What Does It Take To Have A Good Offensive Line??!!

[Natedawg44]

sorry it was misquoted here
http://www.onnidan.com/bcsp/938/stry9381.htm
I couldn't remember

 

[Juke99]

NYJ, Dallas and Houston clearly had the 3 worst lines and there is no close 4th.

All 3 were bottom 6 rushing yardage per attempt as well as in sacks allowed. Minny allowed sacks for instance but was middle of the pack in rushing yards per attempt so they could do something, lol. Arizona couldn't run block a lick but they had decent pass blockers.

Again back to the nonsensical we need to jettison Bledsoe to block better argument that just doesnt improve our run blocking where we simply miss blocks. Since we completely miss rush ends on a regular basis I have a hard time laying many sacks at Bledsoe's feet as well. He doesn't help his own cause much to be sure but getting met at the 5 step drop point by an end is NOT his fault and that happened with much frequency the second half of the year. The sack total went wayyyy up after 1 game of not having Flo. That is pretty logically not gonna be Bledsoe's fault.

...but I guess folks can believe whatever helps them sleep at night even if it is completely illogical.

Uh..."nonsensical"?



So, 'splain to me Lucy...why have Bledsoe's sack totals been very high...and for the most part getting worse as he got older, ie, less mobile...

Here ya go...sack totals....16/22/23/30/30/36/55/45/54/49/37/49

My point is...With regard to an O-Line, Bledsoe will make always make a line's pass protection look worse than it is...how can that even be argued? He's the least mobile QB in the game.

And as an aside, I happen to think he did a decent job this year. So, I'm not bashing the guy.

But his lack of mobility makes it IMPERATIVE that we spend money to develop an excellent pass blocking O-line....even if it means playing guys who are less talented at run blocking.

This line stinks...all ways round....but Bledsoe is always going to be prone to taking alot of sacks...it can't be that in all those stats cited above that it was his offensive line's fault every time.

 

[big dog cowboy]

What must we do to turn this trend around?

You need two things. Players (we are lacking, should improve this off season) and coaching (we are practically the laughingstock of the league) it's that simple. I have faith we upgrade the players but still worry about the coaching.

 

[dmq]

Reallly, besides Offensive Line, we are a very good team. Lets hope the time dedicated to it in the offseason will be good enough. Start w/ the firing of our offensive line coach.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

It's really quite simple. Pick a scheme, any scheme. Get a coach who is familiar with that scheme. Get players that fit said scheme, jettison those that don't.


Adams is in the top five in the league as far as physical talent, Rivera excelled until he came to Dallas, Johnson would be excelling on a team that relied on lineman mobility.


These player have talent, it's just not being used.


If Parcells would have picked what he wanted to do his first year, this problem would be solved by now. Unfortunately, there's almost no way to fix it in just one year.

I really think that Dallas wants to go to a more finesse type line but the albatross that is Larry Allen prevented it. Of course all the teams that have used the smaller, quicker lineman have mobile QBs because they do get overpowered on occasion so Bledsoe doesn't really fit that line of thinking.

I guess in a sense I'm confused by the direction that Parcells wanted to go and it still looks like a rudderless ship for the forseeable future.

 

[Juke99]

It's really quite simple. Pick a scheme, any scheme. Get a coach who is familiar with that scheme. Get players that fit said scheme, jettison those that don't.


Adams is in the top five in the league as far as physical talent, Rivera excelled until he came to Dallas, Johnson would be excelling on a team that relied on lineman mobility.


These player have talent, it's just not be used.

Well said...can you put two guys next to eachother who are more different than Allen and Johnson? Trade Johnson to Denver and he'd become a good player.

The line has zero personality..

 

[Sabu1]

Well said...can you put two guys next to eachother who are more different than Allen and Johnson? Trade Johnson to Denver and he'd become a good player.

The line has zero personality..

This is exactly the problem. It's a mish mash unit of differing styles. Parcells needs to make up his mind as to what kind of blocking scheme to use and go get the personnel to execute it. I do think Parcells would like to have a more mobile OL with versatility to run screens. I think one hinderance to all this has been the Larry Allen situation. His contract has been such that it has been almost impossible to get rid of him and his play has been progressively getting worse year by year. I'm to the point where it's time to take the cap hit and move on with a replacement. At least the next guy will be cheaper and replaceable.

 

[wileedog]

It's really quite simple. Pick a scheme, any scheme. Get a coach who is familiar with that scheme. Get players that fit said scheme, jettison those that don't.


Adams is in the top five in the league as far as physical talent, Rivera excelled until he came to Dallas, Johnson would be excelling on a team that relied on lineman mobility.


These player have talent, it's just not being used.


If Parcells would have picked what he wanted to do his first year, this problem would be solved by now. Unfortunately, there's almost no way to fix it in just one year.

I really think that Dallas wants to go to a more finesse type line but the albatross that is Larry Allen prevented it. Of course all the teams that have used the smaller, quicker lineman have mobile QBs because they do get overpowered on occasion so Bledsoe doesn't really fit that line of thinking.

I guess in a sense I'm confused by the direction that Parcells wanted to go and it still looks like a rudderless ship for the forseeable future.

Very good post and I agree.

I think in general Parcells prefers smart, athletic lineman. Johnson, Rogers and Peterman were all considered such. Rivera too. Pettiti not so much, but he was supposed to be a 6th round project, although him becoming an ad hoc starter has contributed to the chaos.

I wonder how much the line has suffered by being held 'hostage' by having guys like Flo, Allen and Gurode, not to mention this year Pettiti. who don't fit that mold.

And no, that's not an excuse for Bill, he's the one who decided to give Flo his big extension, and he has had ample reason and opportunity to let Gurode go.

Its really been a mishmosh for years.

 

[ghst187]

a good OL coach, a good C that doesn't get overpowered and can make line calls,
a RT, and probably a starting G.
Also, a offensive gameplan that gets the ball downfield early to open things up.

 

[Zman5]

Good blocking is part talent, part coaching, and part ATTITUDE. You can be less physically gifted but with good coaching and Biadasz attittude you can become a great blocker.

What bother me about our OL is I saw alot of our linemen just stand around after their initial block. What they should have been doing was looking for someone else to whack after they flattened their first guy.

 

[Clove]

Its a system that makes a Oline work. For example LA, Adams or Petitte could not zone block, counter tray, or sweep block.

Our problem is two fold: power blocking Oline with run in space back. Statue QB who will hold on to the ball with a Oline that is good for a 5 step release offense.

The offense had the more experience of the team but the most protected.

Not to mention receivers that can't seperate on a normal basis.

 

[MapleLeaf]

Good blocking is part talent, part coaching, and part ATTITUDE. You can be less physically gifted but with good coaching and Biadasz attittude you can become a great blocker.

What bother me about our OL is I saw alot of our linemen just stand around after their initial block. What they should have been doing was looking for someone else to whack after they flattened their first guy.

...referring to Larry Allen who spent alot of time looking for someone to block. DC started to figure out if you stunted away from LA he wouldn't take the initiative to identify where the pressure was coming from and move his block in that direction.

His weakness now is that he reacts poorly in space. Quite a difference from when he first came to Dallas and developed a reputation as the best pulling guard and drove multiple blocks to the second level.

There was a time when Allen could be relied upon to blow his initial assignment off the line and get to the second level to blow up one or more linebackers or safeties/corners.

His increased upper body bulk, poor fitness level and weak legs have robbed him of that ability.

At a lower cap he's serviceable for another year, but at some time he needs to move on.

As for those on the board who argue about the attention he is getting considering they feel he was the best of the line, that type of thinking will result in continued years of poor line play.

We need to seriously improve the line, not only for a Bledsoe, but if we even want to seriously challenge for future SuperBowls. The easiest way to win games is to control the lines.

 

[Zman5]

...referring to Larry Allen who spent alot of time looking for someone to block. DC started to figure out if you stunted away from LA he wouldn't take the initiative to identify where the pressure was coming from and move his block in that direction.

His weakness now is that he reacts poorly in space. Quite a difference from when he first came to Dallas and developed a reputation as the best pulling guard and drove multiple blocks to the second level.

There was a time when Allen could be relied upon to blow his initial assignment off the line and get to the second level to blow up one or more linebackers or safeties/corners.

His increased upper body bulk, poor fitness level and weak legs have robbed him of that ability.

At a lower cap he's serviceable for another year, but at some time he needs to move on.

As for those on the board who argue about the attention he is getting considering they feel he was the best of the line, that type of thinking will result in continued years of poor line play.

We need to seriously improve the line, not only for a Bledsoe, but if we even want to seriously challenge for future SuperBowls. The easiest way to win games is to control the lines.

LA was definately one that did alot of looking. I don't think his problem is due to weak legs. The man can squat 900 lbs. I think it has more to do with having slow foot and having bad balance.

He should go work out with Sumo wrestlers this offseason. Those dudes are as big as LA but they are one of the most agile atheletes in the world. And they are excellent at using leverage and balance.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Its a system that makes a Oline work. For example LA, Adams or Petitte could not zone block, counter tray, or sweep block.

Our problem is two fold: power blocking Oline with run in space back. Statue QB who will hold on to the ball with a Oline that is good for a 5 step release offense.

The offense had the more experience of the team but the most protected.

I am glad you pointed that out. Also besides holding on to ball too long he DOES NOT protect it. Cant blame that on O-line. At some point teams know he will hold it too long and doesnt protect the ball. That is an increased burden on O-Linemen.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

What Does It Take To Have A Good Offensive Line??!!

simple, a keen eye for talent

look at some of these olineman, you don't need to have all 5 positions on the Oline be high-priced and/or high-round picks, just need to be able to spot a good one, and develop them properly, and for some reason, Parcells hasn't been up to the task, I don't know what's up with that...

 

[braw]

What Does It Take To Have A Good Offensive Line??!!

simple, a keen eye for talent

look at some of these olineman, you don't need to have all 5 positions on the Oline be high-priced and/or high-round picks, just need to be able to spot a good one, and develop them properly, and for some reason, Parcells hasn't been up to the task, I don't know what's up with that...

To lead the league in Time of Possion and have a bad Oline does not make sense. Avg 3.6 per rush and lead TOP does not add up. That means you also lead the league in 4 and 1. the offense just looked lazy.

Protecting the Tackles with a TE or RB made the oline less confident( more problems). Very predictable offense allowed defenses to scheme to our weakness. You had max protection with TE and RB with 1 or 2 WR out in routes. Double Glenn and cover the other with a Lb in front and CB in back. Sack the slow QB. There is the West coast offense that Phil, Seatle, and Geenbay run then you have spread out attack like Cinn, the colts and then you have Norv, Rams, Chiefs time based patterns. What would you call the Cowboys offense run by gurus like Payton and Parcells.

Look at Joe Gibbs he even had to change his old style offense with the new NFL player.

 

[Kilyin]

Coaching, personnel that fit your scheme, and chemistry. A QB with a little athleticism doesn't hurt either.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

To lead the league in Time of Possion and have a bad Oline does not make sense. Avg 3.6 per rush and lead TOP does not add up. That means you also lead the league in 4 and 1. the offense just looked lazy.

Protecting the Tackles with a TE or RB made the oline less confident( more problems). Very predictable offense allowed defenses to scheme to our weakness. You had max protection with TE and RB with 1 or 2 WR out in routes. Double Glenn and cover the other with a Lb in front and CB in back. Sack the slow QB. There is the West coast offense that Phil, Seatle, and Geenbay run then you have spread out attack like Cinn, the colts and then you have Norv, Rams, Chiefs time based patterns. What would you call the Cowboys offense run by gurus like Payton and Parcells.

Look at Joe Gibbs he even had to change his old style offense with the new NFL player.

why are you telling me this? all I'm saying is that you don't have to try really hard to field a good Oline, look around the league, esp. the COlt's Oline, you can only name 1 1st day pick on that line, but just that we haven't lucked out in finding an above-average group of Olineman, and I don't know why, just know that that needs to change if we're going to have any success running the type of offense BIll likes to run, TOP

 

[hmcorp]

For the first six games of the year we had a decent o line.

The middel 2 we had an up and down o line.

The last 8 we had an awful o line.

Depth and experience were a problem. Hey New england struggled mightily this year if it wasnt for their weak division they may have lost more than 6.

They got blown out more than once. But they sit in the playoffs now.

We had about 4 truly weak opponents. I dont count philadelphia because we had both games where they were beating people or IN the game from start to finish.

After us philly dropped off the map.

Next year could be a lot better if we have a little more depth and more cohesiveness as a unit.

 

[sago1]

I think all playoff teams have an experienced OL coach who has coached at that position for lot longer then 1 year.

None of our starters played well at their positions, particularly after Adams went done. Come on guys, you can say all you want about Bledsoe's lack of mobility but he does move around well in the pocket. And Bledsoe is not responsible for the poor run blocking committed by the OL, etc. on a regular basis. And we also got poor blocking from our FB & TE. Don't think Campbell was that good this year either.