We won't be players in FA again in my opinion

[HowardC]

If they just brought in 1 FA DT I'd be happy... Poe

 

[cowboyec]

with Paul Alexander now our OL coach,I wonder if we'll sign f/a OT/OG Andre Smith...could be our new OG and swing tackle.

 

[IrishAnto]

Except you wouldn't be spending just $6MM on Hitchens, you'd be spending $6MM on him for multiple years.

Again, $6MM a year would make him a Top 10ish paid ILB. He's not nearly that good.

Again if you don't sign him you need to spend a premium pick on a LB because you can't go into next year relying on Lee and Smith.

Secondly if this team is going to build and progress you need to start keeping players that are productive and not let them go to be replaced by rookies or cheap free agents.

Anyhow who's to say a good deal can't be struck with Hitchens.
Most people last year assumed T Will would leave.

 

[LittleD]

Hitchens is replaceable. We spent a 4th, he should net us at least a 4th next year. No need to pay him.

You are right. He has never made the pro bowl or all pro so he's just a serviceable guy who can fill in when needed. I don't view
him as a vital piece to pay another contract to. We can find a cheaper version in FA or definitely in the draft. Actually, our defense
back end needs speed at almost all positions.

 

[Sydla]

Again if you don't sign him you need to spend a premium pick on a LB because you can't go into next year relying on Lee and Smith.

Secondly if this team is going to build and progress you need to start keeping players that are productive and not let them go to be replaced by rookies or cheap free agents.

Anyhow who's to say a good deal can't be struck with Hitchens.
Most people last year assumed T Will would leave.

This is why teams get into cap problems. They panic and overpay for players.

So with Hitchens, while I would like to keep him, if he's going to demand and possibly get a big deal relative to other ILBs, you have to pass. It's just fiscally smart. He's not good enough that you have to feel you are bent over a barrel in this situation (such as say with Lawrence, where you know he's considered an elite-ish level DE and know teams will pay out the wazoo for that type of guy).

 

[Stash]

with Paul Alexander now our OL coach,I wonder if we'll sign f/a OT/OG Andre Smith...could be our new OG and swing tackle.

He looks to be a guard/right tackle option only at this point.

 

[gjkoeppen]

For argument sank, let's use your numbers. Martin is guaranteed 9.3m this year unless they cut him before June 1, which they're not going. Now, say he doesn't sign an extension and instead signs a FA contract after 2018 for the # you provide - 35m guaranteed / 75m total / 5 years. So, the total for the next 6 years is 44.3m guaranteed / 84.3m total. The cap hit in year 1 is 9.3m, years 2-6 is 15m (assuming the salary component is constant). However, a new 6 year contract could be signed this year that pays him the same 84.3 total and 44.3m guaranteed with the salary component in year 1 (2018) being 2m and escalating by 2m per year thereafter. The cap hit in 2018 would be 9.4m (7.4m prorated bonus plus 2m salary) and then going up by 2m per year thereafter. The difference in the 2018 cap hit vs. playing under the rookie option is zero.

The downside to the above is there would be diminishing dead money in 2019-2023 hanging over the Cowboys' head like the Sword of Damocles. But it's a good risk / reward for an offensive lineman of Martin's ilk and age. If you're really worried about that, you let him play under the rookie option, draft a replacement (if you can find someone of his caliber), and then let him walk after this year.

The point I've been trying to make all along is Martin and/or his agent knowing that the demand for him is going to be very high will not take a contract this year that is back end loaded and have to wait to be paid on salary based like the best guard in football and will instead play on the option year deal and next year wait for the offers that aren't back end loaded but with the same signing bonus. There is just too much money these days being offered by teams that have the cap space for players to have to accept back end loaded deals. Players know that when you are the best you expect to be paid like the best and that's not back ended contracts that they may or may not ever see the end of. I don't hope for it but he could end up with some chronic injury down the road that will limit his ability to see the end of this contract. It's happened before and players are aware of this.
.

 

[cowboyec]

He looks to be a guard/right tackle option only at this point.

he'll probably get priced out of our range but if not...Id bring him in....still re-sign Cooper and still draft someone and let'em have at it in camp.
I would expect a fmr Alexander OL to come here...if not Smith then someone else.

 

[gjkoeppen]

There isn’t a frog’s chance in hell I would pay Hitchens like 8MM a year in a long term deal.

That’s insanity and the exact way you start putting yourself back in cap problems.

There were 2 years where the cap only went up by 2 and 4.5 mil and only the NFL and the teams have an actual good idea what the cap limits in the future will be. All of the media outlets that show what they will be are only guesses because the NFL only releases the next years cap amount just prior to end of the current season and the media then gusses based on what any increase there was but each year it's been different amounts. Another thing if the current trend in loss of viewership continues the TV contracts won't be as big as in past years which is 99.9% of what the cap is based on.

 

[Stash]

he'll probably get priced out of our range but if not...Id bring him in....still re-sign Cooper and still draft someone and let'em have at it in camp.
I would expect a fmr Alexander OL to come here...if not Smith then someone else.

I view him as a slightly better Byron Bell at this point. Marginally better, but still not a viable option at left tackle. And that's where I see the biggest need, and one you're likely not going to be able to fill in free agency.

Many fans say "this team needs to sign a free agent swing tackle". Really? What team doesn't? The fact is that there aren't enough quality starters to go around in this league, much less guys that can play both sides waiting for a phone call.

It's unreasonable to think that you can just "find one", much less find one on the cheap.

 

[IrishAnto]

This is why teams get into cap problems. They panic and overpay for players.

So with Hitchens, while I would like to keep him, if he's going to demand and possibly get a big deal relative to other ILBs, you have to pass. It's just fiscally smart. He's not good enough that you have to feel you are bent over a barrel in this situation (such as say with Lawrence, where you know he's considered an elite-ish level DE and know teams will pay out the wazoo for that type of guy).

Again there are a lot of if’s there.

Demanding is one thing, getting is another.

I rather pay a little over the odds and keep a good reliable player than spend an unnecessary pick when there are bigger needs on this team.

If you don’t keep him then tell me how you address the gap?

 

[Sydla]

Again there are a lot of if’s there.

Demanding is one thing, getting is another.

I rather pay a little over the odds and keep a good reliable player than spend an unnecessary pick when there are bigger needs on this team.

If you don’t keep him then tell me how you address the gap?

There are ifs on your part as well.......... such as thinking you can get him for a fairly decent contract, even paying just a little bit more to keep him. What's the number by the way? You willing to guarantee enough money to make him a Top 5 paid ILB, for example?

Further, Hitchens is not good enough that he's irreplaceable. Lee is irreplaceable. Hitchens is far from that. There are vet LBs out there that can do what he does for a lesser cost. I'd go look at Karlos Dansby, for example. Still plays a very solid LB and would likely be much cheaper than Hitchens at this point. See what happens with Z. Brown again or DeMario Davis.

You need to draft LBs anyway in this draft. It would be moronic to sign Hitchens and think, gee, we have LB fixed!

 

[visionary]

Again if you don't sign him you need to spend a premium pick on a LB because you can't go into next year relying on Lee and Smith.

Secondly if this team is going to build and progress you need to start keeping players that are productive and not let them go to be replaced by rookies or cheap free agents.

Anyhow who's to say a good deal can't be struck with Hitchens.
Most people last year assumed T Will would leave.

Hitchens is limited
I'm not paying him starter money for multiple years
I'd rather sign someone like Bowman and draft a lb in rds 2-4 or sign someone like Brown and make him my starter st MLB

 

[Aven8]

I view him as a slightly better Byron Bell at this point. Marginally better, but still not a viable option at left tackle. And that's where I see the biggest need, and one you're likely not going to be able to fill in free agency.

Many fans say "this team needs to sign a free agent swing tackle". Really? What team doesn't? The fact is that there aren't enough quality starters to go around in this league, much less guys that can play both sides waiting for a phone call.

It's unreasonable to think that you can just "find one", much less find one on the cheap.

The Eagles have a 6th round draft pick playing LT for Peters and haven't skipped a beat. That's what we need to do. We need to find a OT that has played for 3-4 years in college, but maybe doesn't have all the measurables to be a top pick, but can develop. I don't want any that have any injury history either.

 

[Aven8]

That's probably true. But a second round pick plus your first could move you up significantly in the first round to nab a lot cheaper player.

But a better player than Irving? And it's going to cost more than a second to move up that far.

 

[Stash]

The Eagles have a 6th round draft pick playing LT for Peters and haven't skipped a beat. That's what we need to do. We need to find a OT that has played for 3-4 years in college, but maybe doesn't have all the measurables to be a top pick, but can develop. I don't want any that have any injury history either.

I agree. I think that the only place you will find one is in the draft. And even then, you may have to pay more than just some "mid round draft pick" that fans like to think.

Keep in mind that a 3rd rounder got us Chaz Green. Anyone happy with that?

Whoever they get, having the physical ability to play the left side has to be a high priority because right now, there's Tyron Smith and his poor injury history and .......... nothing.

 

[IrishAnto]

There are ifs on your part as well.......... such as thinking you can get him for a fairly decent contract, even paying just a little bit more to keep him. What's the number by the way? You willing to guarantee enough money to make him a Top 5 paid ILB, for example?

Further, Hitchens is not good enough that he's irreplaceable. Lee is irreplaceable. Hitchens is far from that. There are vet LBs out there that can do what he does for a lesser cost. I'd go look at Karlos Dansby, for example. Still plays a very solid LB and would likely be much cheaper than Hitchens at this point. See what happens with Z. Brown again or DeMario Davis.

You need to draft LBs anyway in this draft. It would be moronic to sign Hitchens and think, gee, we have LB fixed!

So now we've gone from top 10 to top 5 just like that.
I'd offer him a fair deal with a bit extra guaranteed to keep the annual salary down.
You suppose he won't take less but all those you've listed above will come here on the cheap and be as good?
Yes I'd draft a LB just not in the top three rounds and as I've already said it's not a deep draft at LB so the likelihood of getting somebodoy nearly as good gets longer.
At what point does the team get stronger?

 

[IrishAnto]

Hitchens is limited
I'm not paying him starter money for multiple years
I'd rather sign someone like Bowman and draft a lb in rds 2-4 or sign someone like Brown and make him my starter st MLB

Bowman isn't moving from the Bay area unless you pay him a shed load of money.

 

[Sydla]

So now we've gone from top 10 to top 5 just like that.
I'd offer him a fair deal with a bit extra guaranteed to keep the annual salary down.
You suppose he won't take less but all those you've listed above will come here on the cheap and be as good?
Yes I'd draft a LB just not in the top three rounds and as I've already said it's not a deep draft at LB so the likelihood of getting somebodoy nearly as good gets longer.
At what point does the team get stronger?

I said Top 5 because I want to see how far you are willing to go here to bring him back. You seem to be unsure of even where you'd go to pay him other than nebulous comments like you'd pay him a little extra.

And yes, some of the guys I mentioned would likely be cheaper, like a Karlos Dansby who is in his 30s now and likely won't command any big long term deals at this point in his career. And yes, he's as good as Hitchens, even at his age.

The fallacy in your last comment is this implied belief that Hitchens is vital to making this team stronger. I don't believe he is, especially if it's going to cost you a lot of money.

 

[Aven8]

I agree. I think that the only place you will find one is in the draft. And even then, you may have to pay more than just some "mid round draft pick" that fans like to think.

Keep in mind that a 3rd rounder got us Chaz Green. Anyone happy with that?

Whoever they get, having the physical ability to play the left side has to be a high priority because right now, there's Tyron Smith and his poor injury history and .......... nothing.

I'm not expecting a 6th rounder to come in and do the same. Chaz Green according to Gil Brandt was a steal in the 3rd, but he had all the injury history. My problem with him since he's been here is he doesn't seem to be in shape ever. He seems like a lazy player to me on top of the injuries. Now he's more famous than Alex Barron!

I don't want any projects either. I would prefer a really solid kid that has played 38-52 games in college, team captain etc from Ball St type place etc that has a future with work, and can potentially start.