What other ex-Cowboys should be in HOF?

[armadillooutlaw]

Morton was never impressive IMO. Cowboys had a great team for the SB against the Colts and when he QB'd Denver they had a Crushing (see what I did there?) D but was destroyed by Dallas' D that game


Chuck Howley is the most glaring omission. His credentials are better than many defensive players in the HOF.

I appreciate the perspective. Thanks.

 

[John813]

I think Ware will be next Cowboy to go in. The way they keep letting good but not great players in I’m starting to think Romo has a shot. After them Witten will definitely go in. I think Martin has a shot if he can keep playing at a high level and avoid injuries. Fred is a long shot due to his position. I’m starting to think a lot of the old guys who deserve to go in have a steep hill to climb. Hate seeing them getting passed over by good popular players Harvey was a better DE than Michael gap tooth.

I agree about Martin.

Every year he's made the AP team. 4 times 1st team, 2 times 2nd team. I can't think of another player that has made the AP every year for that long.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Chuck Howley is at the top of the list. He was first-team All-Pro 5 times in the golden age of linebackers. He was second-team All-Pro once. He is the only Super Bowl MVP from a losing team and could easily have been MVP twice (he recovered a fumble and returned an interception 41 yards in the win over Miami). He intercepted 25 passes and in the regular season scored 3 touchdowns. He had 590 yards on returns of interceptions and fumbles. In 11 playoff games, he intercepted 4 passes and recovered 2 fumbles. He had another 133 return yards. And he scored a touchdown on a fumble recovery. In an emergency, he punted once for 37 yards. He also returned a kickoff 30 yards. Unofficially, as stats weren't kept, he had 26.5 sacks for the Cowboys, including 5.5 in 1965.

Tom Landry was quoted -- "I don't know that I've ever seen anybody better at linebacker than Chuck Howley."

Howley was the 4th player inducted into the Cowboys Ring of Honor and played 5 seasons beyond numbers 2 and 3 (Meredith and Perkins who were franchise pioneer players). It is clear how much he was valued. I struggle to understand how Howley has been passed over.

 

[Keithfansince5]

Harvey Martin was one of the most dominant pass rushers in history, but they didn't keep sack records most of his career. He had an unofficial 23.5 sacks one season, which would be the record if they kept sacks as an official stat at the time.

But he also had long history of drug and domestic abuse problems, which hurt him probably both by keeping him from being even a greater player than he was, and no doubt hurts him in the eyes of HOF voters.

I was going to add that Harvey Martin is the next most deserving player for Dallas. That season where they won the SB 12 over Denver, is the season he had 23 sacks. Simply amazing. It is beyond belief that he is not in.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

I agree with Chuck H. And Harvey M. they both should have been in awhile ago.

 

[OmerV]

I was going to add that Harvey Martin is the next most deserving player for Dallas. That season where they won the SB 12 over Denver, is the season he had 23 sacks. Simply amazing. It is beyond belief that he is not in.

The problem I think with him is that while at his best, he was among the best ever rushing the passer, there were a lot of years he wasn't at his best because of his demons. And because of that, some may see him as more of a flash in the pan.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

The problem I think with him is that while at his best, he was among the best ever rushing the passer, there were a lot of years he wasn't at his best because of his demons. And because of that, some may see him as more of a flash in the pan.

I think you're right about that. And I think both he and Howley were probably hurt by having two high-profile teammates at the same position (Too Tall and Lee Roy Jordan). Even Harris maybe has been hurt by being linked with Waters. And Pearson looks, statistically, a lot like Tony Hill. They both look, statistically, a lot like Swann and Stallworth.

But I also feel -- especially at that time -- there was a bias against the Cowboys. I guessed it was because they were in the East with the Giants, Commanders and Eagles. A lot of prominent sportswriters probably grew up disliking Dallas. There also might have still been some ill will against the city a few years after the Kennedy assassination. Younger people can't know how much of a stigma that was for 10-15 years.

In any event, for a long time, the only Cowboys who got in were the absolute slam-dunk players (Lilly, Staubach, Dorsett -- those types). Howley, Martin, Harris, Pearson, Niland, Too Tall... guys like that got left behind. At least 1-2 should have made it. One could argue a case for any of them. Harris and Niland were hurt by the perception, at the time, that safety and guard were lesser positions. The truth is Too Tall probably affected games, consistently, more than Martin. He played the strong side and was devastating against the run, when running was still a very, very big deal. Too Tall also batted down who knows how many passes.

 

[OmerV]

I think you're right about that. And I think both he and Howley were probably hurt by having two high-profile teammates at the same position (Too Tall and Lee Roy Jordan). Even Harris maybe has been hurt by being linked with Waters. And Pearson looks, statistically, a lot like Tony Hill. They both look, statistically, a lot like Swann and Stallworth.

But I also feel -- especially at that time -- there was a bias against the Cowboys. I guessed it was because they were in the East with the Giants, Commanders and Eagles. A lot of prominent sportswriters probably grew up disliking Dallas. There also might have still been some ill will against the city a few years after the Kennedy assassination. Younger people can't know how much of a stigma that was for 10-15 years.

In any event, for a long time, the only Cowboys who got in were the absolute slam-dunk players (Lilly, Staubach, Dorsett -- those types). Howley, Martin, Harris, Pearson, Niland, Too Tall... guys like that got left behind. At least 1-2 should have made it. One could argue a case for any of them. Harris and Niland were hurt by the perception, at the time, that safety and guard were lesser positions. The truth is Too Tall probably affected games, consistently, more than Martin. He played the strong side and was devastating against the run, when running was still a very, very big deal. Too Tall also batted down who knows how many passes.

Interesting point. Yes, Pearson's stats do look very much like Hill's, and for someone judging mostly on stats Hill would seem to be as good or better. But those of us that watched those years and were old enough to know what we were seeing know Pearson was more than stats. He was the clutch guy. The guy that would go over the middle and take a hit. The guy Staubach had complete confidence in - Staubach's go to guy when his back was against the wall and a big play was needed.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Interesting point. Yes, Pearson's stats do look very much like Hill's, and for someone judging mostly on stats Hill would seem to be as good or better. But those of us that watched those years and were old enough to know what we were seeing know Pearson was more than stats. He was the clutch guy. The guy that would go over the middle and take a hit. The guy Staubach had complete confidence in - Staubach's go to guy when his back was against the wall and a big play was needed.

Totally agree. One could argue Pearson was among the most clutch receivers in the history of the league. Pearson should be a slam-dunk HoFer. I have him second to Howley on my list of those Cowboys snubbed. The game is more than stats.

 

[MichaelValentino]

Chuck Howley is probably the biggest snub, and Shake_Tiller makes an excellent argument above for Howley's Hall worthiness.

Lee Roy Jordan was overshadowed by other great MLBs during the era of great MLBs and great front fours (early 60s to late 70s).

Drew Pearson, Harvey Martin and Cliff Harris should be in, and I think there are two reasons keeping them out. (1) East coast bias against Dallas players. It sounds like sour grapes but compelling arguments have been made that this bias exists. (2) This is the more painful one for Cowboys fans. Losing SB XIII to the Steelers probably cost the Cowboys those three being enshrined in Canton. Think about it, had Dallas won, both the Cowboys and Steelers would have had three SB victories in the 70s - with Dallas having more regular season wins, more playoff appearances and more playoff victories. With championships comes national recognition. If Dallas was considered either the team of the 70s or shared that title with Pittsburgh, I believe Pearson, Martin and Harris would be in the Hall. IIRC, the 70s Steelers have nine players in Canton; the 70s Cowboys have seven, including Bob Lilly and Bob Hayes, whose best years were in the 60s.

Erik Williams. I've commented about him a number of times in CZ. From 1991 to mid-1994, he was the most physically imposing tackle I ever saw, and next to Anthony Munoz, IMHO the best tackle in NFL history. Had he sustained his high level of pre-car wreck play for another 6-7 years, he'd have been a 1st ballot inductee - like Larry Allen.

Darren Woodson. Probably the only player from the 90s teams not in who has a reasonable chance to get in, and who should have been in by now. I agree with a poster above that he was even better than Cliff Harris.

One last comment on Harvey Martin: compare his stats to those of Richard Dent. Martin had more sacks per game and per QB drop-back over his career than Dent did. And Dent never had a season like Martin's 1977 campaign when he had 23 sacks in 14 games.

John Niland was another great player, but probably just a slight notch below HOF-level.

 

[fifaguy]

Dexter coakley

 

[OmerV]

Totally agree. One could argue Pearson was among the most clutch receivers in the history of the league. Pearson should be a slam-dunk HoFer. I have him second to Howley on my list of those Cowboys snubbed. The game is more than stats.

If Swann weren't in it would be easier for me to accept Pearson not being in. Pearson easily had as good a career, and it could easily be argued he had a better one, but Swann had the two big Super Bowl games against Dallas that included a couple of highlight reel catches. I think the highlight reel catches are what got voter's attention.

Of course, the Super Bowl championships helped Pittsburgh players too. If just one of the Super Bowl games between Dallas and Pittsburgh had gone the other way, and Dallas won 3 in the 1970's, the HOF voting may have included a couple more Cowboys.

 

[kycowboyfan]

Totally agree about Howley, Pearson, Woody and Captain Crash. Another one that is overlooked because of his time spent in the USFL. Hershel Walker.

 

[cowboysfan99]

Here’s the 1970s All Decade team. Notice the only two not in the hall of fame.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

If Swann weren't in it would be easier for me to accept Pearson not being in. Pearson easily had as good a career, and it could easily be argued he had a better one, but Swann had the two big Super Bowl games against Dallas that included a couple of highlight reel catches. I think the highlight reel catches are what got voter's attention.

Of course, the Super Bowl championships helped Pittsburgh players too. If just one of the Super Bowl games between Dallas and Pittsburgh had gone the other way, and Dallas won 3 in the 1970's, the HOF voting may have included a couple more Cowboys.

The sluggishness getting some Cowboys in (Renfro had to wait until 1996, Wright until 2006 and Hayes until 2009) probably has hurt the numbers as well. The voting process includes a Dallas media rep (Rick Gosselin) making the argument for potential Cowboys inductees. Having spent years arguing for Renfro, then Wright, then Hayes, he probably was delayed in making the case for other deserving players. The fact Renfro, Wright and Hayes waited so long is really criminal and a good reason to accept that there was bias against the team.

Renfro was a 10-time Pro Bowler and a 7-time All-Pro. He was a Super Bowl champion twice.

Rayfield Wright was a 6-time Pro Bowler, 3-time first-team All-Pro, 3-time second-team All-Pro, 2-time Super Bowl champion and member of the 1970s NFL All-Decade Team.

Hayes is one of the few players who literally changed the game of football. Consider his early domination -- in his first 7 seasons, he caught 67 TD passes and in 4 of those seasons averaged more than 20 yards per catch. He also returned 3 punts for TDs and in 1968 averaged 20.8 yards on 15 returns, including two TDs.

Hayes' star burned out pretty quickly, and if he had been injured and retired after 7 seasons he might have been remembered similarly to Gale Sayers. But he changed the game.

Four non-special teams players from the All-Decade Team of the 1970s haven't been inducted into the HoF. Two are Cowboys (Pearson and Harris). Pearson and Harris are the only two who were on the first team.

 

[Rayman70]

the list is way too long to post it here. But Everson Walls comes to mind.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

I wonder if Tony Romo actually has a shot at the Hall of Fame ?

- with Tyron Smith, I would think the NFL World sees him Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden. Walter Jones- Generation kind of era dominant OTs. and those guys went No.1 to top 6 overall in their respective draft class.

- if he stays healthy I think Zack martin has a much better chance at HOF than Fredrick.
will eventually be considered a generation Hall of Fame OG such as Larry Allen, Mike Munchak, Russ Grimm, Randall McDaniel and Wil Shield.
Bruce Matthews was all over the place as OG, OT, and C.

- I think Jason Witten will make it in, but I also think its fortunate that he is a Cowboy too.
Ditto for Romo.

With Tony I would have to say no. I loved Tony but this is the hall of fame, not the hall of the very good. While there are a number of reasons why it didn't happen, but he never won a championship, Superbowl or Conference. So I can't say he should be in.

BUT.. I have noticed a trend the last several years, if you are a popular media person and had a good playing career, it seems to help your chances a lot.

 

[cej757]

Nate Newton made the 1st cut a few years ago but probably will never get in do to his off the field issues.

 

[Brax]

☆Chuck Howley☆
☆Lee Roy Jordan☆
☆Ed too tall Jones☆
☆Harvey Martin☆
☆Cliff Harris☆
☆Everson Walls☆
☆Drew Pearson☆
☆Ralph Neely☆

that's a great list, any who says there isn't a cowboys bias in HOF voting look at number 1 Chuck Howley what a travesty, then there's Cliff Harris all decade 70's team. Look at some who are in the last 2 or 3 years and it is really sickening.

 

[OmerV]

The sluggishness getting some Cowboys in (Renfro had to wait until 1996, Wright until 2006 and Hayes until 2009) probably has hurt the numbers as well. The voting process includes a Dallas media rep (Rick Gosselin) making the argument for potential Cowboys inductees. Having spent years arguing for Renfro, then Wright, then Hayes, he probably was delayed in making the case for other deserving players. The fact Renfro, Wright and Hayes waited so long is really criminal and a good reason to accept that there was bias against the team.

Renfro was a 10-time Pro Bowler and a 7-time All-Pro. He was a Super Bowl champion twice.

Rayfield Wright was a 6-time Pro Bowler, 3-time first-team All-Pro, 3-time second-team All-Pro, 2-time Super Bowl champion and member of the 1970s NFL All-Decade Team.

Hayes is one of the few players who literally changed the game of football. Consider his early domination -- in his first 7 seasons, he caught 67 TD passes and in 4 of those seasons averaged more than 20 yards per catch. He also returned 3 punts for TDs and in 1968 averaged 20.8 yards on 15 returns, including two TDs.

Hayes' star burned out pretty quickly, and if he had been injured and retired after 7 seasons he might have been remembered similarly to Gale Sayers. But he changed the game.

Four non-special teams players from the All-Decade Team of the 1970s haven't been inducted into the HoF. Two are Cowboys (Pearson and Harris). Pearson and Harris are the only two who were on the first team.

I think the delay with Hayes had to do with his drug conviction, but keeping Wright and especially Renfro out so long was wrong.