What happened to Dak?

[DallasEast]

Some fans treated his first season as if he was a instant HOF and others treated his other seasons as if he was a horrible QB.

Neither is true and that's common among fans.

Ironically, there have been a segment of fans who are been both 'some fans' and 'others'. In other words, 'some fans' and 'others' have actually been one and the same.

 

[percyhoward]

Cooper trade proves that point as well.

Definitely. That was my point, actually.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

That chart further approves our (Realists) point about Dak.

The chart in the middle shows Dak’s numbers when his supporting cast deteriorated.

6 of those games were without Zeke
3 were without Tyron
And 8 were without a #1 receiver


This is why you dont give him a massive contract

What does that have to do with not giving him a 2nd contract?

Yes he was without them for that period of time. He's had poor supporting talent and overcame that too. What's your point?

Dont call yourself a realist lmao

 

[WillieBeamen]

Supporting cast matters.

Check out Romo's passer rating in the first 8 games of 2012, when they were trying to make Keven Ogletree a major part of the offense.

2012
games 1-8
Romo 82.2 (22nd)
games 9-16
Romo 98.4 (6th)

Percy this is deceptive.

These numbers are skewed because he threw 9 ints in two games.

 

[WillieBeamen]

What does that have to do with not giving him a 2nd contract?

Yes he was without them for that period of time. He's had poor supporting talent and overcame that too. What's your point?

Dont call yourself a realist lmao

How the hell did he overcome that?

We missed the playoffs because of his lackluster play. His play alone cost us in that win or go home vs Seahawks

 

[HungryLion]

That chart further approves our (Realists) point about Dak.

The chart in the middle shows Dak’s numbers when his supporting cast deteriorated.

6 of those games were without Zeke
3 were without Tyron
And 8 were without a #1 receiver


This is why you dont give him a massive contract

It only proves something if you also compare it to how other QB’s perform with dreadful supporting casts.

It also only proves something if you ignore the other factors playing into it, including Dak’s youth, coaching, etc.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Percy this is deceptive.

These numbers are skewed because he threw 9 ints in two games.

Lol

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

How the hell did he overcome that?

We missed the playoffs because of his lackluster play. His play alone cost us in that win or go home vs Seahawks

He had a subpar supporting cast this season and won 10 games! How the hell did you not see that?

 

[Baileyneverfailey]

Although I still love Dak and think that he can still grow, why was he so good his rookie season? Or should I say, why was he so "overrated" in his rookie season? Him and Zeke were both powerhouses and they both were the duo to beat in 2016, but, after that, Dak went downhill. Zeke stayed the same (AKA, a great RB). What happened? The coaching? Tony Romo leaving? I don't understand how our opinions and way of play changed so quickly.

2016 - Amazing OL was healthy all year. Teams didn't have tape on Dak yet.
2017 - Zeke suspended, OL wasn't as good.
2018 - OL was missing TFred, Martin and Smith were injured, rookie Williams wasn't strong enough to hold down the LG spot yet. Until we got Cooper our WR corps was one of the worst in the league and were a threat to nobody.

Dak's "struggles' in 2018 were very overblown, because he had some really pedestrian games until we got Cooper. As soon as we got Cooper, he started throwing for more yards and TDs.

He needs to work on his footwork, improve his accuracy as much as he can, but he threw for almost 4000 yards this year, didn't really turn it over, etc. I firmly believe that if the defense didn't just give up 300 yards in the divisional round Dak would've gotten the team to the NFC title game this year.

 

[WillieBeamen]

He had a subpar supporting cast this season and won 10 games! How the hell did you not see that?

Because of the defense. Our defense was ranked way higher than his self-led offense

Are u trolling?

Yall make this too easy

 

[DallasEast]

That chart further approves our (Realists) point about Dak.

The chart in the middle shows Dak’s numbers when his supporting cast deteriorated.

6 of those games were without Zeke
3 were without Tyron
And 8 were without a #1 receiver


This is why you dont give him a massive contract

The word 'massive' can be interpreted in various ways. Regardless, Jerry Jones has too options:

• Pay (a.k.a. make it rain) Prescott and insure his continued service as his franchise quarterback (which he determined midseason in 2016)

or

• Gamble with the prospect of both losing Prescott in the near future while hoping he will acquire a similar or better quarterback, again, in the near future

How anyone interprets realism in this instance is a matter of which option someone 'knows' Jones will actually choose.

 

[WillieBeamen]

It only proves something if you also compare it to how other QB’s perform with dreadful supporting casts.

It also only proves something if you ignore the other factors playing into it, including Dak’s youth, coaching, etc.

In what way was that supporting cast dreadful?

Alfred Morris filling in for Zeke was not dreadful.

Yes we lost Tyron and Chaz Green was a turnstile for one of those games, but he was trash even when tyron and Zeke both were back.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Because of the defense. Our defense was ranked way higher than his self-led offense

Are u trolling?

Yall make this too easy

Make what easy? You haven't proven a thing.

 

[kskboys]

Although I still love Dak and think that he can still grow, why was he so good his rookie season? Or should I say, why was he so "overrated" in his rookie season? Him and Zeke were both powerhouses and they both were the duo to beat in 2016, but, after that, Dak went downhill. Zeke stayed the same (AKA, a great RB). What happened? The coaching? Tony Romo leaving? I don't understand how our opinions and way of play changed so quickly.

He wasn't. It was purely perception. Dak was able to play bus driver his first year. Everything went right for him, as he had several picks dropped, as well as opposing teams making poor decisions against him. He hasn't played all that differently since.

 

[percyhoward]

Percy this is deceptive.

These numbers are skewed because he threw 9 ints in two games.

Willie that's short-sighted. Look who he was targeting.

games 1-8, 2012
Ogletree 45 tgt, 4 int
Austin 71 tgt, 3 int
Witten 82 tgt, 2 int
Bryant 68 tgt, 2 int

Over the entire season, 3 players (Ogletree, Beasley, Harris) were targeted 104 times at a 66.7 rating, while Dez had 137 targets and a 123 rating. In 2012, the #3 receiving situation was broken because Ogletree didn't know how to play the position, and the other two weren't ready yet. As a result, Romo's rating was 90.5 for the season and people thought he was in decline, but the 104 attempts at 66.7 to those three guys was what killed his rating.

 

[WillieBeamen]

Make what easy? You haven't proven a thing.

Supporting my assertion that Dak shouldnt get a big contract here.

If we pay him $25m + a season = not being able to keep a better supporting cast = second half of 2017 repeat for the next 5 seasons

You said Dak overcame a poor supporting cast and won 10 games. He wasnt the main reason we won those 10 games. The defense was.

 

[kskboys]

Oh, and don't forget. After his rook season, the coaching staff made the O more complicated and put more on Dak. In layman's terms, they went back to Linehan's craptastic O scheme, which only Romo was able to run, and that was only due to his ability to extend plays. Romo made it work because the WR's were able to run their stupidly designed routes, and then start freelancing at which time they'd break open. Linehan's schemes have always been known for not getting guys open.

 

[MysteryIceGuro]

He had a subpar supporting cast this season and won 10 games! How the hell did you not see that?

This is a great point. When we look at all the great teams that made it to the NFC Championship and Superbowl, they all have great supporting casts. Coaches, WR Core, TE's, defenses, O-lines, etc. Dallas has all these things, but they're not as elite as the ones that these teams have. Just like how Goff played in his first year, it wasn't good. But once he had the great supporting cast, he did. Get Dak a cast like the Rams and we'd be in the Superbowl.

 

[WillieBeamen]

Willie that's short-sighted. Look who he was targeting.

games 1-8, 2012
Ogletree 45 tgt, 4 int
Austin 71 tgt, 3 int
Witten 82 tgt, 2 int
Bryant 68 tgt, 2 int

Over the entire season, 3 players (Ogletree, Beasley, Harris) were targeted 104 times at a 66.7 rating, while Dez had 137 targets and a 123 rating. In 2012, the #3 receiving situation was broken because Ogletree didn't know how to play the position, and the other two weren't ready yet. As a result, Romo's rating was 90.5 for the season and people thought he was in decline, but the 104 attempts at 66.7 to those three guys was what killed his rating.

Regardless of this, he had 4 really good games and 4 poor games. That first game, Ogletree was actually a major reason we won.

How many “really good games” did Dak have in 2017, once Zeke got suspended?

 

[percyhoward]

Regardless of this, he had 4 really good games and 4 poor games. That first game, Ogletree was actually a major reason we won.

How many “really good games” did Dak have in 2017, once Zeke got suspended?

I'm going a little deeper than merely identifying "really good" or "really bad" games here. That was all targets to the WR3 all season long, so it includes all the games you mentioned.

In the same way, you can look at all Prescott's attempts in every game in 2017 and compare. Dak's efficiency did suffer without Elliott, as you would expect. But that was nothing to compared to his numbers when either Smith or Martin played less than half the game.

Prescott's passer rating
first 8 games 97.9
last 8 games 74.0
diff -23.9

w/Elliott 91.8
without 76.6
diff -15.2

w/ Smith & Martin 97.0
w/o Smith or w/o Martin 55.4
diff -41.6