When Larry Allen Goes into the HOF, Remember This...

[percyhoward]

When a great running back goes into the Hall of Fame, there's almost always an offensive lineman who blocked for him who also goes into the Hall, even if it happens years later. In the history of the NFL, there have only been two running backs who won three straight rushing titles without the help of a Hall of Fame offensive lineman.

Earl Campbell and Emmitt Smith.

Before 1997, Smith and Campbell are the only backs to win even two consecutive rushing titles without at least one Hall of Famer on the OL.


Years of Back-to-Back Rushing Titles
Team
running back
HOF offensive lineman


1943-44
New York Giants
RB Bill Paschal
OL Mel Hein

1953-54
San Francisco 49ers
RB Joe Perry
OL Leo Nomellini
OL Bob St. Clair

1957-61
Cleveland Browns
RB Jim Brown
OL Mike McCormack

1963-65
Cleveland Browns
RB Jim Brown
OL Gene Hickerson

1972-73 & 1975-76
Buffalo Bills
RB O.J. Simpson
OL Joe Delamielleure

1978-80
Houston Oilers
RB Earl Campbell
No OL in Hall of Fame from those years

1983-84
Los Angeles Rams
RB Eric Dickerson
OL Jackie Slater

1991-93
Dallas Cowboys
RB Emmitt Smith
No OL in Hall of Fame from those years

(btw, if you want to get technical about it, HOF TE Dave Casper played 10 games with the Oilers in 1980, when Campbell won his third straight rushing title.)

Larry Allen's career begain in 1994, after Emmitt had already won 3 straight rushing titles.

 

[EMMITTnROY]

just another thing that people don't realize when debating Emmitt Smith as the all-time greatest rusher..

people make it seem like our entire offensive linemen were HOF guys.. pfft.. Nate Newton said that before Emmitt showed up, they were all just a bunch of fat guys that were worried about losing their jobs, and then Emmitt shows up and all of a sudden they were all Pro Bowlers.. Jimmy Johnson said that Emmitt never got enough credit for making his offensive linemen look good..

this is good, hard evidence though.. Emmitt wins 3 rushing titles and 2 Super Bowls all before his only HOF lineman shows up.. good stuff, percy..

 

[CrazyCowboy]

GOOD points in this thread.....thanks

 

[djtavo]

great post, so true

 

[THUMPER]

Nice job Percy!

 

[DallasFanSince86]

Great job Percy!!!!:bravo:

 

[DawnOfANewD]

How many HOF OL did Barry Sanders have in front of him all those years? Just curious (really, I have no idea). You never really hear about SD's current OL either.

 

[THUMPER]

How many HOF OL did Barry Sanders have in front of him all those years? Just curious (really, I have no idea). You never really hear about SD's current OL either.

Lomas Brown and Kevin Glover were the two best OLs the Lions had. Brown went to 7 Pro-Bowls (1 with the Cards) and could be a consideration for the HoF. Glover was considered one of the best Centers in the league at one point and went to 3 PBs.

With Barry the O-Line wasn't much of a factor as he didn't follow his blocking anyway. Glover said that he hated blocking for Sanders as he would rarely run where he was supposed to run and the OLs were constantly having to disengage and reengage which wore them down and risked injuries as there were bodies all over the place.

 

[BigWillie]

just another thing that people don't realize when debating Emmitt Smith as the all-time greatest rusher..

people make it seem like our entire offensive linemen were HOF guys.. pfft.. Nate Newton said that before Emmitt showed up, they were all just a bunch of fat guys that were worried about losing their jobs, and then Emmitt shows up and all of a sudden they were all Pro Bowlers.. Jimmy Johnson said that Emmitt never got enough credit for making his offensive linemen look good..

this is good, hard evidence though.. Emmitt wins 3 rushing titles and 2 Super Bowls all before his only HOF lineman shows up.. good stuff, percy..

Crawford Ker, John Gesek and Nate Newton at tackle was part of Emmitt's rookie year o-line. He struggled (under 4 YPC) pretty well that year.

The next year we had replaced Ker with Gogan and Moose became the starting FB full time for us.

By his third year, we finally moved Newton inside to guard and put him alongside Tuinei. Then Newton finally became a Pro Bowl player. That same year we drafted Erik Williams.

If not for injuries, I have little doubt Erik would have been HOF worthy.

By '94, we had drafted Larry Allen to go along with those guys.

By '95 our offensive line was ..

LT - Mark Tuinei (Pro Bowler that year)
LG - Nate Newton (Pro Bowler that year)
C - Ray Donaldson (Pro Bowler that year)
RG - Larry Allen (Pro Bowler that year)
RT - Erik Williams (Pro Bowler that year)

You can say that he didn't have HoF talent to run behind, but I'll be dammed if he didn't have one of the best offensive lines for year after year to run behind in the NFL.

That is not to diminish anything Emmitt accomplished, but to take anything away from how talented that line was is completely not fair either.

 

[YosemiteSam]

just another thing that people don't realize when debating Emmitt Smith as the all-time greatest rusher..

people make it seem like our entire offensive linemen were HOF guys.. pfft.. Nate Newton said that before Emmitt showed up, they were all just a bunch of fat guys that were worried about losing their jobs, and then Emmitt shows up and all of a sudden they were all Pro Bowlers.. Jimmy Johnson said that Emmitt never got enough credit for making his offensive linemen look good..

this is good, hard evidence though.. Emmitt wins 3 rushing titles and 2 Super Bowls all before his only HOF lineman shows up.. good stuff, percy..

I think that has more to do with Jimmy Johnson not tolerating "a bunch of fat guys".

Personally, I think this argument is stupid. The "Emmitt is GOD" group won't give the oline the respect it deserved. Nobody in their right mind would question what a great RB Emmitt was, but the oline haters act as if everyone that says Emmitt's oline was part of the reason he performed so well, think that they believe the oline was the only reason Emmitt was any good.

Emmitt and this offensive line were great. Neither would have looked as good as they did without each other.

 

[percyhoward]

You can say that he didn't have HoF talent to run behind, but I'll be dammed if he didn't have one of the best offensive lines for year after year to run behind in the NFL.

I'm talking only about 1991-93, when Emmitt won his first 3 rushing titles.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

And it is not just the OL. Irvin, Novacek, Moose, Harper, and Aikman all helped Emmitt get all those yds. Teams couldn't play all-out run defense because the passing game would have had wreaked havoc. Even a superstar would do little with averge talent around him.

 

[percyhoward]

Obviously Emmitt didn't snap the ball, hand it off to himself, and open up holes for himself. This is more about the fact that he did something that only one other back in the history of the league was able to do--and what that has to do with the reaction to Allen's eventual (and deserved) enshrinement.

I'm 99% sure that reaction will be, "Larry Allen is the biggest reason why Emmitt Smith is in the Hall of Fame." Most people will agree with that. Even though Emmitt and the pre-Allen Cowboys sewed that up while Allen was still at Sonoma State.

 

[AbeBeta]

By '95 our offensive line was ..

LT - Mark Tuinei (Pro Bowler that year)
LG - Nate Newton (Pro Bowler that year)
C - Ray Donaldson (Pro Bowler that year)
RG - Larry Allen (Pro Bowler that year)
RT - Erik Williams (Pro Bowler that year)

You can say that he didn't have HoF talent to run behind, but I'll be dammed if he didn't have one of the best offensive lines for year after year to run behind in the NFL.

That's a really important point, Williams for example, had HoF talent and a few years that stack up to any RT.

Donaldson was a long time starter in the league who got little press because he was on Baltimore/Indy (they had only 3 winning seasons in the 13 years he played there yet he made 4 probowls). Had Donaldson been on better teams, he would likely have received a) more probowl selections and b) HoF consideration.

Newton was outstanding for a few years as was Tui. Not HoF type talents but certainly among the top tier of guys at their positions when they played

 

[percyhoward]

That's a really important point...

It's important if you're trying to build a case for that '95 line, I guess.

Maybe the question is--do you think that '95 line has anything to do with Emmitt being an eventual Hall of Famer?

 

[AbeBeta]

It's important if you're trying to build a case for that '95 line, I guess.

Maybe the question is--do you think that '95 line has anything to do with Emmitt being an eventual Hall of Famer?

Sure. i think there are lots of great players in various situations that prevent them from being among the greatest. everything is part player and part situation.

 

[Future]

I will save this thread and those stats for the sake of arguing with Bills fans.

But the fact that they were all pro-bowlers kinda defeats the purpose IMO.

 

[percyhoward]

Sure. i think there are lots of great players in various situations that prevent them from being among the greatest. everything is part player and part situation.

Generally speaking, yes.

But the question was whether Emmitt owes his certain HOF status to Allen in any way.

Let's say Emmitt blows a knee in training camp of Allen's rookie year, and never plays again. Never having played with Allen, he retires with 3 consecutive rushing titles and two rings--what are his HOF chances?

In the NFL since 1950, there have been only six backs (who are eligible) who won back-to-back rushing titles (forget 3 in a row): Perry, Brown, Simpson, Campbell, Dickerson, and Sanders. All six went into the HOF on the first ballot.

 

[montgod]

When a great running back goes into the Hall of Fame, there's almost always an offensive lineman who blocked for him who also goes into the Hall, even if it happens years later. In the history of the NFL, there have only been two running backs who won three straight rushing titles without the help of a Hall of Fame offensive lineman.

Earl Campbell and Emmitt Smith.

Before 1997, Smith and Campbell are the only backs to win even two consecutive rushing titles without at least one Hall of Famer on the OL.


Years of Back-to-Back Rushing Titles
Team
running back
HOF offensive lineman


1943-44
New York Giants
RB Bill Paschal
OL Mel Hein

1953-54
San Francisco 49ers
RB Joe Perry
OL Leo Nomellini
OL Bob St. Clair

1957-61
Cleveland Browns
RB Jim Brown
OL Mike McCormack

1963-65
Cleveland Browns
RB Jim Brown
OL Gene Hickerson

1972-73 & 1975-76
Buffalo Bills
RB O.J. Simpson
OL Joe Delamielleure

1978-80
Houston Oilers
RB Earl Campbell
No OL in Hall of Fame from those years

1983-84
Los Angeles Rams
RB Eric Dickerson
OL Jackie Slater

1991-93
Dallas Cowboys
RB Emmitt Smith
No OL in Hall of Fame from those years

(btw, if you want to get technical about it, HOF TE Dave Casper played 10 games with the Oilers in 1980, when Campbell won his third straight rushing title.)

Larry Allen's career begain in 1994, after Emmitt had already won 3 straight rushing titles.

Great points, but like other posters have already said, it wasn't like Emmitt's OL was in shambles when he did win those three rushing titles from 91-93.

We are talking about:
Gogan
Gesek
Stepnoski
E. Williams
Newton
Tunei

They were all nasty and pro bowl type OL. No one else could compare to this line which is why we won the titles that we did.

Allen just came in the nick of time to help extend the success of our OL along with key additions like Donaldson, Kenard, Stone, etc. to bridge the gap.

 

[montgod]

Generally speaking, yes.

But the question was whether Emmitt owes his certain HOF status to Allen in any way.

Let's say Emmitt blows a knee in training camp of Allen's rookie year, and never plays again. Never having played with Allen, he retires with 3 consecutive rushing titles and two rings--what are his HOF chances?

In the NFL since 1950, there have been only six backs (who are eligible) who won back-to-back rushing titles (forget 3 in a row): Perry, Brown, Simpson, Campbell, Dickerson, and Sanders. All six went into the HOF on the first ballot.

Good question... to answer your question I would probably point to a similar situation in how T. Davis' career went. He had ridiculous numbers from 95 - 98 won the league MVP, only one rushing title, but still was far and away one of the top three rbs in the league. He then went on to have three or so injury plagued years and was never the same. In his first year of eligibility, he was a semi-finalist for the HOF. So probably E. Smith without Allen would have a harder time to get into the HOF because of how the OL would have performed and possibly had a shorter career because of it. He probably wouldn't be a first ballot HOF like he is now.