What Cowboy fans dont realize...

[Way 'nuff]

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman

Whoops, my bad. you're right.

Also wanted to ask, who is that in your avatar?

 

[kingwhicker]

Whoops, my bad. you're right.

Also wanted to ask, who is that in your avatar?

His name is Butte (though some call him Junior, Sr.)- he looks like your typical high school athletic director, coach, principal.

 

[trickblue]

Maybe its just that we feel that a team dubbed with such a lofty moniker shouldn't also be well known for cocaine use and other devient behavior. But it's all good, you wear the nickname well and do America proud.

OK young fella... no malice intended here, but I'm gonna give you a little history lesson... a history lesson about your beloved skins. Instead of throwing the same old rhetoric around, I would suggest you seek out the own skeletons in your past history.

Let's start with your name "Commanders". Many Native Americans find it offensive.

Next, let's go with your former owner George Preston Marshall. Here is a little quip about him:

"We'll start signing Negroes," Washington Commanders owner George Preston Marshall once quipped, "when the Harlem Globetrotters start signing whites."

In 1961, the Commanders were the only team in professional football without a black player. In fact, in the 25-year history of the franchise, no black had ever played for George Marshall. Sam Lacy, the gifted black sportswriter for the Baltimore Afro-American, called the Commanders football's "lone wolf in lily-whiteism." Their owner was "the one operator in the whole structure of major-league sports who has openly flouted his distaste for tan athletes."
​

Now... let's look at some of your players and their brushes with the law. A couple of these players have played for both of us.

Sean Taylor – Several infractions
Dexter Manly – Possession of Drugs
Mike Sellers - DWI
John Riggins - PI
Timmy Smith – Drug Trafficing
Deion Sanders - Trespassing
Billy Kilmer – DWI
Kevin Ware – PI
George Stark - Drug Possession
Darrell Russell - Drugs
Kevin Ware - Public Intoxication
Lavernius Coles - Shoplifting, fraud
Jermaine Haley – DWI
Tony Peters - conspiring to sell 4 pounds of cocaine.
Fred Smoot - Lewd And Lascivious Behavior
Ozzie Clay - Fraud
Barry Wilburn - Robbery
Kenyatta Jones - Felony Assault
Dana Stubblefield – Assualted his wife
Marlene Cooke (wife of Jack Kent Cooke) – DWI
Ray McDonald – arrested for having sex with another man in a public park.

You also have two more of infamy:
Dave Kopay
Jerry Smith
​

If you aren't sure what their claim to fame is see Ray McDonald above...

Pretending that Dallas is the only team with players of questionable character is ludicrous. Every team has had players with problems. "Our felon is better than your felon" is not a viable excuse either.

 

[Way 'nuff]

OK young fella... no malice intended here, but I'm gonna give you a little history lesson... a history lesson about your beloved skins. Instead of throwing the same old rhetoric around, I would suggest you seek out the own skeletons in your past history.

Let's start with your name "Commanders". Many Native Americans find it offensive.

Next, let's go with your former owner George Preston Marshall. Here is a little quip about him:

"We'll start signing Negroes," Washington Commanders owner George Preston Marshall once quipped, "when the Harlem Globetrotters start signing whites."

In 1961, the Commanders were the only team in professional football without a black player. In fact, in the 25-year history of the franchise, no black had ever played for George Marshall. Sam Lacy, the gifted black sportswriter for the Baltimore Afro-American, called the Commanders football's "lone wolf in lily-whiteism." Their owner was "the one operator in the whole structure of major-league sports who has openly flouted his distaste for tan athletes."
​

Now... let's look at some of your players and their brushes with the law. A couple of these players have played for both of us.

Sean Taylor – Several infractions
Dexter Manly – Possession of Drugs
Mike Sellers - DWI
John Riggins - PI
Timmy Smith – Drug Trafficing
Deion Sanders - Trespassing
Billy Kilmer – DWI
Kevin Ware – PI
George Stark - Drug Possession
Darrell Russell - Drugs
Kevin Ware - Public Intoxication
Lavernius Coles - Shoplifting, fraud
Jermaine Haley – DWI
Tony Peters - conspiring to sell 4 pounds of cocaine.
Fred Smoot - Lewd And Lascivious Behavior
Ozzie Clay - Fraud
Barry Wilburn - Robbery
Kenyatta Jones - Felony Assault
Dana Stubblefield – Assualted his wife
Marlene Cooke (wife of Jack Kent Cooke) – DWI
Ray McDonald – arrested for having sex with another man in a public park.

You also have two more of infamy:
Dave Kopay
Jerry Smith
​

If you aren't sure what their claim to fame is see Ray McDonald above...

Pretending that Dallas is the only team with players of questionable character is ludicrous. Every team has had players with problems. "Our felon is better than your felon" is not a viable excuse either.

K, first of all, you're bringing peoples sexual preferences to the table, which speaks volumes. Do you feel better about yourself lumping gay people with drug addicts and felons?

I'm not going to bring into the equation that a fair amount of the players you listed weren't affiliated with the team at the time of their run ins with the law. While I see where you're coming from, I'm pretty sure all the players I listed had their run ins while actually representing the Cowboys. In other words, I don't care that Fred Smoot got caught for lewd behavior while representing the Vikings. He's not embarrasing the Commanders franchise.

Ah, yes, the Commanders name. http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040925-121238-9407r.htm Not to demean the Native Americans that DO find it to be an insulting name, but the people that make the most fuss about this name are limousine liberals and college professors. White guilt.

As for George Preston Marshall...indefensible. Not gonna try to defend him.

 

[trickblue]

K, first of all, you're bringing peoples sexual preferences to the table, which speaks volumes. Do you feel better about yourself lumping gay people with drug addicts and felons?

I'm not going to bring into the equation that a fair amount of the players you listed weren't affiliated with the team at the time of their run ins with the law. While I see where you're coming from, I'm pretty sure all the players I listed had their run ins while actually representing the Cowboys. In other words, I don't care that Fred Smoot got caught for lewd behavior while representing the Vikings. He's not embarrasing the Commanders franchise.

Ah, yes, the Commanders name. http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040925-121238-9407r.htm Not to demean the Native Americans that DO find it to be an insulting name, but the people that make the most fuss about this name are limousine liberals and college professors. White guilt.

As for George Preston Marshall...indefensible. Not gonna try to defend him.

First of all... one of those with the other sexual preference was arrested... the reason they are brought forth is that some of your beloved fellow fans love to come over here and call us "Brokeback Cowboys"... don't take the high road and pretend you haven't heard it on extremeskins and other places. Now you want to circumvent the issue and try to sit in a burgundy and gold glass house on the hill judging the intent of my reference...

Yes, I do know the history of your name, personally I DON'T find it offensive given the context, but it nonetheless IS an issue with many...

You and your fellow cronie fans have gone on for years about the Cowboys and problems with their players... lumping in those with mental illness in the mix (Alonzo Spellman, Dimitrius Underwood) as well as those that got in trouble after they were with the Cowboys.

YOU are the one that brought up the subject and you challenged the very fabric that our team was founded on, yet deny your own history which was founded in racism and hatred. You don't have to condone it, but you can't deny it.

 

[Way 'nuff]

First of all... one of those with the other sexual preference was arrested... the reason they are brought forth is that some of your beloved fellow fans love to come over here and call us "Brokeback Cowboys"... don't take the high road and pretend you haven't heard it on extremeskins and other places. Now you want to circumvent the issue and try to sit in a burgundy and gold glass house on the hill judging the intent of my reference...

Yes, I do know the history of your name, personally I DON'T find it offensive given the context, but it nonetheless IS an issue with many...

You and your fellow cronie fans have gone on for years about the Cowboys and problems with their players... lumping in those with mental illness in the mix (Alonzo Spellman, Dimitrius Underwood) as well as those that got in trouble after they were with the Cowboys.

YOU are the one that brought up the subject and you challenged the very fabric that our team was founded on, yet deny your own history which was founded in racism and hatred. You don't have to condone it, but you can't deny it.

I've heard the Brokeback Cowboy thing, personally I think it's a pretty dumb attempt at humor. It's not that funny.

Anyway, I'll let you win, this is your board. Done and done.

EDIT: I will say, its not just Commanders fans making Cowboy jokes. Also, does North Dallas Forty ring a bell?

 

[kingwhicker]

"I wish I knew how to quit you?"

 

[Way 'nuff]

"I wish I knew how to quit you?"

Isn't that what Keyshawn is saying to Parcells?

I keed I keed.

 

[trickblue]

I've heard the Brokeback Cowboy thing, personally I think it's a pretty dumb attempt at humor. It's not that funny.

Anyway, I'll let you win, this is your board. Done and done.

EDIT: I will say, its not just Commanders fans making Cowboy jokes. Also, does North Dallas Forty ring a bell?

I'm not trying to "win" anything...

The fact of the matter is that no one wins when players for our teams get into trouble with the law. I was merely pointing out that we ALL have that problem, and probably to a greater extent than we all know.

The thing that irritates us is that when a skins fan is backed into a corner, they always go that route, like it somehow invalidates our SB wins. Does the fact that 2 out of 3 of your Lombardi's came in strike-shortened years invalidate yours?

As for Peter Gent (the author of North Dallas 40), that book has highly sensationalized and again, are you going to pretend none of your players in that era did similar things? Do you think Don Meredith had anything on Sonny Jurgenson or Billy Kilmer?

I will be honest. Commander fans cast more stones about the impurity of other teams more than any other team I know. It is why Cowboy fans get defensive when you come around. You constantly acuse us of being bandwagon fans, which is also a joke. You regulalry have less than 10% of your membership logged in at ES while we regulalry have almost half. Tell me who the bandwagon fans are? You call us cowboys, Cryboys, cowboys Brokeback and many other names. Has one person in this thread called you Foreskins? Have they?

You act surprised when you are met with opposition when the very tone of your thread is that "You guys are wrong again, idiots"...

The haughty attitude that your fans project is hardly earned by your past record and accomplishments in regard to ours...

I can assure you, you guys are treated MUCH better over here than we are over there as a whole.

 

[Way 'nuff]

I'm not trying to "win" anything...

The fact of the matter is that no one wins when players for our teams get into trouble with the law. I was merely pointing out that we ALL have that problem, and probably to a greater extent than we all know.

The thing that irritates us is that when a skins fan is backed into a corner, they always go that route, like it somehow invalidates our SB wins. Does the fact that 2 out of 3 of your Lombardi's came in strike-shortened years invalidate yours?

As for Peter Gent (the author of North Dallas 40), that book has highly sensationalized and again, are you going to pretend none of your players in that era did similar things? Do you think Don Meredith had anything on Sonny Jurgenson or Billy Kilmer?

I will be honest. Commander fans cast more stones about the impurity of other teams more than any other team I know. It is why Cowboy fans get defensive when you come around. You constantly acuse us of being bandwagon fans, which is also a joke. You regulalry have less than 10% of your membership logged in at ES while we regulalry have almost half. Tell me who the bandwagon fans are? You call us cowboys, Cryboys, cowboys Brokeback and many other names. Has one person in this thread called you Foreskins? Have they?

You act surprised when you are met with opposition when the very tone of your thread is that "You guys are wrong again, idiots"...

The haughty attitude that your fans project is hardly earned by your past record and accomplishments in regard to ours...

I can assure you, you guys are treated MUCH better over here than we are over there as a whole.

Ah, finally. Good decent conversation without any namecalling.

First of all I'm not a big time ES member. I wish people would stop automatically assuming that if you're a Commanders fan, you're part of ES. I've been on there, posted a few times, but it's not as good as it used to be, before the merge. It used to be a lot like this site, a good group of core football fans having good discussions. Now, I look around and don't recognize anyone anymore. Oh well.

And, yeah, I've been called Ratskins, Foreskins or something equally as clever as Cowpoke or Brokeback like that here, but whatever, it's in good fun.

I don't like bringing up the past, but when people bring up Sean Taylor and act like he's the baddest most thuggish **-er around....A case of the pot calling the kettle black, no? I'll understand if the conversation is about criminal pasts of football players but it's dumb*** comments out of leftfield like "Yeah,your season last year was a fluke and this is why....and, oh yeah, your safteys going to Jail, hahaha!" that chaps my ***. Really, how old are we here?

But, being the irritable bastid I am, I'll fight back. So, my apologies for dragging out the criminal history of the Cowboys.

I'm not saying that Commanders players didn't do anything like that in that era, but there's a reason it isn't "Southeast DC Forty." Here's all I want you to admit: That while most teams have had players that have run ins with the law, Dallas has had more than anyone and therefore are known for it. The stats don't lie. Thats not me being a Commanders fan trying to attack you, thats just me trying to get you to admit to facts.

I'm not accusing anyone here of being a bandwagoning fan. IMO, if you're taking the time to post on a fanboard, you're not a bandwagoner. I will accuse others who used to be Cowboys fans when you were winning superbowls and girls who "like the cowboys because Aikman was hot" and can't name 3 people on the current roster, bandwagoners. Is that not fair?

 

[trickblue]

Ah, finally. Good decent conversation without any namecalling.

You will find I rarely take part in namecalling or one-upping... what I do do is defend with integrity and facts what I know to be true...

I don't like bringing up the past, but when people bring up Sean Taylor and act like he's the baddest most thuggish **-er around....A case of the pot calling the kettle black, no? I'll understand if the conversation is about criminal pasts of football players but it's dumb*** comments out of leftfield like "Yeah,your season last year was a fluke and this is why....and, oh yeah, your safteys going to Jail, hahaha!" that chaps my ***. Really, how old are we here?

But you did bring up the past...

I will NOT admit that the Cowboys have more problems than any other teams, because it simply is not true...

I once got into a peeing match with another skins fan over the same thing and when the votes were totalled, we had one more player...

It is a weak argument and not even valid. Again, I ask you if 2 of your Lomabardi's are tainted by strike-shortened years?

But, being the irritable bastid I am, I'll fight back. So, my apologies for dragging out the criminal history of the Cowboys.

I'm not saying that Commanders players didn't do anything like that in that era, but there's a reason it isn't "Southeast DC Forty." Here's all I want you to admit: That while most teams have had players that have run ins with the law, Dallas has had more than anyone and therefore are known for it. The stats don't lie. Thats not me being a Commanders fan trying to attack you, thats just me trying to get you to admit to facts.

The reason there is a North Dallas Forty is because Peter Gent played for this team and wrote a sensationalized account. The reason it is so popular was because the team itself was popular. Again, Dave Kopay wrote his own book. Is it a reflection on your team? Do you think it would not be sensationalized if it was put in movie form? Do you believe all movies to be true? Do you believe works of non-fiction contain no embellishments for sensationalism?

I'm not accusing anyone here of being a bandwagoning fan. IMO, if you're taking the time to post on a fanboard, you're not a bandwagoner. I will accuse others who used to be Cowboys fans when you were winning superbowls and girls who "like the cowboys because Aikman was hot" and can't name 3 people on the current roster, bandwagoners. Is that not fair?

Again... it is your experience... I regularly school Commander fans I know on their own team history...

Every year the SB winner has fans all over the country wearing their jersey "yeah... my Patriots won it all"... the same idiots are wearing Stealers jerseys this year and saying "My boys... Steelers... WOOP"... Next year they will be wearing Cowboy jerseys... "America's Team... yeeaahhh baby"...

If you want the honest truth, it is a societal issue... young people today don't stick with one team as they always want to be associated with a winner. That is not life. The reality is that rooting for one team life-long gives a good perspective on life and how it will be. Sometimes you lose, sometimes you win. There will be good times and bad times. There will be highs and lows. There will be championships for some and not for others. Perseverance pays off, hard work pays off. You can't change teams every year and succeed in life.

 

[Way 'nuff]

I agree, the argument is childish, but whatever. I don't want to have to bring up the past until someone brings up ST or Dexter Manley or something. Why does it even enter conversation? Both teams have had issues with it in the past, does it warrant mentioning when having civil conversations about the teams?

And no, the trophies aren't tainted by the strike.

While Peter Gent played for Dallas, he didn't HAVE to rename the team in the book after Dallas. I'm sure he did it for a number of reasons, probably to make the team sound legit, most of all. Regardless, the stigma that Dallas has had a bunch of troublemakers might only be surpassed by the Raiders. Why does this stigma exist? How come the Chargers and the Lions don't have the same reputation as these two teams?

Good take on the social issue, I never thought of it that way before.