What happened to Butler?

[AbeBeta]

Let's see, Butler isn't a player the staff trusts against the run at all ... Spencer has had outstanding pressure on the QB all season, so you don't want him out on pass plays.... Solution: Sit Ware on passing downs.

 

[JBond]

Let's see, Butler isn't a player the staff trusts against the run at all ... Spencer has had outstanding pressure on the QB all season, so you don't want him out on pass plays.... Solution: Sit Ware on passing downs.

The logic is flawless.:laugh2:

 

[Bach]

I am all for drafting a WR early if that is the best player available and there is a least some need. For example, I am not sure we need to draft a WR next year over an O-lineman or corner in the first couple of rounds. Every year that is going to change. Have to admit the one WR since 1994 stat is interesting if accurate.

I would only draft one if he's one of the BPA too, and we at least had somewhat of a need. But no one can convince me that 2002 was the only time in the last 15 years we've needed a WR or that one was the BPA when we selected in the first two rounds.

As for the stat it is interesting. Here's another: The last time we drafted a WR in the first round was when we took Alvin Harper in 1991. That was 18 years ago!

 

[JBond]

I would only draft one if he's one of the BPA too, and we at least had somewhat of a need. But no one can convince me that 2002 was the only time in the last 15 years we've needed a WR or that one was the BPA when we selected in the first two rounds.

As for the stat it is interesting. Here's another: The last time we drafted a WR in the first round was when we took Alvin Harper in 1991. That was 18 years ago!

It took a long time to come back from those dark, dark Campo years. I am sure there are plenty of play-making Wr's we passed on (Moss), but at least for next year I feel pretty comfortable Drafting OL and CB early. I pray to god they get the right offensive lineman. A 10-12 year type starter. We are going to have holes turn into major damn breaks soon if we don't hit on some O-linemen.

 

[Alexander]

I am all for drafting a WR early if that is the best player available and there is a least some need. For example, I am not sure we need to draft a WR next year over an O-lineman or corner in the first couple of rounds. Every year that is going to change. Have to admit the one WR since 1994 stat is interesting if accurate.

We aren't exactly recognized as being a forward thinking team that goes BPA, especially with higher draft choices.

The WR stat is very accurate. Both Jerry and Stephen Jones have been claiming for the past several years that WRs take too long to develop, and therefore aren't worth the investment because they can't contribute immediately. Jones ought to thank his lucky stars the scouts were able to designate Austin as an undrafted free agent priority. Same goes for Romo. That's two extremely fortunate circumstances that keep Jones' track record from looking even worse.

Meanwhile, we are drafting tight ends in the second round we know won't bypass Witten before the end of their rookie contract. It doesn't make much sense in terms of drafting behavior. And it is very inconsistent, which is why the results are so spotty in the Jones era since he ripped apart the best scouting department in the NFL after Johnson left.

 

[CF74]

Better yet: Where's Jason Williams?

IR.....

 

[Alexander]

It took a long time to come back from those dark, dark Campo years. I am sure there are plenty of play-making Wr's we passed on (Moss), but at least for next year I feel pretty comfortable Drafting OL and CB early. I pray to god they get the right offensive lineman. A 10-12 year type starter. We are going to have holes turn into major damn breaks soon if we don't hit on some O-linemen.

The problem is that it is a supposedly weak OL draft. That's one of the reasons I wanted that addressed hard in this past draft, if even with the lower round choices we had. Good OL can be found anywhere in the draft if you have a set system and take the right ones to fit what you do best. We have been switching around from zone to man blocking systems for the past six years. First we want to get more mobile linemen under Sparano, then now we want earthmovers under Houck. It just seems we not only can't evaluate linemen very well, we don't even really know what we are looking for.

Even back with the great lines of the 1990s, the majority of them weren't even drafted by the team. Gogan, Donaldson, Gesek, Newton and Tuinei were inherited or traded for. Only Stepnoski, Erik Williams and Larry Allen were homegrown. Even now, only Adams and Gurode are homegrown. The other three starters had to be free agent imports.

It's maddening.

 

[Alexander]

IR.....

No, that's Brandon Williams.

 

[CF74]

No, that's Brandon Williams.

Holy freaking cow, so Jason our Top pick is healthy and collecting dust???

 

[Bach]

It took a long time to come back from those dark, dark Campo years. I am sure there are plenty of play-making Wr's we passed on (Moss), but at least for next year I feel pretty comfortable Drafting OL and CB early. I pray to god they get the right offensive lineman. A 10-12 year type starter. We are going to have holes turn into major damn breaks soon if we don't hit on some O-linemen.

I agree that OL will soon become a major problem if not addressed adequately and soon.

 

[JBond]

The problem is that it is a supposedly weak OL draft. That's one of the reasons I wanted that addressed hard in this past draft, if even with the lower round choices we had. Good OL can be found anywhere in the draft if you have a set system and take the right ones to fit what you do best. We have been switching around from zone to man blocking systems for the past six years. First we want to get more mobile linemen under Sparano, then now we want earthmovers under Houck. It just seems we not only can't evaluate linemen very well, we don't even really know what we are looking for.

Even back with the great lines of the 1990s, the majority of them weren't even drafted by the team. Gogan, Donaldson, Gesek, Newton and Tuinei were inherited or traded for. Only Stepnoski, Erik Williams and Larry Allen were homegrown. Even now, only Adams and Gurode are homegrown. The other three starters had to be free agent imports.

It's maddening.

Great points in both of your responses. The TE thing has gotten a bit annoying to say the least. I thought last years draft was a good OL draft myself. Have not look closely yet this year. Anyone you like in the draft? How about FA's?

 

[KingintheNorth]

Holy freaking cow, so Jason our Top pick is healthy and collecting dust???

12 games so far this season, he has been inactive for 10 of them. Not quite what I was hoping for from our top draft pick. Maybe he suits up this week with Bennett out.

 

[Alexander]

Holy freaking cow, so Jason our Top pick is healthy and collecting dust???

It shouldn't be that shocking.

Even though people like Gosselin had him highly ranked, he was still a project. You could also say he was a mild reach. Couple that with learning a new position and presto. You have him collecting dust. It should have been expected though. That's what happens when you take projection players with your top pick. It wasn't like he would have been ready even to serve as a second string player this year. We already had others right in front of him (Carpenter).

The only disappointment I have is that he hasn't really been an impact player even on special teams or the nickel, which was supposedly the plan for him for this season. Butler for that matter has done better, his bad holding call Sunday notwithstanding.

Our top LB pick collects dust but we still think you can't take WRs high because they take too long to develop. Again, inconsistent thinking.

 

[Bach]

It shouldn't be that shocking.

Even though people like Gosselin had him highly ranked, he was still a project. You could also say he was a mild reach. Couple that with learning a new position and presto. You have him collecting dust. It should have been expected though. That's what happens when you take projection players with your top pick. It wasn't like he would have been ready even to serve as a second string player this year. We already had others right in front of him (Carpenter).

The only disappointment I have is that he hasn't really been an impact player even on special teams or the nickel, which was supposedly the plan for him for this season. Butler for that matter has done better, his bad holding call Sunday notwithstanding.

Our top LB pick collects dust but we still think you can't take WRs high because they take too long to develop. Again, inconsistent thinking.

I think many felt he was somewhat of a reach when we took him. But Gosselin had him in the third so apparently that's all that mattered.

 

[CF74]

12 games so far this season, he has been inactive for 10 of them. Not quite what I was hoping for from our top draft pick. Maybe he suits up this week with Bennett out.

God I hope so, we need a fresh spark on defense right now...ray: ray:

It shouldn't be that shocking.

Even though people like Gosselin had him highly ranked, he was still a project. You could also say he was a mild reach. Couple that with learning a new position and presto. You have him collecting dust. It should have been expected though. That's what happens when you take projection players with your top pick. It wasn't like he would have been ready even to serve as a second string player this year. We already had others right in front of him (Carpenter).

The only disappointment I have is that he hasn't really been an impact player even on special teams or the nickel, which was supposedly the plan for him for this season. Butler for that matter has done better, his bad holding call Sunday notwithstanding.

Our top LB pick collects dust but we still think you can't take WRs high because they take too long to develop. Again, inconsistent thinking.

I remember him in the preseason and my impression was raw aggression, reckless abandonment, and passion for the game. Almost a Bill Bates-esque to him. Why hasn't he been used on ST's, no room I guess?

 

[Alexander]

Great points in both of your responses. The TE thing has gotten a bit annoying to say the least. I thought last years draft was a good OL draft myself. Have not look closely yet this year. Anyone you like in the draft? How about FA's?

Forget about free agency and forget about center help in this draft. It is bad.

OT is okay, but we won't have a shot at top players like Okung, Bruce Campbell or Bulaga. There are also a lot of highly ranked tackles that are busts waiting to happen. I hope we stay away from Anthony Davis, Ciron Black and Charles Brown. They just underachieve way too much and have that look that all OL busts have (think Winston Justice). I hope looking at tackles like Trent Williams, Joseph Barksdale or Jason Fox.

Guards are hard to tell. I have watched Mike Iupati play (only once though) and he was pretty impressive.

 

[Alexander]

I think many felt he was somewhat of a reach when we took him. But Gosselin had him in the third so apparently that's all that mattered.

Gosselin gets too much credit as a guru when all he really is good for is a barometer. His rankings are more about who is rising and falling. Williams was a rising prospect, no question. His workouts were great and teams were getting itchy about him, which led to his grade being inflated.

 

[jazzcat22]

I agree Butler should be getting more time..Barbie Carpenter has been there for years and still stinks. Butler has made big plays this year than Barbie. It doesn't matter if you are a rookie..If you can make plays you should be on the field..

Maybe he can't make them consistantly. The coaches see much more with all the film and practices. We only see the games. The annoumcers only call his or any other players name when they make a play. They don't say....Butler didn't make the play. So how do we really know how he is playing or if he's out of position. He will get his chance next year after Carpenter is gone. Plus he had to deal with some injuries didn't he? Slowed his progress.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

So what are you saying, Alex? You know better than Gosselin about him being a reach or not?

Funny how no one is mentioning that Williams had the same high ankle sprain that is keeping Hamlin out for weeks. Those weeks of camp and the first of the year that he missed really set him back.

And BTW, Wade was asked about J-Will today and he said he's doing fine and that he is "learning how to be a pro, which takes some guys a while". Said he's learned to work in practice and make plays in practice that can carry over into him being able to play. But Wade says he likes his attitude, so whatever he means, it doesn't sound like Williams is slacking.

 

[Cochese]

As well as Spencer is playing, you really want him off the field for Butler?

Butler has more sacks in his limited playing time. I hardly think Spencer is playing well.