What are we elite at? Argument for a top flight RB

Junglist

Junglist

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bsheeern said:
We have an Elite O-line, Elite #1 WR, Elite QB, and Elite kicker.
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Dez was nowhere near elite last season, and before someone uses the foot injury, that's no excuse for the balls he dropped that were right in his chest.
 
bsheeern

bsheeern

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Junglist said:
Dez was nowhere near elite last season, and before someone uses the foot injury, that's no excuse for the balls he dropped that were right in his chest.
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While It's hard to argue with that, I would also say He is still an elite WR in this league.
 
Titleist

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jterrell said:
This is all based on assumptions.
1. You assume DMC is not a breakaway threat? Even though he clocked faster than EVERY RB in this draft in his 40 coming out... including Lamar Miller when he came out btw.
2. Having a back take 25 carries is not about breakaways. Even Murray in his epic 2014 when he did break a long run had to rest. A mainline back with breakaway speed is a very rare luxury and generally a tiny part of their game.
3. You assume the 2014 and 2015 offensive difference was rushing... and not the obvious passing aspect.
4. You assume any back in any draft can be counted on to be healthy, reliable, elite for any given period of time.

Reality:
1. Dallas had the 4th best rushing total in the league from DMC. That IS elite performance. 100 RBs in league and he had 4th best total. 96th percentile. Elite.
2. DMC averaged 4.6 yards per carry last year. Behind the same OL Randle averaged 4.1, Christine Michael averaged 3.4. So what DMC did was hardly all OL.
3. Dallas was even better in short yardage rushes in 2015 than it was 2014. BETTER.
4. In short the rushing game MORE than did it's part with zero help from the moribund passing game.

There are 6 on field coordinated aspects to a game: rush (off and def), pass (off and def), ST (off and def).
Dallas won 2 areas last year. Off rushing and ST offense(thanks Dan).
Arguing we need to win those areas by more is just plain foolish.
There simply are not 8 games worth if improvement from DMC to even Adrian Peterson. We might have won 7 games with AD here. But we'd have had 7m less of players around him so who knows.
Those 8 games are going to come from better play at QB/WR/DL/CB/S. All areas we were bottom 10 last year.
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Wayyy too much objectivity in your post. You should know by now that arm waving, assumptions, and generalizations are the way of the Zone.
 
bsheeern

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BraveHeartFan said:
He thinks the kicker is the only one elite out of that group is what it looks like to me. It appears he drew a line through the rest saying they're not elite.

I'm not surprised he did so with the QB. He's always hated Romo and he'd likely be sick to his stomach if Romo won the Cowboys a ring.
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Wow. Then I guess I'll have to tell SMH at his post.
Meaning Shake My Head. lol
 
jterrell

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The real irony is the back coming out Zeke Elliot most resembles is ... Darren McFadden.
He's a complete back with great blocking and few holes whose only knock is perhaps he doesn't break enough tackles.

McFadden 3 years in SEC: 4590 yards, 41 rushing TDs. 2nd in Heisman two years in a row.
Zeke: 3 years in Big 10 3961 yards, 43 rushing TDs. 8th in Heisman.

The Raiders took DMC 4th and proceeded to win jack squat.
Like virtually everyone else the last 25 years whose used a top 10 pick on a RB.
And now with the original on our roster, fans want us to choose the second coming at the same spot?

I really struggle with understanding where seemingly intelligent folks miss the complete obvious in an almost willful fashion.
 
Jarv

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plasticman said:
As much of a fan that I am of a dominant running game, how many elite RB's played a prominent role in helping their team win a Super Bowl in the 21st century?

Where was the elite RB for the Patriots, Giants, Broncos, Saints, Packers, and Steelers. Many of them had very capable running games but I would hardly call them elite.

How has the current elite runners like Chris Johnson, Adran Peterson, Jamaal Charles, and others lifted their teams to championships.

Its a nice component and it shouldnt be taken for granted if it happens but its true that it isnt a requirement. A team must have a QB, O-line, and diverse weapons and a good defense.
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O would say Jerome Bettis and Marshawn Lynch off the top of my head.
 
coult44

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It blows my mind that so many of you think Dallas is a SuperBowl contender with the exact same team as we had in 15', as long as Romo stays healthy. Y'all are kidding yourselves. First, Tony is not going to play more than 12 games ever again. Second, even if he does, he's a lot older, and has a lot of injuries to protect. He won't be the same ever again. With that being said, why do all guys think all of our players are better than any big the FA's discussed on this board. Every player that gets brought up, y'all have issues with, or We have better players than, or it's too much money. You think exactly like the Dallas FO. And unless y'all know something different than the rest of the world, they have been very bad for a very long time. Why wouldn't you want to change something that's not working.
 
percyhoward

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birdwells1 said:
I felt that we had a chance to add Lamar Miller, a 24 yo proven running back with low mileage who is the fastest running back ever out of the the University of Miami. I think that this addition would've made our running game elite and we could have done even better than we did in 2014 (barring injury) but we, so far, have chosen to settle for having a good running game.
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The average gain for 2014's "great" running game and 2015's "good" running game was the same. So you're saying that more attempts will make our running game great again. How do we get more attempts in 2016? Two ways.

1. More late leads
We had 50 plays with a 4th-quarter lead in 2015, and triple that number in 2014. Our rushing yardage will go up when we are once again leading late in games. Most yards and TD in the NFL come from passing, and Romo passing the ball was mainly how we built our leads. And passing the ball became easier with our commitment to run more often, even in the second half of the 2014 season when defenses stopped giving us the run, so we weren't running as well average-wise. The key was we just kept running.

2. Better results from the passing game after a failed running play
In the second half of 2014, Murray averaged 4.3 ypc on 1st & 10, which is about average. But we kept running on 1st down because we weren't risking anything. When our 1st-down play failed (gained between -2 and 2 yards) Romo had a perfect passer rating of 158.3 on 2nd and 8-12. Dallas led the NFL in conversions by the pass on 2nd and long, and ranked #2 on 3rd and 5+. Perfection is a pretty good insurance policy when the run isn't working. Murray's runs gained 2 yards or less 44% of the time in the second half of 2014.

In 2015, McFadden averaged 4.8 ypc on 1st & 10. His runs gained 2 yards or less 37% of the time. IOW, how well we ran wasn't the problem. The problem in 2015 was that we couldn't run all the time on 1st & 10 because we had no insurance policy if defenses started to play run on 1st down and put us into 2nd and long. Our passing game ranked 28th converting on 2nd and long, and 24th on 3rd and 5+. That's a long way from perfection.
 
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jterrell

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Jarv said:
O would say Jerome Bettis and Marshawn Lynch off the top of my head.
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Jerome Bettis won those titles with the Steelers where he was traded with a 3rd round pick for a 2nd and 4th. But it might also be fair to note the Steelers were in a Super Bowl with the back who proceeded Bettis as well, my buddy, Bam Morris.

Lynch likewise was traded but only for a 4th and following year's 5th round pick.

Lynch wasn't a top 10 pick, going 12th. He never played a playoff game for Buffalo who drafted him.

Bettis was taken 10th by the Rams but never won 8 games there or saw the playoffs. He was asked to move to fullback or be traded. He opted for the trade.

Again more examples of why DRAFTING A RB TOP 10 doesn't lead to wins. Though trading for them at 10 cents on the dollar works just fine.
 
ABQCOWBOY

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jterrell said:
Jerome Bettis won those titles with the Steelers where he was traded with a 3rd round pick for a 2nd and 4th. But it might also be fair to note the Steelers were in a Super Bowl with the back who proceeded Bettis as well, my buddy, Bam Morris.

Lynch likewise was traded but only for a 4th and following year's 5th round pick.

Lynch wasn't a top 10 pick, going 12th. He never played a playoff game for Buffalo who drafted him.

Bettis was taken 10th by the Rams but never won 8 games there or saw the playoffs. He was asked to move to fullback or be traded. He opted for the trade.

Again more examples of why DRAFTING A RB TOP 10 doesn't lead to wins. Though trading for them at 10 cents on the dollar works just fine.
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I am not a fan of taking a RB at 4. Trade down and get some value and then take a back, perhaps. I would say this, if AP played on a good Offensive team where you actually used him to win a championship rather then just to be the only Offensive threat would have had a very good chance to win a Championship IMO. The problem is that the cap is prohibitive with AP. You gotta pay him and that prevents you from putting the pieces around him. I do believe that you can win with a Great Back who is taken in the first round but it hasn't happened recently. I think we might see that come back again but not until more teams adopt a scheme that places more value on balance and less on passing. The NFL is too pass heavy and I understand why but I think that might be changing. I guess we'll see but at the end of the day, we have bigger needs IMO. We have to get some Defensive players and if that means trading down, OK. Zeke might be great but I don't think he helps us win a championship with the years we have left. JMO
 
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