Was Our Secondary That Bad?

[BlueStar22]

Something I have been thinking about. I really like Jones and I think he was solid for much of the the year, but it seems like he struggled as the year wore on. What if we moved him back to CB? He has the physical traits to be a Sherman type CB and generally Safeties are generally a relatively cheap buy in FA. The fact that Heath has led our team in interceptions that last two years tells me a ball hawk safety would be really help out and it would give us Jones, Scandrick, and Brown at CB heading into the draft.

We ask Jones to cover some big *** TE's. He has a decent frame but he is kinda slight. Look at some of the other free safeties we face. Those guys are a little bit more put together. Still think Jones would have made a better corner with some experience.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

Jones is gonna be fine. He had a bad game yesterday, no sugar coating it. But nobody notices the throws QBs didn't attempt this season because Jones had his guy in coverage. He'll continue to get better. I'm not really worried about him.

Carr was solid all year. Not spectacular. Not worth the contract, but solid. I'll gladly take him again next year if he comes cheap.

Claiborne needs to go. Simply can't stay healthy. In this game, nothing else matters if you can't stay on the field.

Brown looks solid, but I don't see the No. 1 CB traits. He panics and grabs too much. He relies on his eyes and they get him into trouble instead of just playing with technique. That's a hard habit to break. I hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't expect more than Carr-level production for his career - which is great for a sixth-round pick.

Church is solid, but not spectacular. Don't mind if he comes back, but wouldn't mind upgrading if the situation presents itself. He can be a liability but he's also the closest thing we have to a playmaker on the back end.

Heath is a decent backup player. Let's keep him in that role. If he has to play too many snaps, he'll get exposed.

Scandrick has played better in the past, but I wonder if that guy is still in there. I don't think he was healthy all year. I don't know if he's capable of staying healthy.

We could use a top-flight corner (who couldn't?). If that happened, the rest of the secondary would look just fine.

A good pass-rush would also help. I think we're two players away right now. A dynamic pass rusher and a top-level corner. Problem is, everybody is looking for that. If we can get one of those, and keep the rest of the secondary intact (minus Claiborne), I'm ok with that.

 

[Floatyworm]

I could have completed passes against our secondary....That's how much time Discount double check had time to throw.
That 3 man rush Marinelli just has to run....is pathetic. Has it ever created a turnover? I mean the whole point of it is to have guys sitting in a zone...waiting to break on the football. Yet...we never seem to make a play out of that set.

 

[Paniolo22]

This. I was shocked at how many contests catches the Packers made. It was a ridiculous amount. If you watch it, a lot of times the coverage is right there, the ball just stuck.

 

[tyke1doe]

Against an ordinary quarterback, your pass rush is better and your secondary is better - like we did in certain games this season.
Against an ordinary quarterback, your pass rush can lack but your secondary can shine - like we did in certain games this season.
Against an elite quarterback, your pass rush, if not exceptional, will make your secondary look terrible - like what happened yesterday.

Our secondary is above average, though not great or on the level of the Broncos and Chiefs. But because we got no pass rush, the GREAT Aaron Rodgers carved them up.

I've often said, an elite quarterback throwing to a receiver who runs the proper routes will be the best secondary, even if it includes Deion Sanders. Rodgers was just on another level yesterday. He is the reason we loss.

Having said that, I still want Marlon Humphreys if he's available at our pick at #28.

 

[Western]

Garrett needs to hold Marinelli & Co. accountable.
But, Mr. Nice Guy Garrett does not have the guts to replace or demote Marinelli.

Jimmy demoted David Shula as offensive coordinator after the 1990 season.
Jimmy made a concerted effort to find an offensive play-caller -- Norv Turner in 1991 -- because Jimmy was committed in holding coaches answerable for their respective unit's performance.

It's time for Garrett to put on his big boy pants and find a defensive coordinator who can develop and motivate players and game-plan against offenses.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

The Dallas DBs are complementary players; not one of them is a playmaker. It's hard to shut down an elite QB if you do not have a dominant pass rush and you are an average non-playmaking DB.

It's true. Not a single one of our CBs is an actual playmaker outside of perhaps Brown. Can anyone name a single time Mo showed the instincts and anticipation to successfully jump a route?

That's the hallmark of a playmaking corner.

 

[Nova]

I actually didn't think it was that bad.

As I said before the game, their WRs can't beat our guys, and they really didn't most of the game.

It was Rodgers having loads and loads of time and being damn near perfect that did us in.

 

[Nova]

Rushing three and spying one was a decent defense for the last play.

Irving actually got a good jump, but was taken down questionably.

But Rodgers just made a play.

 

[The Natural]

Something I have been thinking about. I really like Jones and I think he was solid for much of the the year, but it seems like he struggled as the year wore on. What if we moved him back to CB? He has the physical traits to be a Sherman type CB and generally Safeties are generally a relatively cheap buy in FA. The fact that Heath has led our team in interceptions that last two years tells me a ball hawk safety would be really help out and it would give us Jones, Scandrick, and Brown at CB heading into the draft.

Byron isn't too agile (in pads) and he doesn't have good hips. If you really pay attention he is always getting turned around in coverage, from the CB and S spot. People can say wait 3 years, I prefer to rely on what I see with my own eyes. He isn't a good long term fit at either position.

 

[xwalker]

Something I have been thinking about. I really like Jones and I think he was solid for much of the the year, but it seems like he struggled as the year wore on. What if we moved him back to CB? He has the physical traits to be a Sherman type CB and generally Safeties are generally a relatively cheap buy in FA. The fact that Heath has led our team in interceptions that last two years tells me a ball hawk safety would be really help out and it would give us Jones, Scandrick, and Brown at CB heading into the draft.

Safety is the hardest position for fans to analyze.
1. You have to study the All-22 to have any chance to accurately assess Safeties. Most people complaining about Jones are not watching the All-22.

2. Fans can only guess on the Safety's responsibility on many plays.

3. The CBs were better this year with the rookie Brown being the only new CB. Considering that the pass rush is not great, it is highly likely Byron Jones at Safety was a big boost to the CBs.

4. Barry Church is slow and old guy Durant was one if the 2 Nickel LBs. Their deficiencies contribute to how much space the FS is trying to cover.

5. On that final catch by the TE, I didn't see a good view of the coverage. Jones was not in man on him. The Cowboys appeared to be in somewhat of a prevent coverage, but the All-22 is needed to verify exactly what hapened.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

Garrett needs to hold Marinelli & Co. accountable.
But, Mr. Nice Guy Garrett does not have the guts to replace or demote Marinelli.

Jimmy demoted David Shula as offensive coordinator after the 1990 season.
Jimmy made a concerted effort to find an offensive play-caller -- Norv Turner in 1991 -- because Jimmy was committed in holding coaches answerable for their respective unit's performance.

It's time for Garrett to put on his big boy pants and find a defensive coordinator who can develop and motivate players and game-plan against offenses.

This team has no pass rushers, for Dallas to be fifth in the league in scoring defense without a pass rusher is a damn miracle. Yes, I know that offense has a part in that with TOP, but Marinelli did well without top line talent in most positions. Marinelli is not the problem.

You better have someone better to replace him and if Rob Ryan is getting DC interviews then we know there isn't much talent out there right now.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Rodgers had way too much time to throw. Hard to blame that on the secondary.

 

[Kolemmitt]

We ask Jones to cover some big *** TE's. He has a decent frame but he is kinda slight. Look at some of the other free safeties we face. Those guys are a little bit more put together. Still think Jones would have made a better corner with some experience.

Safety is the hardest position for fans to analyze.
1. You have to study the All-22 to have any chance to accurately assess Safeties. Most people complaining about Jones are not watching the All-22.

2. Fans can only guess on the Safety's responsibility on many plays.

3. The CBs were better this year with the rookie Brown being the only new CB. Considering that the pass rush is not great, it is highly likely Byron Jones at Safety was a big boost to the CBs.

4. Barry Church is slow and old guy Durant was one if the 2 Nickel LBs. Their deficiencies contribute to how much space the FS is trying to cover.

5. On that final catch by the TE, I didn't see a good view of the coverage. Jones was not in man on him. The Cowboys appeared to be in somewhat of a prevent coverage, but the All-22 is needed to verify exactly what hapened.

Thanks for info! I will be the first to admit I spend most of my time watching the linemen, so based on your post, is Church a guy that we can/should upgrade? How did Wilcox look in the spot when Church was out? If you were advising the Cowboys would you suggest we try to resign Carr and Clairborne or go in a new direction? Thanks!

 

[bigdnlaca]

And the calls. Why rush only 3 on 3rd and 20, giving Rodgers plenty of time to perform yet another miracle?

In the last game between the 2. The Cowboys used that play on a 3rd and long and sacked Rodgers because Durant came in free as a spy. However, Durant was called for a facemask on the sack.

In this case, I dont think the Cowboys expected the Guard to roll with him.

 

[xwalker]

Thanks for info! I will be the first to admit I spend most of my time watching the linemen, so based on your post, is Church a guy that we can/should upgrade? How did Wilcox look in the spot when Church was out? If you were advising the Cowboys would you suggest we try to resign Carr and Clairborne or go in a new direction? Thanks!

Good questions.

Church is steady but is limited due to a lack of speed. They have to be careful, because they could end up with a worse player if they move on from Church and depend on a young guy. On the other hand, it would be helpful to have a Strong Safety with more range. Ideally you would like to be able to have the Strong Safety occasionally cover the TE in man coverage, but Church can't do that. The Cowboys have some LBs that are likely faster than Church. Another thing to consider is that as speed limited players age, they don't have much margin before they are just too slow. The super fast guys can lose some speed as they age and often still be OK.

Wilcox has played quite a bit even when Church was not out. When they play the 3-2 package, that has 6 DBs on the field. The Dime defense is a 4-1-6 which again has 6 DBs on the field. I have not really studied Wilcox much this season but from what I have seen he has been much better than in past years. It's odd because he was his absolute worst ever this preseason. I think in retrospect, that the new DB coaching hierarchy must have been forcing him to learn to play 'their" way and to unlearn what the previous DB coach had taught him. The Cowboy would be OK if he replaced Church but he would likely be a player that you would want to upgrade if possible. His role this season as a 5th or 6th DB was ideal for him, IMO.

Carr is a difficult decision and it obviously depends on the cost. He has never missed a game or start in the NFL. There is value in that even if he is just a mediocre player. He is another speed and athletically limited player and he is 30 which means that he will just get slower as the months pass. Also Carr has said he is considering retirement.

Claiborne is another difficult decision. He played really well in the first 7 games before being injured. He has never played a full season and has only played about 3 of 16 possible preseason games. Even at his very best, he is not a ballhawk (He was in college but not in the NFL). I expect them to sign him to another 1-year, 3M deal.

Scandrick is showing signs of decline and might be approaching injury prone. He is under contract, but these issues just add to the need for more talent to be added at the CB position. Scandrick has the worst hands that I can remember seeing for a starting NFL player.

Brown was terrific considering that he was a rookie. Some people will complain about a few bad plays, but he played well over 700 snaps as a rookie and only had a handful of bad plays.

Leon McFadden is the last CB on the roster. They didn't even have a CB on the practice squad. He did OK in very limited action. I can't really blame him for giving up a TD to possibly the best WR in the league on a trick play. He is smallish and not overly fast and this is his 3rd season of hanging around the NFL so his upside is limited.

Summary: They could stand to both sign a quality free agent CB (maybe Trumaine Johnson) and to use a premium pick on one in the draft. I doubt if they use a premium pick on a Safety but if the right opportunity comes along, I would do it.

 

[baltcowboy]

Safety is the hardest position for fans to analyze.
1. You have to study the All-22 to have any chance to accurately assess Safeties. Most people complaining about Jones are not watching the All-22.

2. Fans can only guess on the Safety's responsibility on many plays.

3. The CBs were better this year with the rookie Brown being the only new CB. Considering that the pass rush is not great, it is highly likely Byron Jones at Safety was a big boost to the CBs.

4. Barry Church is slow and old guy Durant was one if the 2 Nickel LBs. Their deficiencies contribute to how much space the FS is trying to cover.

5. On that final catch by the TE, I didn't see a good view of the coverage. Jones was not in man on him. The Cowboys appeared to be in somewhat of a prevent coverage, but the All-22 is needed to verify exactly what hapened.

I agree. Cowboyzone wants to compare Jones to Landon Collins. Last year Collins was the second coming of Roy Williams. When the Giants invested in the defense. He became all-pro. Aaron Rodgers exposed his pass coverage last week.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

It's not a very athletic secondary... It's more so now with Jones at FS, but more is needed.

 

[LocimusPrime]

There should be C on heaths jersey for the way he played last night. That's the real captain of the secondary.

 

[DanTanna]

"Is our defense really that bad?"

Tony Romo says HI for the last 10 years...