me".
- Not his physical build, but his play style and on-field demeanor.
- It is not surprising that the same people that drafted Tyler would draft Waletzko.
- He is a freakish athlete. His 9.96 RAS was 6th of 1218 OTs from 1987 to 2022.
- He was already within an NFL weight range when drafted (315).

Free Agent option:
https://cowboyszone.com/threads/cowboys-og-dalton-risner.510850/page-2#post-12758191

McGovern was good enough to get a three-year, $22 million contract from the Bills. We signed his roster replacement, Edoga, for $1.2 million. That tells you that someone in the league thinks there's a significant difference.

And that's fine if the plan is to start Tyron at LT and Tyler at LG. We should be better with that combination. But we all know that Tyron will eventually get hurt and we have no idea whether Farniok or Edoga will even be as good as McGovern was last year (which was much better than his brief stint the previous year).

We have options (including the rookies we've brought in) and we can always turn to FA if necessary like we did last year when we brought in Peters, but I don't see any reason to pretend that McGovern isn't considered the better player than the ones we have to replace him (other than the Tyron-Tyler combo). May not turn out that way, but if you follow the money, that's what it tells us.

 

[xwalker]

Because I disagree with you? That sounds very narrow minded.

No, it's because that's always your focus.

Pick a topic or player and continually over-exaggerate it as a sky is falling type crisis.

 

[Stash]

No, it's because that's always your focus.

That’s not accurate at all.

Pick a topic or player and continually over-exaggerate it as a sky is falling type crisis.

You just can’t seem to handle the fact that I disagree with you. It happens sometimes.

 

[INCowboysFan]

It’s a Strawman argument to suggest that anyone has ever felt or said that McGovern was “all pro”.

But the fact is that this team felt that he was their best option to start at left guard. The 2022 season bears that out. If the team felt they had a better option, that guy would have been out there.

Another fact is that McGovern was quickly signed in free agency. Day one. A three year deal for $23 million.

Chuma Edoga is a career journeyman now playing for his third team. He signed a one-year, $1.232 million contract.

I have no issue with Matt Farniok and he might be a capable replacement.

But I’d like to see a more established option in the mix in case he’s not.

Had Tyron not torn his hamstring last year, Tyler would have been the starting LG. And that is the way they will start out this year. So yes, LG is upgraded (so is LT) with Tyler Smith. McGovern was only the best option to start because Tyron ripped his hamstring off the bone.

 

[Stash]

Had Tyron not torn his hamstring last year, Tyler would have been the starting LG. And that is the way they will start out this year. So yes, LG is upgraded (so is LT) with Tyler Smith. McGovern was only the best option to start because Tyron ripped his hamstring off the bone.

If it’s Tyler Smith playing left guard, I have no issues. If you can guarantee that, I’ll feel better.

 

[gimmesix]

If it’s Tyler Smith playing left guard, I have no issues. If you can guarantee that, I’ll feel better.

I blame it on Jerry. He's the one who brought up the possibility of Tyler staying at LT and Tyron going to RT. Before that, the assumption was Tyron would be the LT, Tyler the LG and Steele the RT. I believe Stephen/McCarthy said the best five will play. If that's the case, I expect it to be Tyron-Tyler-Biadasz-Martin-Steele until Tyron gets hurt and misses some time.