We're not dinking and dunking

[fifaguy]

Bears, Commanders, and 49ers.

I'll get excited if this thing gets to 5-2.

After 4-12 last year I'm relatively excited already...

 

[percyhoward]

Not surprising, since QB rating rewards dink and dunk.

We're not dink and dunk. Here's every QB with at least 50 attempts, plus Brady from last year.

Throws less than 10 yards
(as a percentage of total attempts)
1 Palmer 51.0%
2 Fitzpatrick 58.4%
3 Winston 59.3%
4 Mariota 59.6%
5 Gabbert 62.2%
6 Rodgers 62.8%
7 Tannehill 63.0%
8 Rthlsbrgr 63.5%
9 Osweiler 64.4%
10 Carr 65.4%
11 Newton 65.4%
12 Bortles 66.3%
13 Ryan 66.4%
14 Wilson 68.4%
15 Keenum 68.6%
16 Prescott 68.7%
17 Manning 69.7%
18 Taylor 69.8%
19 Brissett 70.1%
20 Rivers 70.4%
21 Bradford 70.5%
22 Smith 70.8%
23 Luck 71.1%
24 Brady (2015) 72.2%
25 Flacco 71.8%
26 Brees 72.1%
27 Stafford 72.4%
28 Garoppolo 72.9%
29 Wentz 73.5%
30 Palmer 74.7%
31 Siemian 75.2%
32 Kessler 80.8%
33 Hoyer 81.4%

I updated Prescott's number because I had copied and pasted it from an earlier post that was from before the last game (duh). Playing without his #1 WR in the last game, he threw a ton of underneath stuff, which dropped him down around the middle of the league. But still nowhere near the bottom.

 

[conner01]

I could care less if we throw all one yard passes. As long as we keep the chains moving and end drives with 7 points, nothing else really matters

 

[conner01]

Believe it or not but the appropriate amount of INTs is not zero. Said another way the appropriate level of risk taking on offense is not zero.

Taking risk when you need too is fine. Taking risk just to be taking risk not so smart
Take what's there, throw in a few shots down the field is fine but worrying about how many passes over 20 yards is a waste of time. No reason to force things when you don't have to

 

[jday]

I see a lot of comments online about how the Cowboys offense isn't throwing the ball downfield, suggesting that it's a dink and dunk offense, and it's nonsense.

What's true: We're not throwing a ton of deep balls, so don't have as many 40+ and 20+ yard passing plays as the top half of the league.

What's true: Dak's 7.7 YPA is in the top 10 in the league amongst passers with 50+ attempts, and one long pass would push him top 5, as most of the guys in the top 10 are between 7.7-8.0.

What I think a lot of people are failing to understand is that the Cowboys running game is working so well, their 3rd down distance is the lowest in the league. When you're constantly facing 3rd and 2 and 3rd and 3, you throw a lot of intermediate passes to move the chains.

If the Cowboys can run the ball and be successful passing between 11-20 yards, move the chains, control the clock, and score TDs in the red zone then that's much better for the team than chucking 50+ yard bombs in the hopes that you get big plays.

Here's my issue with this debate: What's wrong with dink and dunk if it works? I ask, because that's basically what Peyton Manning was the last 3 years of his career. Anyone care to criticize him?

 

[percyhoward]

Interesting - it begs the question, how does he stack up on intermediate % throws?

This is from before last week's game.

Of league's top 20 rated passers with a minimum of 10 attempts on passes thrown 11-20 yards past line of scrimmage.

Prescott 18 of 24 307 yd 12.8 ypa 1 td 0 int 130.6
Wentz 13 of 19 304 yd 18.0 ypa 1 td 0 int 128.7
Manning 17 of 23 298 yd 13.0 ypa 2 td 2 int 108.5
Brees 13 of 27 241 yd 8.9 ypa 2 td 0 int 104.1
Luck 12 of 23 184 yd 8.0 ypa 3 td 1 int 100.4
Smith 12 of 23 218 yd 9.5 ypa 1 td 0 int 99.5
Tannehill 19 of 34 365 yd 10.7 ypa 2 td 2 int 88.5
Rivers 8 of 18 125 yd 6.9 ypa 1 td 0 int 86.6
Carr 7 of 19 145 yd 7.6 ypa 1 td 0 int 82.1
Dalton 12 of 22 262 yd 11.9 ypa 0 td 1 int 78.2
Wilson 9 of 19 163 yd 8.6 ypa 0 td 0 int 77.3
Taylor 6 of 14 130 yd 9.3 ypa 0 td 0 int 76.5
Siemian 11 of 17 181 yd 10.7 ypa 9 td 1 int 75.9
Ryan 11 of 24 181 yd 7.5 ypa 1 td 1 int 68.2
Rodgers 6 of 17 81 yd 4.8 ypa 1 td 1 int 46.4
Cousins 10 of 25 175 yd 7.00 ypa 1 td 2 int 44.6

 

[jrumann59]

I will sit and watch Brady and the Pats and the vast majority of his passes are dinks and dunks, hell that is how Welker, Amendola and Julian Edelman have made a living. I'm not concerned about Dak hitting the open man, it works.

Difference is everyone knows if you let Brady go deep all the time he will carve you up. Teams would rather let the pats Dink and Dunk in hopes it will keep the game close. While Gronk is their best receiver a deep threat he is not.

 

[jrumann59]

Here's my issue with this debate: What's wrong with dink and dunk if it works? I ask, because that's basically what Peyton Manning was the last 3 years of his career. Anyone care to criticize him?

Peyton even in his less then optimal condition could still sling it if need be. Dak has not shown that ability. Now I am not saying they should go all K-Gun but he does need to get those deep throws working otherwise running and the short passing game will get ugly.

 

[jrumann59]

Prescott throws fewer short passes than most of the league's top 10 rated passers.

Throws less than 10 yards
(as a percentage of total attempts)
Rthlsbrgr 63.5%
Carr 65.4%
Ryan 66.4%
Wilson 68.4%
Prescott 68.7%
Rivers 70.4%
Bradford 70.5%
Garoppolo 72.9%
Wentz 73.5%
Siemian 75.2%
Hoyer 81.4%

Stats without context can make any argument. NE tends to run a lot of screens to their slot guys. Carr also screens alot. Brown who the Steelers likes to get in space will throw it short to him to get his open field ability going. Wilson and Ryan are always short to intermediat guys. The only ones on that list he should be in comparison with would be Jimmy G, and Wentz. everyone else is in system that they have been in for 3-5 years short game is usually apart of the offense but the bomb is used also.

 

[percyhoward]

Stats without context can make any argument.

When half the league throws short more often than you do, it's safe to say you're not basing your offense on short throws.

 

[jrumann59]

When half the league throws short more often than you do, it's safe to say you're not basing your offense on short throws.

Most of those teams do not have a feared running attack except Pittsburgh and he was suspended for 3 weeks. Most of those teams I would be scared to get in a shoot out with, they dink and dunk because they choose to, they have the personnel to go all Run and Shoot. The Dallas Offense is not there yet with the kid at the helm.

 

[percyhoward]

The Dallas Offense is not there yet with the kid at the helm.

The Dallas Offense is 4th in points per drive, and Prescott is the league's 2nd-leading passer over the last three weeks.

 

[jrumann59]

The Dallas Offense is 4th in points per drive, and Prescott is the league's 2nd-leading passer over the last three weeks.

Ok awesome and that proves nothing at this point in the season. If it were week 15 and not week 5 I would be ecstatic.

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[jday]

Peyton even in his less then optimal condition could still sling it if need be. Dak has not shown that ability. Now I am not saying they should go all K-Gun but he does need to get those deep throws working otherwise running and the short passing game will get ugly.

Actually, he has demonstrated that ability. He just hasn't had to because he can win without it. When he can't, he will go deep again. But the kid has an arm. If you haven't seen it, you haven't been watching.

 

[jrumann59]

Actually, he has demonstrated that ability. He just hasn't had to because he can win without it. When he can't, he will go deep again. But the kid has an arm. If you haven't seen it, you haven't been watching.

I am aware he has an arm, I am also aware his mechanics on a deep ball are inconsistent and that is why his placements can be off. I think the staff and and himself are "worried" about the tighter windows down field and the staff is worried about shaking his confidence.

 

[percyhoward]

If it were week 15 and not week 5 I would be ecstatic.

I get the feeling that if we were 24th and not 4th, you'd be even more so.

 

[jrumann59]

I get the feeling that if we were 24th and not 4th, you'd be even more so.

And you would be wrong. I am happy the kid has been this good. I always worried we would end up in the Q-Car era of guess who the QB is this week. I hope this kid can sustain it. But I am not going all homerific and refuse to see the holes in his game in the teams gameplan going forward. I also am pretty sure there will be stretch where the wheels come off, it has happened to the greats and the ones that turned out not so great (RG3, Whats his face Former Eagle, Ram, now Chief)

 

[Yakuza Rich]

There's nothing wrong with dinking and dunking if you're scoring points and have an efficient offense. I think of the 2002 Oakland Raiders that had a very dynamic offense and didn't beat teams with the deep ball.

I think there's some concern about not beating teams deep with this offensive scheme. But the scheme has changed a bit with the RPO which is a lot of play action from the shotgun which requires quicker passes because the pass rushers are playing for the pass and the QB has to delay it a second to fake the handoff.




YR

 

[TheCount]

D&D can absolutely be effective in the right circumstances. The Patriots thrive off of it. But like others have said, if it is all you can do, then you'll run into some problems.

The problem with what was proved last week was that it only proved it for teams with poor offenses. It's unlikely this team is going to hold good teams, and good offenses to 3 points the remainder of the way after giving up an early 14 points. In those cases it's going to take 30+ points to win.

I hear you, but every team has games where they need 30+ to score. As long as it's not every game, I'm okay with our chances. Especially considering we won a whole 4 games last season.

 

[TheGodfather]

I see a lot of comments online about how the Cowboys offense isn't throwing the ball downfield, suggesting that it's a dink and dunk offense, and it's nonsense.

What's true: We're not throwing a ton of deep balls, so don't have as many 40+ and 20+ yard passing plays as the top half of the league.

What's true: Dak's 7.7 YPA is in the top 10 in the league amongst passers with 50+ attempts, and one long pass would push him top 5, as most of the guys in the top 10 are between 7.7-8.0.

What I think a lot of people are failing to understand is that the Cowboys running game is working so well, their 3rd down distance is the lowest in the league. When you're constantly facing 3rd and 2 and 3rd and 3, you throw a lot of intermediate passes to move the chains.

If the Cowboys can run the ball and be successful passing between 11-20 yards, move the chains, control the clock, and score TDs in the red zone then that's much better for the team than chucking 50+ yard bombs in the hopes that you get big plays.

Salient points but I want to say I like the 'dink' and 'dunk' offense. Keep the other teams D on the field. Demoralize them when you take three downs to make 12 yards but make those 12 90% of the time. Wear them out. Keep the other teams O off of the field so they can't garner any continuity. Then, when the safeties and corners start cheating up towards the line to stop that nonsense unleash a 20 to 30 yard pass and let em chase the receivers.

Go back and watch the San Fran game. By the 4th quarter the San Fran defense had the desire to stop the boys but you could tell by their body language that they were tired and defeated. That's the look I want to see on opposing teams in the 4th all year long.

Players today get demoralized much easier than the teams of the 70's, 80's, and 90's. Every now and then you get that one special player that never believes that the game is out of reach but they're as rare as an honest politician.