What Now? With Peterson Off The Market.

[Rack]

If you get it, then you would know I was on the Carpenter bandwagon to play the SOLB with Ware. Although reading many of your post, I realize your more interested in sounding right than trying to actually being right. Also, if you can only recall one run that was partly his fault and call that average, then your right. Although, I consider body slamming RBs in the backfield pretty stout.

You sure like putting words in people's mouths, don't you?


Did I post anywhere at anytime that I only remember one run that was Ware's fault? Where did I post that? Please quote that post. Hell, find where I have posted that in ANY thread, on ANY site, and ANY time, ever. Go ahead, have fun looking for it.


Don't be a Blindzebra and start spin doctoring my posts. Just cuz I only pointed out one run doesn't mean that's the only one I can think of. Please, only a moron "debates" that way. And I don't think you're a moron.


Sounding right has nothing to do with it. We spent a high pick on Ware last year to be our PASS RUSHER. It would be pretty unintelligent to then move him to the side where he'd be less comfortable, and then expect to find another pass rusher just as good or better then Ware, with a lesser draft pick.

I mean... if that's the case we shouldn't of drafted Ware last year at all.

You seeing my point of view yet?

I'm not saying I don't want Lawson. I sure as hell WOULD like Lawson. I'm just saying that the coach wanting Ware to put on 10 lbs this offseason has NOTHING to do with wanting to move him to the strong side or with drafting Lawson.

He was "ok" against the run last year. You need to be better then OK against the run to play the strong side. Not to mention he'd be playing a side he rarely played last year (or in college). So 1 year after teaching him a new position, you're then going to change his position again? And you think adding a measley 10 lbs is gonna offset everything?


Parcells wants him to be better then "OK" against the run. If he were excellent against the run then MAYBE they'd consider moving him to the strong side, but he wasn't excellent against the run. Far from it.


And, IMO, if we were to get Lawson, they'd likely move him to SOLB. Parcells likes having as little moving parts as possible. By keeping Lawson on the weakside he'd have to teach him a new position (like he did with Ware last year) and teach Ware a new position for the second year in a row. You think Parcells wants that as his starting OLBs this year? I think he'd rather have 1 guy learning a new position instead of 2.

Personally, Carpenter is a better fit for our defense. He can play the run better then Lawson, cover better then Lawson, and is still a pretty good pass rusher.

I too am enamored with Lawson's freakish athletic ability. My heart tells me our pass rush would be outstanding with him and Ware rushing the passer. But my brain tells me Carpenter would be a bigger asset (figuratively and literally) to the team, overall. And our pass rush could still be outstanding with him on the team.


That said, Lawson... Carpenter... I'll take either one. And I'll be dang happy about it.

 

[bobbie brewskie]

basically for a young player like Ware to put on 10 lbs is nothing, its not hard for young guys to bulk up. if anything this 10 lbs of muscle/strength is just going to help ware against the run and pass, as he will be much better at shedding blocks and his speed may even increase. gaining weight does not always mean that you are slowing down. im sorry but i gained 30 lbs after my last season and no way it was all muscle, but i got faster. Ware is young and 10 lbs will only help him progress into the linebacker that we want him to become.

 

[50cent]

basically for a young player like Ware to put on 10 lbs is nothing, its not hard for young guys to bulk up. if anything this 10 lbs of muscle/strength is just going to help ware against the run and pass, as he will be much better at shedding blocks and his speed may even increase. gaining weight does not always mean that you are slowing down. im sorry but i gained 30 lbs after my last season and no way it was all muscle, but i got faster. Ware is young and 10 lbs will only help him progress into the linebacker that we want him to become.

My question would still be, why would you want your WOLB weighing more than your SOLB? No matter who we sign or draft, Ware would essentially be our biggest OLB. Most teams put there biggest and strongest OLB on the strong side.

Carpenter -255 lbs
Lawson- 240LBS
Wimberly - 250
Burnett - 240
Singleton - 240
Peterson (who was a possible signing) 238
Boiman 238
Ayodele 250 )moved inside)

It doesn't make sense to add all this weight then cripple your defense with a smaller SOLB!

 

[Rack]

My question would still be, why would you want your WOLB weighing more than your SOLB? No matter who we sign or draft, Ware would essentially be our biggest OLB. Most teams put there biggest and strongest OLB on the strong side.

Carpenter -255 lbs
Lawson- 240LBS
Wimberly - 250
Burnett - 240
Singleton - 240
Peterson (who was a possible signing) 238
Boiman 238
Ayodele 250 )moved inside)

It doesn't make sense to add all this weight then cripple your defense with a smaller SOLB!

One thing wrong with this... who was our original starting SOLB lsat year?


That would be 238 lb Al Singleton. The fact that we've already gone with a ligher SOLB then Ware is proof that it could happen.

Hell, how much did Fujita weigh last year?


Plus, you're comparing the weight of a second year player to a potential rookie. Carpenter only weighs 255, but how much will he weigh in year 2? Year 3? Not to mention Carpenter will weigh more as a rookie then Ware weighed as a rookie.


Plus, again, Ware isn't a great run stopper. He's "Ok". You don't move an "Ok" run stopper to the strong side just one year after teaching him to play a new position.

The 10 lbs is simply to improve his run defense at his current position, and to give him a little more strength when he goes up against 300+ lbers in passing situations.


Plus, size isn't everything. Al Singleton did a solid job last year, why wouldn't he be able to do a solid job next season?

 

[bobbie brewskie]

My question would still be, why would you want your WOLB weighing more than your SOLB? No matter who we sign or draft, Ware would essentially be our biggest OLB. Most teams put there biggest and strongest OLB on the strong side.

Carpenter -255 lbs
Lawson- 240LBS
Wimberly - 250
Burnett - 240
Singleton - 240
Peterson (who was a possible signing) 238
Boiman 238
Ayodele 250 )moved inside)

It doesn't make sense to add all this weight then cripple your defense with a smaller SOLB!

Im sorry but you are worrying WAYYY to much about weight, skill is a factor here to. your not gonna just put james or Ayodele at SOLB because they are the right weight for it, you would put somebody there who compliments ware talent wise and plays big, weight is way over-rated right now and everybody needs to realize that its how they play the position not how much they weigh.

 

[Smith22]

I'm with Rack on this one. Ware was ok versus the run last year. Moving him to strong side just doesn't make sense to me, even if he gains 10 pounds of muscle.

 

[50cent]

One thing wrong with this... who was our original starting SOLB lsat year?


That would be 238 lb Al Singleton. The fact that we've already gone with a ligher SOLB then Ware is proof that it could happen.

Hell, how much did Fujita weigh last year?


Plus, you're comparing the weight of a second year player to a potential rookie. Carpenter only weighs 255, but how much will he weigh in year 2? Year 3? Not to mention Carpenter will weigh more as a rookie then Ware weighed as a rookie.


Plus, again, Ware isn't a great run stopper. He's "Ok". You don't move an "Ok" run stopper to the strong side just one year after teaching him to play a new position.

The 10 lbs is simply to improve his run defense at his current position, and to give him a little more strength when he goes up against 300+ lbers in passing situations.

Singletons size was the main reason we traded for Fujita, who was listed at 250. BP stated that he wanted to get bigger over there. Now that we have lost Fujita, we would be going backwards in size if we can't get Carpenter and that not a guarantee that he will be there for us to add. My point is that by bulking up Ware (who, IMO was above avg. vs. run) it covers our azz in case we can't get a bigger OLB via draft or FA. Now if you sit here and tell me that Fujita, Singleton, Burnett were head and shoulders better than Ware in the run, then I think your crazy. On that note, we were still a top 5 defense with a sub par SOLB core vs. the run. Ware absolutely improves our run defense over any of them on the strong side.

 

[50cent]

Im sorry but you are worrying WAYYY to much about weight, skill is a factor here to. your not gonna just put james or Ayodele at SOLB because they are the right weight for it, you would put somebody there who compliments ware talent wise and plays big, weight is way over-rated right now and everybody needs to realize that its how they play the position not how much they weigh.

Please name that member of the Dallas Cowboys that compliments Ware skills on the strong side that is head and shoulders better in the run than Ware.

 

[bobbie brewskie]

Singletons size was the main reason we traded for Fujita, who was listed at 250. BP stated that he wanted to get bigger over there. Now that we have lost Fujita, we would be going backwards in size if we can't get Carpenter and that not a guarantee that he will be there for us to add. My point is that by bulking up Ware (who, IMO was above avg. vs. run) it covers our azz in case we can't get a bigger OLB via draft or FA. Now if you sit here and tell me that Fujita, Singleton, Burnett were head and shoulders better than Ware in the run, then I think your crazy. On that note, we were still a top 5 defense with a sub par SOLB core vs. the run. Ware absolutely improves our run defense over any of them on the strong side.

what you dont realize is that Ware at the WOLB spot with somebody else (Carpenter, Lawson, Burnett, whomever for that matter) at the SOLB is better because Ware is so much more talented at the WOLB spot than he would be at the SOLB and why take away a player from a position he is crazy good at. and also Suggs went from 254-264 when he made then transition from OLB to DE and now i think hes even higher than 264 and still performs like an OLB with the same burst and speed that he had before the added 10-15 lbs.

 

[50cent]

what you dont realize is that Ware at the WOLB spot with somebody else (Carpenter, Lawson, Burnett, whomever for that matter) at the SOLB is better because Ware is so much more talented at the WOLB spot than he would be at the SOLB and why take away a player from a position he is crazy good at. and also Suggs went from 254-264 when he made then transition from OLB to DE and now i think hes even higher than 264 and still performs like an OLB with the same burst and speed that he had before the added 10-15 lbs.

What you keep failing to realize is that everyone you mention may not be a Cowboy next year. There aren't any guarantees that we can just get Lawson or Carp through the draft. Singleton and Burnett may not even be healthy enough to play when TC starts. You lost Fujita, so what is our back up plan? Start Shanle or Fowler at SOLB? I doubt it. How about Boiman? He only weighs 238. You may not want to believe it, but I think Ware played well enough vs. the run that they are seriously thinking about moving him over there. He still gets to rush the passer just as much. That depends on the formation. And, it covers our tails just in case we can't get a quality SOLB.

 

[bobbie brewskie]

i gurantee you they have thought of everything you just said, and Ware will make the transition over to SOLB only if it is 100% necissary and we do not draft a SOLB. either way id rather have ware coming strong off the WOLB position since there is no1 else and he is amazing there, and have a draft pick and at worst Boiman at the SOLB.

 

[50cent]

i gurantee you they have thought of everything you just said, and Ware will make the transition over to SOLB only if it is 100% necissary and we do not draft a SOLB. either way id rather have ware coming strong off the WOLB position since there is no1 else and he is amazing there, and have a draft pick and at worst Boiman at the SOLB.

In any other year, I would agree with you. Although, I don't think BP or JJ had Boiman in mind at SOLB. Also when researching the rest of the 3-4 teams, there rush or WOLB weigh between 250 -255 and not in the 260s. Those are the SOLB weights. BP has stated numerous times that he will field the best players at their positions. I don't think our best defense is with the likes of Boiman, Shanle, Fowler, or Thornton at SOLB. It doesn't make sense to just make him add weigth when he did just fine at last years weight.

 

[bobbie brewskie]

trust me im not saying boiman is starting, that is why i KNOW we will be drafting a linebacker (Carpenter, Lawson) NO WAY WILL BOIMAN START - that whole idea was sarcastic to make you realize that a draft pick is being used for the SOLB.

 

[50cent]

P.S. - As of right now, our best starting LBs would be

SOLB- Ware
ILB - Ayodele
ILB - James
WOLB - Thornton

 

[50cent]

trust me im not saying boiman is starting, that is why i KNOW we will be drafting a linebacker (Carpenter, Lawson) NO WAY WILL BOIMAN START - that whole idea was sarcastic to make you realize that a draft pick is being used for the SOLB.

Again, you can't assume that Carp or Lawson will just be ours. I know you were kidding about Boiman, but I was trying to get across the fact that we have covered our butts if we don't get Carp. or Lawson with Ware's added weight.

 

[bobbie brewskie]

thats why i am looking forward to the draft! especially the first round and 2nd round as we are going FS and SOLB (DT if ngata falls)

 

[50cent]

thats why i am looking forward to the draft! especially the first round and 2nd round as we are going FS and SOLB (DT if ngata falls)

In a perfect world, I would want

Round 1 - Lawson
Round 2 - Allen
Round 3 - Greg Jennings WR

 

[bobbie brewskie]

In a perfect world, I would want

Round 1 - Lawson
Round 2 - Allen
Round 3 - Greg Jennings WR

do you think we could get allen at the 49?

 

[50cent]

do you think we could get allen at the 49?

Right around draft time teams usually get scared by injuried players, because they don't want to invest lots of money in an unknown. Thats right about the time (2nd round) that we usually gamble on a potential studs with recent injury problems(Rogers, Burnett, JJ, QC, Dixon). I think Allen drops some, but I don't know if he will drop that far.

 

[bobbie brewskie]

Right around draft time teams usually get scared by injuried players, because they don't want to invest lots of money in an unknown. Thats right about the time (2nd round) that we usually gamble on a potential studs with recent injury problems(Rogers, Burnett, JJ, QC, Dixon). I think Allen drops some, but I don't know if he will drop that far.

What do you guys think of trading down in the first round a couple of spots, getting Bobby Carpenter and picking up a extra 3rd then packaging both for another 2nd?. It seems to me that the valve is in the second round, players we could use like Sinorice Moss, Maurice Stovall, FS Anthony Smith and a couple of decent OT's, maybe even McNeil falls in mid 2nd round. Just a thought.

this is highly unlikely but i mean if it happens a trading down and still getting carpenter while with the 3rd picks we have to acquire a WR/OL. or like he said trade em up for a 2nd to give us assurance on allen and then another 2nd to use on a WR or a OL. (think some1 else on the draft board said somn similar to this)

but since this is highly unlikely we will hafta stick with carpenter at 18, hope for allen at 49 and then in the 3rd go for OL/WR depending on whos available and which is of higher need.