What OC/RG combo do you want next year

[baltcowboy]

They wouldn't have taken interior lineman in the 1st. They wanted a tackle.

What a stupid decision. That will haunt us for a long time.

 

[baltcowboy]

Barton isnt any better than Beebe. He is a penalty machine and has given up more pressures than Beebe has. He hasnt been any better as a run blocker either. Barton's rookie year has been underwhelming considering how high he was taken and how old he is

What are you going by. I have heard that Barton is the best offensive lineman in the draft with his play. Tampa’ s line has been excellent this season.

 

[Mr_437]

Good thread, and close vote. I have Hoffman at Center because his movement skills are much better than Beebe imo, Hoffman is always downfield making blocks when he's the Center. I have Beebe at RG because dude is a natural OG, just look at him. Also, Beebe was know as a mauler type so unleash that mentality at OG where he doesn't have ro make checks and worry about snapping, just go whoop the guy in front of you.

 

[darthseinfeld]

What are you going by. I have heard that Barton is the best offensive lineman in the draft with his play. Tampa’ s line has been excellent this season.

His stats on PFF. He has been penalized 12 times and given up 20 pressures. Beebe has been penalized 3 times and given up 15 pressures. For what its worth, his overall is a 53.8, run block 54.6, and pass block 61.7. All in all fairly typical of a rookie OL, even a high pick. But he isnt playing anywhere near a Zack Martin 2016 level that is going to make anyone regret not drafting him.

If someone is talking him up, its probably just Bucs bloggers fluffing him

 

[thunderpimp91]

His stats on PFF. He has been penalized 12 times and given up 20 pressures. Beebe has been penalized 3 times and given up 15 pressures. For what its worth, his overall is a 53.8, run block 54.6, and pass block 61.7. All in all fairly typical of a rookie OL, even a high pick. But he isnt playing anywhere near a Zack Martin 2016 level that is going to make anyone regret not drafting him.

If someone is talking him up, its probably just Bucs bloggers fluffing him

His PFF score really surprised me so I went and watched all his snaps from week 1 against Washington and this past week against LA. I'm typically pretty supportive of PFF grades but I think they might be doing Barton dirty, and part of that could be from the penalties holding his score back IDK. From those 150ish snaps I watched I would easily take Barton over either Hoffman or Beebe.

*Technique and fundamentals are excellent for even a 5 year vet nonetheless a rookie
*Moves really well in all directions, and Tampa uses him in about every way imaginable.
*Excellent feel for blocking at the 2nd level...has a good ability to go where the LB is going to be, not where they are at the snap.
*Good natural instincts and timing in moving on from 1st level blocks, its almost like he feels exactly where the RB is on some plays
*Rarely gives up on a play - Very good play early Q2 against Tampa where he got beat on an outside zone, but just carried his man all the way to the sideline opening up a nice cutback lane for the RB.
*If you let him get his legs driving its game over, this could be a massive issue for Mazi Smith today on a lot of those stretch runs

Some of the things teams might be taking advantage of...

*He seems to cheat over to help the LG too much which can get him in trouble on pass sets sometimes....I wouldnt be surprised if Dallas tried to get OSA 1v1 on their LG today on passing downs as he looks like the liability on their OL. If he continues to cheat to the left it could be an opportunity to stunt Micah inside and attack the inside gap.
*He missed a couple of stunt pickups against Washington, seemed to be better against LA, but something to watch
*I saw him get knocked off balance multiple times from pretty simple club moves...not sure that Dallas has the big bodies up front to replicate that though.
*Ends up on the ground an awful lot....I don't think its that he plays weak, but he plays with great footwork and very wide base. With that wide base he seem prone to getting tripped up. Also it looks like a lot of his strength comes from his excellent lower body mechanics, if you can get him off balance

 

[darthseinfeld]

His PFF score really surprised me so I went and watched all his snaps from week 1 against Washington and this past week against LA. I'm typically pretty supportive of PFF grades but I think they might be doing Barton dirty, and part of that could be from the penalties holding his score back IDK. From those 150ish snaps I watched I would easily take Barton over either Hoffman or Beebe.

*Technique and fundamentals are excellent for even a 5 year vet nonetheless a rookie
*Moves really well in all directions, and Tampa uses him in about every way imaginable.
*Excellent feel for blocking at the 2nd level...has a good ability to go where the LB is going to be, not where they are at the snap.
*Good natural instincts and timing in moving on from 1st level blocks, its almost like he feels exactly where the RB is on some plays
*Rarely gives up on a play - Very good play early Q2 against Tampa where he got beat on an outside zone, but just carried his man all the way to the sideline opening up a nice cutback lane for the RB.
*If you let him get his legs driving its game over, this could be a massive issue for Mazi Smith today on a lot of those stretch runs

Some of the things teams might be taking advantage of...

*He seems to cheat over to help the LG too much which can get him in trouble on pass sets sometimes....I wouldnt be surprised if Dallas tried to get OSA 1v1 on their LG today on passing downs as he looks like the liability on their OL. If he continues to cheat to the left it could be an opportunity to stunt Micah inside and attack the inside gap.
*He missed a couple of stunt pickups against Washington, seemed to be better against LA, but something to watch
*I saw him get knocked off balance multiple times from pretty simple club moves...not sure that Dallas has the big bodies up front to replicate that though.
*Ends up on the ground an awful lot....I don't think its that he plays weak, but he plays with great footwork and very wide base. With that wide base he seem prone to getting tripped up. Also it looks like a lot of his strength comes from his excellent lower body mechanics, if you can get him off balance

PFF does highly penalized stuff like that. Especially if you are talking holds

Rookies tend to be a mixed bag. If I a Bucs fan, Im still very happy with Bartons rookie year

 

[thunderpimp91]

PFF does highly penalized stuff like that. Especially if you are talking holds

Rookies tend to be a mixed bag. If I a Bucs fan, Im still very happy with Bartons rookie year

Yeah Barton looks like the real deal. Not sure where all the penalties are coming from since Ive only watched two games, but he seems like a guy who has played pretty well with some rookie growing pains but might be able to up his play another notch with another year in the weight room. For the record my last post I didnt mean any of that as a knock to Hoffman or Beebe either, I just think Barton may end up closer to Creed Humphrey within the next couple years than he will a mid tier Center.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Yeah Barton looks like the real deal. Not sure where all the penalties are coming from since Ive only watched two games, but he seems like a guy who has played pretty well with some rookie growing pains but might be able to up his play another notch with another year in the weight room. For the record my last post I didnt mean any of that as a knock to Hoffman or Beebe either, I just think Barton may end up closer to Creed Humphrey within the next couple years than he will a mid tier Center.

At worst he will probably be s borderline Pro Bowl caliber OC. Still I don't think its worth rueage considering Beebe has played at about the same level. At this Id still take a combo of Guyton and Beebe over just Barton by a mile

 

[thunderpimp91]

At worst he will probably be s borderline Pro Bowl caliber OC. Still I don't think its worth rueage considering Beebe has played at about the same level. At this Id still take a combo of Guyton and Beebe over just Barton by a mile

If Guyton develops into even an average starter I will agree completely there.

Where I would disagree with you is in the thought that Beebe has played at the same level as Barton. In some ways they have but despite the PFF numbers being similar Tampa seems to be asking a lot more from Barton than Dallas is putting on Beebes shoulders from what I’m seeing. Beebe is just as good maybe better when 1v1 with a DT, but on the move Barton is 10x the player Beebe is. It’s why I’m really hopeful they move Beebe to G eventually.

 

[EPL0c0]

With Hoffman playing well at both spots, it begs the question

It's a nice problem to have.

I think stick to Beebe-Hoffman for the rest of the season, but let them battle it out in the offseason/camp

 

[EPL0c0]

Good thread, and close vote. I have Hoffman at Center because his movement skills are much better than Beebe imo, Hoffman is always downfield making blocks when he's the Center. I have Beebe at RG because dude is a natural OG, just look at him. Also, Beebe was know as a mauler type so unleash that mentality at OG where he doesn't have ro make checks and worry about snapping, just go whoop the guy in front of you.

There's a lot of work to be done in the off-season

I don't think it's too outrageous to go with: Smith - Bass/draftpick - Hoffman - Beebe - Guyton

BUT there are some good OTs coming out this year so: Guyton - Smith - Hoffman - Beebe - Draftpick is possible

 

[Floatyworm]

Good thread, and close vote. I have Hoffman at Center because his movement skills are much better than Beebe imo, Hoffman is always downfield making blocks when he's the Center. I have Beebe at RG because dude is a natural OG, just look at him. Also, Beebe was know as a mauler type so unleash that mentality at OG where he doesn't have ro make checks and worry about snapping, just go whoop the guy in front of you.

.......I still wanna get Bass in there though......the run game just seems to take off with him in there....

Smith....Beebe....Hoffman....Bass....Guyton