We won't be players in FA again in my opinion

[Stash]

I'm not expecting a 6th rounder to come in and do the same. Chaz Green according to Gil Brandt was a steal in the 3rd, but he had all the injury history. My problem with him since he's been here is he doesn't seem to be in shape ever. He seems like a lazy player to me on top of the injuries. Now he's more famous than Alex Barron!

My issue with Green is this. He's soft. Physically and mentally. The physical part is easy to see, the guy is always hurt. While he has the physical measurable to play, he doesn't have the durability or toughness. And he's simply not a fighter, he's a quitter. When he's tested, he folds. And a player can have all of the measurables in the Witkowski, but if you don't have the grit, it diesnt work.

I don't want any projects either. I would prefer a really solid kid that has played 38-52 games in college, team captain etc from Ball St type place etc that has a future with work, and can potentially start.

With Smith's injury history, they can't afford to wait on any project. They might need the guy for week one.

 

[IrishAnto]

I said Top 5 because I want to see how far you are willing to go here to bring him back. You seem to be unsure of even where you'd go to pay him other than nebulous comments like you'd pay him a little extra.

And yes, some of the guys I mentioned would likely be cheaper, like a Karlos Dansby who is in his 30s now and likely won't command any big long term deals at this point in his career. And yes, he's as good as Hitchens, even at his age.

The fallacy in your last comment is this implied belief that Hitchens is vital to making this team stronger. I don't believe he is, especially if it's going to cost you a lot of money.

Again likely of which you've no proof.
And you know he'll be as good as Hitchens on this team how exactly?
And lastly how have our cheap free agents worked out exactly?
So is resigning Hitchens vital?
No but he's the second best LB on this team at the moment and keeping those sort of players is necessary if this team is to move forward.

 

[Hawkeye19]

Tell the Eagles, Patriots, and Jaguars that being big players in free agency doesn’t work out...

Tell the NYG and Wash that it does work lol

 

[Sydla]

Again likely of which you've no proof.
And you know he'll be as good as Hitchens on this team how exactly?
And lastly how have our cheap free agents worked out exactly?
So is resigning Hitchens vital?
No but he's the second best LB on this team at the moment and keeping those sort of players is necessary if this team is to move forward.

Except it's not that simple.

Maybe in a world where there is no salary cap.

 

[tm1119]

Tell the NYG and Wash that it does work lol

Giants spent last season and had 1 of the leagues best defenses that got them 11 wins and a trip to the playoffs. Their entire franchise fell apart this season like no one could see coming. Washington is 1 good example. But I know it's convenient for your argument to ignore the present and the fact that 3 out of the 4 teams in championship games spent big in free agency. Throwing cash at anybody like Daniel Snider is a bad idea, but when done with some brains free agency is an extremely effective way to turn a good team into a great 1...and that's the exact scenario we were in last year going into 2017 off season and our great front office went out and got Nolan Carroll and Stephen Paea. Hence the step back this season

 

[IrishAnto]

Except it's not that simple.

Maybe in a world where there is no salary cap.

True it’s not simple but good organisations find ways of keeping their best players and adding more good players.

The last 22 years would indicate we don’t belong to that club.

 

[Sydla]

True it’s not simple but good organisations find ways of keeping their best players and adding more good players.

The last 22 years would indicate we don’t belong to that club.

Anthony Hitchens isn't changing the course of that, at least not to the point where the Cowboys have to swallow a bad or even mediocre contract to keep him.

If Hitchens is one of our "best" players that we have to keep than we have a bigger problem than Hitchens.

 

[JustChip]

The point I've been trying to make all along is Martin and/or his agent knowing that the demand for him is going to be very high will not take a contract this year that is back end loaded and have to wait to be paid on salary based like the best guard in football and will instead play on the option year deal and next year wait for the offers that aren't back end loaded but with the same signing bonus. There is just too much money these days being offered by teams that have the cap space for players to have to accept back end loaded deals. Players know that when you are the best you expect to be paid like the best and that's not back ended contracts that they may or may not ever see the end of. I don't hope for it but he could end up with some chronic injury down the road that will limit his ability to see the end of this contract. It's happened before and players are aware of this.
.

You might be right. But, it seems to me that if they're adverse to a back-end loaded contract because of the risk of not seeing the full contract, why would they not be just as adverse to playing this year with only 9.3m assured? What happens if he has a Shazier moment? Signing an extension this year for the same total money and same guaranteed money over all 6 years mitigates that risk to Martin, shifting it to the Cowboys.

Now, if you're argument is that the market will be higher then and, instead of the 5/35/75 contract you proposed, he gets a 5/45/90 contract, that might be a risk he's willing to take. But he and his agent would be risking 35m for the 10m increase in guaranteed money. Everyone is different, but that doesn't seem like a good risk / reward to me. The age old "bird in hand" idea.

One other thing to think about, the trade-off for a back-loaded salary (non-guaranteed) component is the signing bonus. In effect, that makes it a front-loaded contract. But even if he and his agent said they'll only go for a constant salary contract, using your 5/35/75 contract, the additional cap hit in year 1 vs. the 9.3m rookie option is only 5m more. Not insignificant, but not a total cap buster.

 

[Nightman]

Anthony Hitchens isn't changing the course of that, at least not to the point where the Cowboys have to swallow a bad or even mediocre contract to keep him.

If Hitchens is one of our "best" players that we have to keep than we have a bigger problem than Hitchens.

I don't know how I missed this thread but it was pure gold

You did a great job with those DC refugees but you could see their monkeys weren't at their typewriters

If only we could cut ZMartin since he won't sign here for 5m maybe we could give that 9.3m to Hitchens instead so he can be the highest paid backup LB in the NFL

 

[Nightman]

You just keep telling yourself that and you'll keep believing it but numbers don't lie. In order for the Cowboys to sign Martin to the kind of contract you think, Martin would have to take less money than what he would be guaranteed for his option year which is forcing him to do a team friendly deal. With being an All Pro EVERY YEAR since becoming a pro he knows that he'll make bukoo bucks after the option year so why would he agree to take less money with Dallas for 2018 on an extension when he knows that loss pay from what the option year would have been will never be made up? That's throwing away money.
.

TRomo
TSmith
TFred
SLee
JWitten
OScan

all gave DAL a discount and worked with them throughout their contracts to help manage the cap

there is no reason ZMartin won't do the same but even a discount in 6/72m with 36m gtd

 

[KingintheNorth]

Free agency never, ever works.

 

[JustChip]

Free agency never, ever works.

I know your being facetious, but neither does FA always work. It's no different than the draft. There are hits and misses. The difference with FA vs. the draft is economics. Dallas couldn't have signed Campbell for what he signed for last year, or Olivier Vernon the year before.

Also, the Cowboys are active in FA, it's just for their own. E.g., they could let Lawrence walk this year and sign someone of perceived equal caliber, or they could sign Lawrence. Both are FA moves because Lawrence is an FA.

 

[IrishAnto]

Anthony Hitchens isn't changing the course of that, at least not to the point where the Cowboys have to swallow a bad or even mediocre contract to keep him.

If Hitchens is one of our "best" players that we have to keep than we have a bigger problem than Hitchens.

I think you’ll find he is and we do.

 

[Sydla]

I know your being facetious, but neither does FA always work. It's no different than the draft. There are hits and misses. The difference with FA vs. the draft is economics. Dallas couldn't have signed Campbell for what he signed for last year, or Olivier Vernon the year before.

Also, the Cowboys are active in FA, it's just for their own. E.g., they could let Lawrence walk this year and sign someone of perceived equal caliber, or they could sign Lawrence. Both are FA moves because Lawrence is an FA.

I guess this is the latest defense of the FO........... they are active in FA, just signing their own FAs.

Its a fairly disingenuous position to take IMO. It's like when someone above said we are active and successful in FA because of some of our rookie UDFA hits.

 

[conner01]

Let me be clear.......... I would like to have Hitchens back myself. But if I have to pay him $7MM a year for 3-4 years, that's cap insanity to me because 1) he's not that good 2) he may not even be a starter for you.

I just don't understand the Hitchens love where people are perfectly content handing him what would essentially be an "elite" level type ILB contract. $7MM a year? He'd be the 6th or 7th highest paid ILB in football. Yeah. No.

I agree
There is a price that is just too high and top 10 money is way too high

 

[Sydla]

I think you’ll find he is and we do.

Then if we have a bigger issue than Hitchens, there's no point in bending yourself over a barrel to bring him back. If he wants to come back on a fairly cheap deal, great. If he wants starting ILB money, he's not good enough to be paid that and the defense isn't an Anthony Hitchens at MLB away from being really good anyway.

 

[KingintheNorth]

I know your being facetious, but neither does FA always work. It's no different than the draft. There are hits and misses. The difference with FA vs. the draft is economics. Dallas couldn't have signed Campbell for what he signed for last year, or Olivier Vernon the year before.

Also, the Cowboys are active in FA, it's just for their own. E.g., they could let Lawrence walk this year and sign someone of perceived equal caliber, or they could sign Lawrence. Both are FA moves because Lawrence is an FA.

I'm not suggesting that we should have signed Campbell. I just hate this recent mentality around here that free agency never works, as well as the team's arrogance/incompetence in free agency the last few off-seasons.

Also, re-signing our own free agents is crucial but in essence, it's standing pat. We aren't getting better, we are maintaining. This team needs to get better and free agency is a vital factor in improving.

Philosophies and catchy slogans are for t-shirts. Get better however, whenever the opportunity presents itself.

 

[IrishAnto]

Then if we have a bigger issue than Hitchens, there's no point in bending yourself over a barrel to bring him back. If he wants to come back on a fairly cheap deal, great. If he wants starting ILB money, he's not good enough to be paid that and the defense isn't an Anthony Hitchens at MLB away from being really good anyway.

You have to start somewhere and Hitchens is a good place to start.

 

[Sydla]

You have to start somewhere and Hitchens is a good place to start.

Except he's not. Because he really isn't even who the organization views as their long term MLB - Jaylon Smith is. Now you may not agree with that, but the Cowboys didn't invest a 2nd round pick in Smith to be a backup and if you listen to the Jones' they sure believe Smith turned a corner and is a key member of their future.

The Hitchens love is mind boggling. He's a decent MLB. That's it.

I'll put it another way. If we needed a LB and he was an outside FA and we signed him for what you apparently want to give him, some wanting him back would lose their lunch. Because in reality, the fact he's ours has blinded some to the realities that he's just a decent LB, nothing beyond that.

 

[IrishAnto]

Except he's not. Because he really isn't even who the organization views as their long term MLB - Jaylon Smith is. Now you may not agree with that, but the Cowboys didn't invest a 2nd round pick in Smith to be a backup and if you listen to the Jones' they sure believe Smith turned a corner and is a key member of their future.

The Hitchens love is mind boggling. He's a decent MLB. That's it.

I'll put it another way. If we needed a LB and he was an outside FA and we signed him for what you apparently want to give him, some wanting him back would lose their lunch. Because in reality, the fact he's ours has blinded some to the realities that he's just a decent LB, nothing beyond that.

So he’s going to command a big contract from another team because he’s just decent?
How so?
If there are other LB’s available who are just as good but are cheaper then why will Hitchens get the big contract you seem to think he will?