When building a roster: WWBBD

[jazzcat22]

Then this might not a thread you’re interested in participating. Bobs intent here appears to be thoughts on how Bill might have made tough decisions with our roster.

Perhaps you can start a thread of your own discussing what our HC would do.

Perhaps you did not need to comment about my interest in participating in ANY thread on the forum.
What are you the police of this thread? Are you commenting on everyones response to this or just mine?

Maybe you should start a thread whining about what others post, since you think you should tell them what their interest is or is not.

 

[Diehardblues]

Perhaps you did not need to comment about my interest in participating in ANY thread on the forum.
What are you the police of this thread? Are you commenting on everyones response to this or just mine?

Maybe you should start a thread whining about what others post, since you think you should tell them what their interest is or is not.

Just a suggestion since it seemed to be so bothersome to you.

Im not sure why some fans become so distraught over the subject matter when they see what the title of the thread is?

But please , carry on if so needed.

 

[jazzcat22]

Just a suggestion since it seemed to be so bothersome to you.

Im not sure why some fans become so distraught over the subject matter when they see what the title of the thread is?

But please , carry on if so needed.

There you go, assuming things.
It is not bothersome to me at all, how in the hell did you come up with that.
Fans want to compare this coach or that coach then think they know what BB would do. I commented I don't care what he would do, anymore than I don't care what the Eagles, Giants, Commanders do.

The Cowboys do not control what they do, they can only take care of their own business to improve. They even said that when asked what they thought of the Eagles drafting Wentz. We can only control what we do to get better.

So I posted, I don't care what BB does, only what MM does. That was not out of line for the topic. There have been many other threads that get derailed because some actually have an agenda to do such things.

 

[Adreme]

I mean regarding the current FAs we know most of what BB would do (though whether that is right or not is up for debate as even BB has made many a mistake in free agency and the draft):

1. He absolutely would sign Jason Witten. We know this because last year they carried Watson and he was more done than Witten was. So the act of signing Witten would not be that surprising
2. He would also sign Dez. Taking a flier on a receiver with character concerns who previously put up big numbers to see if there is any tread left on the tires is literally BB 101. A lot of times it has not worked but sometimes it does so it is hard to say what happens but BB routinely does this.
3. He would sign Byron Jones. CBs are the backbone of BBs defense and so he will pay for elite ones because every Super Bowl team he has had he required them in order to make it work and he has in the past paid for them
4. Dak and Amari are unknowns. BB has never been in a position where he has had to pay market value for a QB and WR entering the prime of their careers. We can assume from the deal handed to Brady on his first extension, when he was considered a fairly average QB, that he is not afraid to pay what it takes to get great QB play but that there has not been an example to put either theory to the test.

 

[kskboys]

I mean regarding the current FAs we know most of what BB would do (though whether that is right or not is up for debate as even BB has made many a mistake in free agency and the draft):

1. He absolutely would sign Jason Witten. We know this because last year they carried Watson and he was more done than Witten was. So the act of signing Witten would not be that surprising
2. He would also sign Dez. Taking a flier on a receiver with character concerns who previously put up big numbers to see if there is any tread left on the tires is literally BB 101. A lot of times it has not worked but sometimes it does so it is hard to say what happens but BB routinely does this.
3. He would sign Byron Jones. CBs are the backbone of BBs defense and so he will pay for elite ones because every Super Bowl team he has had he required them in order to make it work and he has in the past paid for them
4. Dak and Amari are unknowns. BB has never been in a position where he has had to pay market value for a QB and WR entering the prime of their careers. We can assume from the deal handed to Brady on his first extension, when he was considered a fairly average QB, that he is not afraid to pay what it takes to get great QB play but that there has not been an example to put either theory to the test.

Byron is not elite, and Belly is known for letting CB's walk. Gilmore is the only one he's paid, possibly ever. And CB"s are not the backbone of the D. The DLine is.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Correct. Jerry’s motivation isn’t driven solely by money. It’s driven by his control and passion to run football operations. The revenue provides him the opportunity to continue his selfish passions.

He contributed his revenue generating ingenuity to secure his football control because he knew that the only thing that would make him change his selfish ways was the fans forcing him to change with revenue declining.

There have been malcontents fans towards Jones for 20 years or more and yet these "fans" haven't played one iota in Jerry;s thinking. In the whole scope of things with the millions of Cowboys fans the relatively tiny percent of those who hate him has not and will never phase Jones in any way. Only that tiny percentage think they can change Jones mind on anything.
.

 

[Adreme]

Byron is not elite, and Belly is known for letting CB's walk. Gilmore is the only one he's paid, possibly ever. And CB"s are not the backbone of the D. The DLine is.

BB gets 2 elite CBs and 1 big buy to stuff the run. That is his defense. He pays 1 guy to stuff the run not an entire DLine. Also it is not the first time he paid a Corner. I think the most he paid was when he went out and bought Revis for a year (well it was a 2 year deal technically but he was always getting cut after 1) when Revis already looked done.

 

[Kaiser]

I thought it was reported that they didn't ask Dez to take a pay cut

Dez said publicly that he wasn't going to take a paycut and wouldn't negotiate on it. He made it all or nothing and the team picked nothing.

 

[Diehardblues]

There have been malcontents fans towards Jones for 20 years or more and yet these "fans" haven't played one iota in Jerry;s thinking. In the whole scope of things with the millions of Cowboys fans the relatively tiny percent of those who hate him has not and will never phase Jones in any way. Only that tiny percentage think they can change Jones mind on anything.
.

Correct. There hasn’t been enough fans outraged enough attempting to impact Jerry to force him changing his ways.

 

[Jake]

There have been malcontents fans towards Jones for 20 years or more and yet these "fans" haven't played one iota in Jerry;s thinking. In the whole scope of things with the millions of Cowboys fans the relatively tiny percent of those who hate him has not and will never phase Jones in any way. Only that tiny percentage think they can change Jones mind on anything.
.

I can't imagine any fan would be dopey enough to think he/she can change Jerry's mind. It's not like he's going to invite one of us to his office for a chat.

 

[kskboys]

BB gets 2 elite CBs and 1 big buy to stuff the run. That is his defense. He pays 1 guy to stuff the run not an entire DLine. Also it is not the first time he paid a Corner. I think the most he paid was when he went out and bought Revis for a year (well it was a 2 year deal technically but he was always getting cut after 1) when Revis already looked done.

Sure, but he's let even more CB's walk. Your assertion was that he always pays corners, and that is far from the truth. BB doesn't always pay any position. A couple other guys who he wouldn't let walk until they were about done were Wilfork and Mankins.

Bill doesn't pay DL's because he's always drafting for them so he doesn't need to.

So, he paid Revis for one year, and it was under market value by the way, and he paid Gilmore. BB does not pay the Byron Jones types.

 

[Verdict]

When our front office is making decisions about who to keep and who to let go of on our roster; which FA to sign, which to avoid...I wish that our decision makers would consider this: “What Would Bill Belechick Do?”

I’m still amazed how many of our fans on this forum think Bill Belechick is lucky just because he’s had Tom Brady. Or that his coaching genius alone is his key to success. Let’s examine this:

• Sure having Tom Brady as their QB has been an advantage but in this cap era, you can’t win 6 SBs over 19 seasons just because you have a great QB. Each of his SB teams have had a ton of different players.
• Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees each only have one SB win, proving that building a successful roster takes more than just a star QB.
• Playing in over half of your conference’s championship games the last two decades isn’t just about Tom Brady or being lucky. It’s about BB and his ability to put together a new roster every year because he constantly churns his roster without any sentimentality.

Belechick’s roster genius is his ability to evaluate each player on his roster with cold-blood in his veins. He doesn’t give a rat’s arse what you did last year if you’re going to cost too much or may lose a step. BB keeps his eyes on the present and future, not the past. Our lifetime contract FO treats their roster more like a family reunion than a football team.

So when considering some of the Cowboys roster ideas I see being considered on this forum, WWBBD?

• Dez Bryant: WWBBD? Not sign him. Period. Take out the sentimental reasons to bring back one of our favorites to somehow be a “4th receiver” is just stupid. Good FOs don’t make moves like this. In a talent starved league like the NFL, if Dez still was still legit, someone would have already signed him.

• Jason Witten- Would Belechick have signed him in 2019? No. Did his inclusion on our roster really help this team? Not really. We resigned Witten because our owner had a soft spot for him.

• Tyrone Crawford- I think BB would have cut him last year.
  
  
• Dak Prescott- I think BB would have already resigned him. The Jones boys act like they are “not going to set the market” and yet make a questionable high dollar deal with their star RB that sets the market...a year earlier than they had to.

• Byron Jones- this one is a little trickier. I think BB would probably let him walk as he has with many of his former star defenders because of cost. But I’m not sure.

This list could go on and on...And I’m of course just guessing what BB would do and I could certainly be wrong on all of these- except Dez and Witten, lol.

Your thoughts?

I agree 100 percent. This fan base applauds feel good contracts and then wonders why we don’t win anything. It’s pay the man (more than what he’s worth) and then wonder why we are not active in free agency.

Witten is almost a cancer at this point. That’s hard to say but true. Sean Lee is a great Cowboy but he needs to be a coach only or gone.

Dez was a liability. Crawford is mostly a liability. If we had saved what we paid to Witten the last few years and put it toward Byrons contract would he be re-signed? IDK but maybe so.

What if we had saved Witten’s money and cut Crawford? Would Byron be sticking around?

 

[blueblood70]

Spotrac on Zeke's Deal

POTENTIAL OUT: 2023, 4 YR, $50,052,137;​

So 12.5/yr over 4 years. Significantly less than 15mil/yr.

Note that we could conceivably trade Zeke before his option bonus is due in March. We would have paid him 8.25mil last year.

If another team is willing to take on the contract for 41.8mil for the next 3 years, I'd do it straight up, though we probably could get some trade value as well. Some low market team might be happy to get a big name RB to put butts in the seats.

exactly but im sick and tired of hearing about the mistake Jerry made signing zeke before dak, Zeke was willing to meeting jerry with a team friendly deal ie long back loaded deal and well Daks the only player to date who wont.. he wants to play hardball and that's his deal not jerrys..

zekes not a 90mil back hes not making 15 per until around yr 4/5/.. dude hated on for no reason. flakey azz fans..

 

[Adreme]

Sure, but he's let even more CB's walk. Your assertion was that he always pays corners, and that is far from the truth. BB doesn't always pay any position. A couple other guys who he wouldn't let walk until they were about done were Wilfork and Mankins.

Bill doesn't pay DL's because he's always drafting for them so he doesn't need to.

So, he paid Revis for one year, and it was under market value by the way, and he paid Gilmore. BB does not pay the Byron Jones types.

He didn't really pay Revis under market value. What he did was create a two-year deal AT market value but push half the cap hit of year 1 onto year 2 and make the salary of the 2ns year not guaranteed so they basically paid half year 1 and half year 2 for a 1 year deal.

BB lets CBs walk when he has 2 better ones and thats about it because every year he didn't have a pair of at least very good cornerbacks they lost.

 

[Verdict]

He would have let Tank walk. He would have let Cooper walk. He would not have paid Zeke. Now what's he going to do with Dak?

He would have flipped Tank for a pick the year before his contract expired. Most likely for a 2nd round pick. See Chandler Jones.

 

[Verdict]

*Not* signing Dez is the emotional move, IMO. Or at least kicking the tires. Dez signed for nothing with NO. The same kind of deal here, making clear to Dez that he's just a role player, is a high upside value move. If you're BB, you make that clear, and see if he'll take it. I think Dez here on a cheap contract is a win-win, *if* Dez can be *happy* being used in a limited fashion. He's a nice veteran fit to replace some of what we'll lose with Cobb walking. Dez *could* be a nice slot WR/runner/blocker, *if* he just wants to play. Which is very likely, on personal and business grounds. I think he'd like to mend fences here, and it will increase his future earnings in retirement if he does.

On Dak, I'm not sure the guy who is holding the door open for Brady to leave necessarily feels he has to hang onto Dak. Probably someone out there he is interested in. Or someones. A lot of quality QBs are available, and when they get signed, that makes *more* QBs available. One of the best years ever to be shopping for a QB.

A ruthless guy weighs the pluses and minuses of everyone available on the market relative to their cost, and doesn't pin his hopes on *one* player. Anyone is replaceable. Except BB. BB is going to work the field for value.

Note that you can't really say WWBBD, because being BB means you have options other teams don't. BB is the top of the list for any player to sign with. Who else would you rather hitch your wagon to? BB can be sure that any QB on the market will be answering his phone calls.

You could sign a high school chemistry teacher to play WR for the vet minimum, just like Dez. Both would have about the same worth except Dez is a cancer. So you would be better off signing the high school chemistry teacher at WR.

Say NO to Dez. Lol

 

[Verdict]

At the moment, Dez is an enigma. We don't know what he has left in the tank. If he had depleted skills, he will be beat out by one of the other receivers. Will Dez be #4? We have 2 unrestricted free agent WR. Btw, I really enjoy your posts. You make me think.

What about Dez is a cancer that people do not get?

 

[Verdict]

I mean regarding the current FAs we know most of what BB would do (though whether that is right or not is up for debate as even BB has made many a mistake in free agency and the draft):

1. He absolutely would sign Jason Witten. We know this because last year they carried Watson and he was more done than Witten was. So the act of signing Witten would not be that surprising
Watson is twice the player Witten currently is. You are way over estimating Witten.
2. He would also sign Dez. Taking a flier on a receiver with character concerns who previously put up big numbers to see if there is any tread left on the tires is literally BB 101. A lot of times it has not worked but sometimes it does so it is hard to say what happens but BB routinely does this.
In order for BB to be interested in signing Dez he would have to think Dez can still play. The fact that BB hasn’t even kicked the tires on Dez when he was low on receivers tell you all you need to know.
3. He would sign Byron Jones. CBs are the backbone of BBs defense and so he will pay for elite ones because every Super Bowl team he has had he required them in order to make it work and he has in the past paid for them
He might actually sign Byron to a team friendly deal and coach him into INTs. So you may be on to something there.
4. Dak and Amari are unknowns. BB has never been in a position where he has had to pay market value for a QB and WR entering the prime of their careers. We can assume from the deal handed to Brady on his first extension, when he was considered a fairly average QB, that he is not afraid to pay what it takes to get great QB play but that there has not been an example to put either theory to the test.

With BB it’s all about value. He would not overpay for Cooper. Dak poses unique issues so I’m not sure what he would do with Dak. I don’t think BB would pay Dak $40m. .

 

[john van brocklin]

When our front office is making decisions about who to keep and who to let go of on our roster; which FA to sign, which to avoid...I wish that our decision makers would consider this: “What Would Bill Belechick Do?”

I’m still amazed how many of our fans on this forum think Bill Belechick is lucky just because he’s had Tom Brady. Or that his coaching genius alone is his key to success. Let’s examine this:

• Sure having Tom Brady as their QB has been an advantage but in this cap era, you can’t win 6 SBs over 19 seasons just because you have a great QB. Each of his SB teams have had a ton of different players.
• Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees each only have one SB win, proving that building a successful roster takes more than just a star QB.
• Playing in over half of your conference’s championship games the last two decades isn’t just about Tom Brady or being lucky. It’s about BB and his ability to put together a new roster every year because he constantly churns his roster without any sentimentality.

Belechick’s roster genius is his ability to evaluate each player on his roster with cold-blood in his veins. He doesn’t give a rat’s arse what you did last year if you’re going to cost too much or may lose a step. BB keeps his eyes on the present and future, not the past. Our lifetime contract FO treats their roster more like a family reunion than a football team.

So when considering some of the Cowboys roster ideas I see being considered on this forum, WWBBD?

• Dez Bryant: WWBBD? Not sign him. Period. Take out the sentimental reasons to bring back one of our favorites to somehow be a “4th receiver” is just stupid. Good FOs don’t make moves like this. In a talent starved league like the NFL, if Dez still was still legit, someone would have already signed him.

• Jason Witten- Would Belechick have signed him in 2019? No. Did his inclusion on our roster really help this team? Not really. We resigned Witten because our owner had a soft spot for him.

• Tyrone Crawford- I think BB would have cut him last year.
  
  
• Dak Prescott- I think BB would have already resigned him. The Jones boys act like they are “not going to set the market” and yet make a questionable high dollar deal with their star RB that sets the market...a year earlier than they had to.

• Byron Jones- this one is a little trickier. I think BB would probably let him walk as he has with many of his former star defenders because of cost. But I’m not sure.

This list could go on and on...And I’m of course just guessing what BB would do and I could certainly be wrong on all of these- except Dez and Witten, lol.

Your thoughts?

Good points, bob

 

[kskboys]

He didn't really pay Revis under market value. What he did was create a two-year deal AT market value but push half the cap hit of year 1 onto year 2 and make the salary of the 2ns year not guaranteed so they basically paid half year 1 and half year 2 for a 1 year deal.

BB lets CBs walk when he has 2 better ones and thats about it because every year he didn't have a pair of at least very good cornerbacks they lost.

Reavis had been getting 16 mil/season, and got 12 from NE. How is that not under market?