We need help for Rat at the nose!

[LarryCanadian]

I love Rat, but he wore down by end of season and it was reported that he has to lower his whole body into the ice tub after every game because he plays the nose at a lean 300 lbs (I doubt he is that heavy actually) and takes a TON of punishment. Those Baltimore runs through the middle of D weren't on Rat per se, but the whole middle of our D was blasted and then our safeties tackled purely when we knew run plays were coming. Rat was quiet against Phili too (so was whole team).

The guy just isn't one of those huge space eaters. Rat isn't fat and can't absorb all that punishment, and we NEED him at his best at end of year AND in playoffs, not killing himself in first 10 weeks.

Now I read that the "saviour" Saivii (sp?) is actually 30 years old and hasn't played for 3 years? This is our answer? I sure hope not. I really feel that position needs to be address as early as possible in draft so that we can rotate the Rat and keep his motor running all game and all season, especially at end. If we can't find a NT, I think they need to try and return Spears to at least part time duty there. He has the strength and body type (low, heavy center of gravity) to plug the middle, especially on run plays. If Rat gets hurt, oh man, what then?

This isn't anything against Raitliff, just a need in the middle. Tank didn't play to the level of his mouth or his talent, and will very likely not be back unless nobody else picks him up and we end up giving him a very low contract. Plus, don't think they want his attitude and lack of judgement on team any more.

LarryCanadian

 

[Yeagermeister]

Two words....Ron Brace

 

[dbair1967]

It's a concern, but not the kind of concern alot of people in here make it out to be.

I'd look at some late rd guys to compete for the backup spot and maybe give 10-12 snaps a game, but Ratliff is one of the best in football.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Two words....Ron Brace

no way

 

[jobberone]

Another convert.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I've been saying the same thing even before Tank was allowed to leave. JMO but I don't see a legit NT backup on our roster right now. I'm mildly concerned enough to hope we address this in the middle of the draft.

 

[jobberone]

I've been saying the same thing even before Tank was allowed to leave. JMO but I don't see a legit NT backup on our roster right now. I'm mildly concerned enough to hope we address this in the middle of the draft.

Like since early last season. Or was it the middle? Where is ole Tank? I guess no one picked him up. Is he truly gone?

 

[Bluefin]

Like since early last season. Or was it the middle? Where is ole Tank? I guess no one picked him up. Is he truly gone?

The house of dysfunction called the Cincinnati Bengals is the only team I've heard of bringing Tank Johnson in for a visit.

It was a week or two ago.

I wonder if Tank is as excited to be a free agent now as he was following the season ending Eagles debacle?

 

[Rampage]

Two words....Ron Brace

no way

Bob Sacamanowned!

but seriously unless Ratliff packs on another 20 pounds him getting all those sacks last year was terrible for the future of our defense.

 

[ddh33]

I have to admit, these coaches just about have me convinced that they think Siavii can do that job. They've even played up his relationship with Olshanksy. And let's be honest, it's not going to take much to improve on Tank Johnson.

But I am still skeptical about the backup NT being on the team. I just don't think this staff is treating it as a big priority.

 

[Bluefin]

I have to admit, these coaches just about have me convinced that they think Siavii can do that job. They've even played up his relationship with Olshanksy. And let's be honest, it's not going to take much to improve on Tank Johnson.

But I am still skeptical about the backup NT being on the team. I just don't think this staff is treating it as a big priority.

If we happen to land a rookie who can handle the reserve role, great.

If not, I'm not going to pull the covers over my head worrying about Junior Siavii being able to handle spot duty.

He should be up to the task if needed and it is very encouraging that we looked at resigning him before last season ended.

 

[21Savage]

People who say Rat wore down towards the end of the season are people who don't watch any of our D line play and just spout off at the mouth the same same off base comments that were instigated by a few ignoramuses.

Rat actually played a great NT as the season came towards the close. From the Bucs game on, our NT play was outstanding. If you also watch the games, you'd notice that he and Tank were pretty much splitting reps on run downs. Tank also had a period where he played pretty well and that helped out the run D.

Blaming the runs in the Ravens game couldn't be more ignorant IMO. Go search NFL playbook (anatomy of the play) and the same show that supposedly exposed Rat as being a bad NT showed him stifling a double team and holding up two OLs. The culprits in those 2 plays were Spears (which is why I've actually cooled off on Spears run stopping abilities) and our safeties. On one of the plays, Spears got pushed off the line so bad that he took out Bradie James from the play also, literally being knocked into Bradie like a bowling pin. On the other play, he was also pushed off the line and Rat actually blitzed/slanted inside towards the A gap on the left side of the center. Keith Davis wasn't supposed to go in motion with the TE, but he did and left a void when Spears didn't hold up. The Hamlin missed on the tackle.

Spears has been an extremely good run stopping end but by the end of the season I saw him get rolled up in those 2 run plays in the Baltimore game (despite playing a solid game overall), get dominated by Will Colon of the Steelers (he actually got pushed out of plays more times in that game than I've seen him since his rookie season), and by John Runyan. In the same period, Hatcher was significantly better against the run opposing the same players.

I hope Hatcher wins the job next training camp. He's been raw but this is a make or break year for him IMO. It also determines what happens to him in FA. It's normal protocol to just regurgitate the same cliche that Hatcher is inferior to Spears in the run game but in the limited times he's gotten, I've actually seen nothing to that. He also gets more pressure than Spears, which ironically is were Hatcher has been dissapointing. There are games when he looks like an all pro 3-4 DE in how he stops the run and pressures the QB. He's prolly our only end who's shown an ability to actually turn the corner on a guard or tackle. Then there are other games when he just runs into a guards and does too much hand fighting like Spears. I also notice he's more of a beast when he uses his hands better.

As far as Rat goes, I believe he'll start and be the center mainly when we keep our 3-4 alignment against a 3 WR set (with one CB over each WR). I believe Siavii or Anderson will play NT most of the time in 2 WR sets and our short yardage package where we mostly move Rat to an end position anyways.

And I'm willing to debate anybody who thinks some NT we get in the 3rd or 4th round would come in and do better than Siavii and Anderson who've actually been throught the NFL rigamarole, have grown into their bodies and have improved on the raw technique all these guys come into the league with.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Oh great, another name calling genius!

 

[AdamJT13]

I love Rat, but he wore down by end of season and it was reported that he has to lower his whole body into the ice tub after every game because he plays the nose at a lean 300 lbs (I doubt he is that heavy actually) and takes a TON of punishment.

It doesn't sound like the coaches are ready to move Ratliff to end, so he's just going to have to get used to it. He played less than 65 percent of the snaps last season, so it's not like he never got a break.

 

[Goldenrichards83]

Front And Center
Draft Series: Cowboys Need Depth At DT
Josh Ellis - Email
DallasCowboys.com Staff Writer


IRVING, Texas - As with just about any player the Cowboys pick later this month, a defensive tackle would be hard-pressed to crack the starting lineup.

It can't be considered a great position of need since the Cowboys only play one at a time in their 3-4 base defense. But that one person certainly has a huge bearing on how productive the linebackers play, needing the ability to hold up blockers so they can roam free. Given the physical toll offensive linemen put on nose tackles each snap, the Cowboys could use a player they feel comfortable starting in a pinch.

What They Have: Coming off his first Pro Bowl appearance, and just one season into the five-year contract extension he signed in 2007, Jay Ratliff isn't going anywhere. He'll continue to take the majority of snaps in the middle of the Cowboys' three-man line, and again be expected to provide the nice push on pass plays he did in 2008. The Cowboys defensive staff credited Ratliff with a team-high 31 quarterback hurries last year, along with 7.5 sacks and 83 tackles, numbers they would gladly accept again in 2009.

Behind Ratliff the position gets thin. Defensive tackle Junior Siavii is back with the team after being let go in the final cuts last summer. The 6-5, 320-pound 30-year-old impressed coaches with his play in training camp and the preseason, but the presence of Tank Johnson made him expendable. A second-round pick of Kansas City in 2004, Siavii hasn't played in the NFL the last three seasons, but coach Wade Phillips recently expressed confidence he and fellow veteran pickup Tim Anderson could spell Ratliff.

Anderson was a third-round pick for Buffalo in 2004, playing there for four seasons before spending 2007 in Atlanta. He was out of football in 2008, and only played a combined nine games between 2006 and 2007. Still, at 6-3, 325 pounds and just 28-years-old, he could be able to push for a roster spot.


What They Need: The Cowboys signed Johnson to a two-year deal just before the 2007 season and waited for him to serve an eight-game suspension before adding him to the lineup. He wasn't outstanding in his first year with the club, but didn't have a training camp or other practice with the team to fall back on, and expectations were higher for him in 2008. As the year went along though, Johnson never became the playmaker the Cowboys hoped they were getting. One coach said he routinely blew assignments and took offense to instruction in meetings, and the Cowboys did not even offer him an extension before he became a free agent in late February.


The Cowboys could use a defensive tackle who is the polar opposite of Johnson - one willing to maintain his gap responsibilities and keep blockers off the linebackers, and humble enough to realize he's not going to be a starter. Siavii and Anderson might be interesting guys to have for a look-see in camp, but when players go whole years at a time without playing it doesn't speak well for their NFL futures.


By adding a rookie defensive tackle with one of their first few picks, the Cowboys would ideally be bringing in a player worthy of 15-20 snaps a game. That would be plenty of rest for Ratliff, who's smallish for a nose tackle, thus begging questions about his ability to hold up against the run.


Who's Out There: Boston College offers two of the best interior defensive linemen in this class. Stumpy space-eater B.J. Raji is considered out of the Cowboys' reach, likely to go in the first half of round one, but his teammate Ron Brace could be there when the Cowboys go on the clock for the 51st overall pick. Brace (6-3, 330) isn't used to playing in a 3-4, but has all the requisite size for the job, and he and Raji were a formidable run-stopping duo for the Eagles in 2008.


The tricky part of drafting nose tackles is finding players with enough size, but who are more than mere blobs and have the ability to make plays on occasion. Players like LSU's Ricky Jean-Francois (6-3, 295), Georgia's Corey Irvin (6-3, 301) and Georgia Tech's Darryl Richard (6-3, 303) are likely mid-rounders who might traditionally be considered borderline 3-4 options. Phillips' scheme has made productive options out of smaller players before though, like Ratliff, a seventh-round pick out of Auburn in 2005. Missouri's Evander "Ziggy" Hood (6-3, 300) is in that mold as well, but he may be off the board before the Cowboys pick.

Some of the more prototypical nose tackles in the 2009 class include Dorell Scott, a 6-3, 312-pounder from Clemson, or Marlon Favorite (6-1, 314) from LSU. There are a few players from smaller schools the Cowboys could look at as well, like Chris Baker (6-2, 326) out of Hampton, Terrance Knighton (6-3, 321) of Temple or Stillman's Sammie Lee Hill (6-4, 329).

 

[NextGenBoys]

I love Rat, but he wore down by end of season and it was reported that he has to lower his whole body into the ice tub after every game because he plays the nose at a lean 300 lbs (I doubt he is that heavy actually) and takes a TON of punishment. Those Baltimore runs through the middle of D weren't on Rat per se, but the whole middle of our D was blasted and then our safeties tackled purely when we knew run plays were coming. Rat was quiet against Phili too (so was whole team).

The guy just isn't one of those huge space eaters. Rat isn't fat and can't absorb all that punishment, and we NEED him at his best at end of year AND in playoffs, not killing himself in first 10 weeks.

Now I read that the "saviour" Saivii (sp?) is actually 30 years old and hasn't played for 3 years? This is our answer? I sure hope not. I really feel that position needs to be address as early as possible in draft so that we can rotate the Rat and keep his motor running all game and all season, especially at end. If we can't find a NT, I think they need to try and return Spears to at least part time duty there. He has the strength and body type (low, heavy center of gravity) to plug the middle, especially on run plays. If Rat gets hurt, oh man, what then?

This isn't anything against Raitliff, just a need in the middle. Tank didn't play to the level of his mouth or his talent, and will very likely not be back unless nobody else picks him up and we end up giving him a very low contract. Plus, don't think they want his attitude and lack of judgement on team any more.

LarryCanadian

I agree. People keep giving Ratliff praise, and deservedly so, but fact of the matter is he can be pushed off the ball and moved around at times in the run game. He is a top notch NT, but his specialty is a pass rushing NT, which is an extremely strange thing to say for a 3-4 NT. But we all know his strength is rushing the passer from the middle and collapsing the pocket. This really helps Ware/Ellis get sacks because the pressure is coming from all over due to Ratliffs unique ability.

Now I'm not saying he is a liability in the run game, but he can get pushed around at times in the middle. I think having a big body in the middle to spell him and move him around would make the defensive line better due to flexibility. He is going to be more effective at DE in a running scenario than NT. To move Ratliff around and give him some rest, a big boy in the middle would be a very nice addition.

I dont know if we have to go NT with our first selection, ( I want ILB) but whether it be a draft pick or someone on our roster, I think we need a big strong NT to take on the middle.

 

[Idgit]

I agree. People keep giving Ratliff praise, and deservedly so, but fact of the matter is he can be pushed off the ball and moved around at times in the run game. He is a top notch NT, but his specialty is a pass rushing NT, which is an extremely strange thing to say for a 3-4 NT. But we all know his strength is rushing the passer from the middle and collapsing the pocket. This really helps Ware/Ellis get sacks because the pressure is coming from all over due to Ratliffs unique ability.

Now I'm not saying he is a liability in the run game, but he can get pushed around at times in the middle. I think having a big body in the middle to spell him and move him around would make the defensive line better due to flexibility. He is going to be more effective at DE in a running scenario than NT. To move Ratliff around and give him some rest, a big boy in the middle would be a very nice addition.

I dont know if we have to go NT with our first selection, ( I want ILB) but whether it be a draft pick or someone on our roster, I think we need a big strong NT to take on the middle.

NGB, you're not a poster prone to seeing things that aren't there. I'm curious where you thought Rat was pushed around last year. I don't recall any games where he had particular problems.

I've got not problem trying to upgrade at b/u NT, but don't want to move Rattliff to DE and don't see why some people seem to think he's not able to hold up playing 2/3 time at NT.

 

[the kid 05]

It doesn't sound like the coaches are ready to move Ratliff to end, so he's just going to have to get used to it. He played less than 65 percent of the snaps last season, so it's not like he never got a break.

really? wow i would have guessed it to be higher then that. do you know off hand Ware's percentage?

 

[Idgit]

really? wow i would have guessed it to be higher then that. do you know off hand Ware's percentage?

Adam's reported previously that Ware played something like 98% of the defensive snaps.

 

[the kid 05]

Adam's reported previously that Ware played something like 98% of the defensive snaps.

ka i got 1 of the 2 right lol