Who all has bitcoin?

[Hardline]

It was over $12,000 in July
It's a little over $7000 today.

I am considering buying a couple since it's on a major dip.

 

[EST_1986]

It was over $12,000 in July
It's a little over $7000 today.

I am considering buying a couple since it's on a major dip.

its at a big low for sure, I don't have any but I think facebook is working on a cryptocurrency as well. Don't know how that would affect it either way.

 

[Reality]

Crypto-currencies .. at least in their current iteration .. are nothing more than a scam waiting to happen.

You are buying an idea with no actual asset-based value that you hope one day to sell to someone else who wants to buy an idea with no actual asset-based value.

Most crypto-currency is controlled (and manipulated) by a small number of mega-investors, many of whom use average people as interest generators by selling large (to most people, small to them) batches of their cryptocurrencies, waiting for the sell-off panic and inevitable price drop, then re-buying all of it and more back at a discount, then rinse and repeat.

If you time it right, sure you could make money, but the difference is, there is no oversight so if the average person loses big, loses their crypto-currency wallet or their crypto-currency exchange gets hacked, they are screwed without any recourse.

 

[Reality]

its at a big low for sure, I don't have any but I think facebook is working on a cryptocurrency as well. Don't know how that would affect it either way.

Many of their well-established financial industry members have abandoned it in the last few weeks.

Facebook’s Libra Association has now lost a quarter of its original members
https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/14...n-founders-paypal-visa-mastercard-stripe-ebay

Paypal, Visa, Mastercard, Stripe and Ebay all left it.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Most crypto-currency is controlled (and manipulated) by a small number of mega-investors, many of whom use average people as interest generators by selling large (to most people, small to them) batches of their cryptocurrencies, waiting for the sell-off panic and inevitable price drop, then re-buying all of it and more back at a discount, then rinse and repeat.

You just described the stock market

 

[EST_1986]

Crypto-currencies .. at least in their current iteration .. are nothing more than a scam waiting to happen.

You are buying an idea with no actual asset-based value that you hope one day to sell to someone else who wants to buy an idea with no actual asset-based value.

Most crypto-currency is controlled (and manipulated) by a small number of mega-investors, many of whom use average people as interest generators by selling large (to most people, small to them) batches of their cryptocurrencies, waiting for the sell-off panic and inevitable price drop, then re-buying all of it and more back at a discount, then rinse and repeat.

If you time it right, sure you could make money, but the difference is, there is no oversight so if the average person loses big, loses their crypto-currency wallet or their crypto-currency exchange gets hacked, they are screwed without any recourse.

@Denim Chicken nailed it. You explained the stock market

 

[Reality]

You just described the stock market

Actually, there are TWO huge differences between the stock market.

The first difference, is that stock of companies based on their asset and revenue valuation. In other words, there is a tangible value behind the stock. They also have US-based assets and/or the US has a method of recourse should anything illegal happen with the company.

The second, and by far, most important difference is that the SEC closely monitors the stock markets to stop insider trading and stock manipulations. Crypto-currencies are manipulated by both individual and group-based mega-investors without any oversight. Right now, mega-investors can easily manipulate the price of various crypto-currencies by mass selling and re-buying to make it look like the stock is both tanking and exploding.

 

[Reality]

@Denim Chicken nailed it. You explained the stock market

Afraid not. If it were run like the stock market, every crypto-currency would have a value well below $1.

 

[YosemiteSam]

You just described the stock market

This is only true if you follow "tips" rather than doing your own due diligence into a company.

Cryptocurrency does not have any future cash flow, it doesn't have any fundamentals, it doesn't have any assets. It has nothing except intrinsic value and all that is completely based on speculation due to the sheer fact of what I stated earlier. It has absolute ZERO book value. The only way to make money off of it is to depend on people being tricked into buying it by them not understanding that it has no book value. That is called intrinsic value, but it's calculated (for crypto anyhow) off nothing! A crypto investor is trying to guess what other crypto investors are going to do. Yet there are no financials to look at!!! It's playing poker while blind! lol.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Afraid not. If it were run like the stock market, every crypto-currency would have a value well below $1.

Without question they would be penny stocks.

 

[nobody]

At some point in the future, people are going to look at cryptocurrencies in the same way as Ponzi schemes. It's a sham intended to rip off people by playing on their greed and ignorance.

 

[Hardline]

I know several people who made really good money off bitcoin..
The only thing I basically am trying to decide is if I buy in under $8000 and it rises to around the $12K mark I will immediately cash out and wait until it drops again and buy in again.

 

[Hardline]

Some people I know use bitcoin to buy stuff off the dark web.

 

[nobody]

I know several people who made really good money off bitcoin..
The only thing I basically am trying to decide is if I buy in under $8000 and it rises to around the $12K mark I will immediately cash out and wait until it drops again and buy in again.

The problem with cashing out is you have to find someone willing to buy at the higher price. It's not all that easy to cash them out.

 

[Reality]

I know several people who made really good money off bitcoin..
The only thing I basically am trying to decide is if I buy in under $8000 and it rises to around the $12K mark I will immediately cash out and wait until it drops again and buy in again.

I know people who have made money from it as well, just like I know people who have won money at casinos.

Let's say you buy two bitcoins for $8,000 each today and then one of these scenarios happen such as .. a major bitcoin exchange gets hacked and loses all bitcoins in their exchange (already happened) .. or .. one or more of the mega-investors decides they are done with bitcoin and flood the market with a complete sell-off so they can buy another easily manipulated crypto-currency .. or .. a major financial government such as the US announces they are going to not only investigate bitcoin market manipulation but also immediately block all bitcoin exchanges from operating in the US .. any of which could easily happen. Then the price of bitcoins could not only drop very quickly, it may be impossible to sell your bitcoins immediately or any time in the foreseeable future. You could be out $16,000 or whatever your investment is without a moment's notice.

In the stock market, if a stock starts free-falling and stock owners start panic-selling enough so that a stock's price declines rapidly, the exchanges or SEC can freeze trading for that stock to protect it until either more information comes out or cooler heads prevail. With crypto-currency, a free-for-all stampede is one news story away from a massive free-fall sell-off.

 

[Reality]

As I said, if you time it right, you can make money from crypt-currencies including bitcoins.

You just have to understand that unlike traditional stocks, there are no checks and balances and no safety nets. You are literally gambling (letting it all ride) every second you own any bitcoins.

As long as nothing goes wrong and none of the mega-investors decide they want out, you can ride the ebb-and-flow game of bitcoin market manipulations by mega-investors hoping to jump out when the ride is peaking.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I know several people who made really good money off bitcoin..
The only thing I basically am trying to decide is if I buy in under $8000 and it rises to around the $12K mark I will immediately cash out and wait until it drops again and buy in again.

You do realize that bitcoin was at $3,200 in December of last year right? If you buy at 8k, and it does that again, you will lose $5k for each coin you buy.

So, before I buy into some investment. I try to make sure I understand what and why the price moves. So ask yourself. Why did the price go up so high in December 2017, then drop $14k ($3,200) by December 2018, then $12k by July 2018, and now back to $$7,400 today?

I will say this. Given bitcoin doesn't have any fundamentals, it damn sure looks like manipulation to me. You friend seems to be telling you to invest so you can make money too. (that is called a TIP, see my post above) That's what anyone who owns a stock will tell someone too, because it takes other investors to make money. You can't make money by yourself.

Good luck!

 

[65fastback2plus2]

Hold altcoins, not bitcoin.

 

[Denim Chicken]

The first difference, is that stock of companies based on their asset and revenue valuation.

...and when their revenues aren't growing enough to justify their stock values, they buy back massive quantities of their own shares thus boosting boosts the calculation of profit-per-shares, manipulating the price, which is exactly the same type of manipulation occurring in cryptos.

The second, and by far, most important difference is that the SEC closely monitors the stock markets to stop insider trading and stock manipulations. .

Except for the manipulations they sanction.

I'm not saying Bitcoin is a sound investment, I'm just making the point that it is not inherently different from Wall Street. Heck, many funds include cryptos.

 

[YosemiteSam]

...and when their revenues aren't growing enough to justify their stock values, they buy back massive quantities of their own shares thus boosting boosts the calculation of profit-per-shares, manipulating the price, which is exactly the same type of manipulation occurring in cryptos.

With all due respect. That isn't direct price manipulation. (they are removing float shares) For one, a company has x amount of shares whether they buy the stock back or not. So, profit per share does not change, only the float (link for definition) does. When you calculate profit per share, ALL shares are counted. Not just the float.

Sometimes companies do stock splits. This is usually to make the stock price cheaper so more people can afford buy the stock. (vs say Amazon, Google at $1k+ or, Berkshire Hath at $315k+ per share) Sometimes if the stock gets too cheap, they will do a reverse split making a $5 stock into a $10 stock, but cutting total share count in half. The stock's market capitalization does not change, (ie, the total value of the company didn't change at all) just the total shares and the value of each share does. Does it matter if it's 1 share for $10, or two shares for $10? It's still $10 in vlaue for the same amount of ownership of the company no matter how many shares you own.