What do you think about the Sam Williams pick

DanA said:
Who was the other DE with 4.4 speed at 260lbs, 33.5” arms with 15 TFL’s and 12.5 sacks?
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I would’ve taken Jackson or Bonnito over him with zero hesitation.

Your posts are well written, I know you know better than to evaluate a player by their 40 time and how many sacks they had.
 
cnuball21 said:
I would’ve taken Jackson or Bonnito over him with zero hesitation.

Your posts are well written, I know you know better than to evaluate a player by their 40 time and how many sacks they had.
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Not sure I saw Bonnitto punk Charles Cross (or anybody) like Sam Williams did and it’s pretty clear that Bonnitto doesn’t have the length Dan Quinn covets. I respect your opinion, but I think in this case we differ on what we believe Dallas are looking for.

Drake Jackson is a better fit but I think Williams’ combine speed translates on the field and you don’t see that rare get off as much with Jackson. Personally, I can see why Williams was the last good edge rusher in their eyes and needed to be taken. He’s got to refine his hand use and pass rush moves but he fits exactly what the Cowbiys are looking for.
 
DanA said:
Not sure I saw Bonnitto punk Charles Cross (or anybody) like Sam Williams did and it’s pretty clear that Bonnitto doesn’t have the length Dan Quinn covets. I respect your opinion, but I think in this case we differ on what we believe Dallas are looking for.

Drake Jackson is a better fit but I think Williams’ combine speed translates on the field and you don’t see that rare get off as much with Jackson. Personally, I can see why Williams was the last good edge rusher in their eyes and needed to be taken. He’s got to refine his hand use and pass rush moves but he fits exactly what the Cowbiys are looking for.
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Bonnito’s pass rush win rate since 2020 is 27% and is the highest in FBS so he’s been doing it longer and more consistently than Williams. Fair if they don’t see a scheme fit but gosh that is just foolish.

I think they said a bunch of nonsense about Watt not being a scheme fit when we took Taco and we know how that turned out.
 
CalPolyTechnique said:
I’m happy with this pick too.

Taking an edge is almost always advisable. I don’t think this impacts Micah negatively at all. We need pass rushers. Point blank. And, no, I don’t think Chauncey Gholston is a quality pass rusher. Basham is fine as a rotational guy.

There is some stiffness to his game but you cannot deny his production.

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Thanks for posting.

So, backing out the sacks, Williams had 10 career TFLs in the run game. Not bad for a guy being asked to play 34 DE at 260 lbs. This is supposed to be a big weakness in his game, but compare those numbers to a guy like Ojabo, who really does give you nothing in the run game. My guess is if you put this guy in the right alignments he'll be a game wrecker both in the pass and the run game.
 
cnuball21 said:
Bonnito’s pass rush win rate since 2020 is 27% and is the highest in FBS so he’s been doing it longer and more consistently than Williams. Fair if they don’t see a scheme fit but gosh that is just foolish.

I think they said a bunch of nonsense about Watt not being a scheme fit when we took Taco and we know how that turned out.
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Dan Quinn didn’t select Taco and I don’t believe he would have. TJ Watt was the better athlete and has the requisite length, 3-cone and game intelligence that I think Quinn would want.

And how do you even determine win rate the way Oklahoma defense plays? All they run is slants/stunts and that makes the evaluation very hard in my opinion. Even harder still is making a statistics comparison because with how they play, it's never apples to apples.
 
cnuball21 said:
I would’ve taken Jackson or Bonnito over him with zero hesitation.

Your posts are well written, I know you know better than to evaluate a player by their 40 time and how many sacks they had.
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We're Jackson and/or Bonnito even available at 56?
 
DanA said:
Dan Quinn didn’t select Taco and I don’t believe he would have. TJ Watt was the better athlete and has the requisite length, 3-cone and game intelligence that I think Quinn would want.

And how do you even determine win rate the way Oklahoma defense plays? All they run is slants/stunts and that makes the evaluation very hard in my opinion. Even harder still is making a statistics comparison because with how they play, it's never apples to apples.
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I wasn’t meaning to single Quinn out - just the organization as a whole.

And of course it’s not apples to apples, but sacks aren’t the end all be all. There are so many stats / data out there that can go into the eval Injust referenced one for Bonnito that is really impressive.
 
cnuball21 said:
Yes, both were available and were picked shorty after we did.
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Well it sounds like a face off cnuball21 v McClay.
Though the reason Quinn went through drills with Williams is that he may have needed convincing... well the pick's in.
 
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CowboyoWales said:
Well it sounds like a face off cnuball21 v McClay.
Though the reason Quinn went through drills with Williams is that he may have needed convincing... well the pick's in.
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Pushing my opinion of his skills aside, we drafted another player super early with off the field issues which is just insane to me.
 
He's got the production, 12.5 sacks and 15 TFL. An upgrade to bonehead Randy and we get him on a rookie contract. He was ranked 45th overall and adding to that positional value push we got great value with the pick.
 
cnuball21 said:
I wasn’t meaning to single Quinn out - just the organization as a whole.

And of course it’s not apples to apples, but sacks aren’t the end all be all. There are so many stats / data out there that can go into the eval Injust referenced one for Bonnito that is really impressive.
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I suppose my point is that (rightly or wrongly) the coaches have a big say in how this organization drafts. So when the coaches change, how we draft changes. And I agree with you, scheme isn't everything and there should be more too it than that, but all things being equal, Quinn is going to draft the quicker, longer player for the D-line and push that guy up the board compared to others that don't have those traits.

From what I've seen, Quinn values the ability to hand fight, and being able to win in a variety of ways. I could see Marinelli going for Bonnitto with his ability to stunt and get up the field, but Quinn doesn't play the same single gap scheme.
 
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cnuball21 said:
Pushing my opinion of his skills aside, we drafted another player super early with off the field issues which is just insane to me.
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Pushing your football opinion...but maintaining your moral superiority.

Let the law deal with criminal and civil issues and McClay and Quinn deal with his professional development.
 
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Teague31 said:
Love it. Zero chance he would make it till 88 so I’m okay taking him at 56. I trust DQ to get the best out of him.
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Yep and as with Smith, we are adamant that our board's correct. As we've been told this is a crapshoot draft and like the way we are firm on our assessments.
 
He is a perfect pet project for Dan Quinn. Has the potential upside, just needs to work on his technique.
 
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CowboyoWales said:
Pushing your football opinion...but maintaining your moral superiority.

Let the law deal with criminal and civil issues and McClay and Quinn deal with his professional development.
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Of course, I bring it up b/c we have a history of drafting players with off the field questions early and a majority of the time it has not worked out.
 
Most times I end up liking a player, after initially not liking a pick. It's the opposite with Williams. I love the athletic skill and production, but he's pretty raw, and a lot of his sacks came after the QB ran around for a bit. He doesn't appear to have any moves beyond his speed.

I still like the pick, because we needed a pass rusher, and I assume they believe Williams can turn into a full time DE in time, and contribute as an edge rusher early. But now I fear he may not be as impactful year one as we hope/want/need. A little concerned about immediate impact from our first two picks, who are both so raw
 
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