Why bust on Barber?

[gimmesix]

I do hope Barber regains his old form next year with Felix as the starter. We are a better team with a "2007 Barber" back again. His salary doesn't escalate into the unaffordable range for two more years. Choice and Felix will still be fairly cheap until then so we can probably afford the status quo.

What you're not getting is his old form was there when he was not limited by injuries. The healthy Barber in 2009 was the same player as the healthy Barber in 2007 minus the stiff-arm.

His numbers are a reflection of that.

 

[Cover 2]

What you're not getting is his old form was there when he was not limited by injuries. The healthy Barber in 2009 was the same player as the healthy Barber in 2007 minus the stiff-arm.

His numbers are a reflection of that.

The question though is if he can stay healthy.

 

[Eskimo]

What you're not getting is his old form was there when he was not limited by injuries. The healthy Barber in 2009 was the same player as the healthy Barber in 2007 minus the stiff-arm.

His numbers are a reflection of that.

Well what good is he then if he is limited the whole year by injuries. It was more or less the same situation much of last year. It does us no good if he is great when uninjured but always injured.

I would say there really isn't enough tape to judge how well he was playing before the injury. The Bucs were terrible in game 1 and the Giants couldn't defend the run at all in game 2 when he got injured. So there isn't much tape of him going up against good defenses when uninjured.

Anyhow, I don't think you're going to see all that much of an uninjured Barber ever again. His body took too much punishment and seems to break down easily.

 

[Frosty]

What, you don't have the patience to prove to a bunch of kids who can't remember what happened in the season they just watched that it's not appropriate to dump on someone who plays well and hard just because he didn't meet their ridiculous expectations in the first place? Really, you should spend some time making them a video that they'll just ignore anyway.

I don't know about a whole season of highlights, but here's some stuff from one of the 16 regular season games.

I think most of us miss the point, Yes MB3 is still good, But DALLAS can not keep 3 GOOD starting caliber RB's on the Roster and keep them happy....


There is just not enough plays to keep them all happy...One of the RB's will be gone, I personnally would try an move MB3 for Draft picks and cleanup some CAP room. Nothin against MB3, he just seems the odd guy out at this point.

 

[gimmesix]

The question though is if he can stay healthy.

Yes, just as it is for Felix and will be for Choice if he gets more playing time.

The truth is all three had their knocks this season, which is one reason it's good to have three capable running backs.

 

[NeonNinja]

A reduction of Barber's workload will benefit the team all around.

 

[gimmesix]

Well what good is he then if he is limited the whole year by injuries. It was more or less the same situation much of last year. It does us no good if he is great when uninjured but always injured.

Why do you limit this to Barber? Look how many games Felix missed his rookie season because of injury. He also was hurt some this year.

Choice, despite his limited carries, suffered a concussion in one game and had his bell rung in another.

We're in a great situation having three capable backs who can split time in this backfield. What we should be doing is celebrating that and hoping that Dallas strikes the right balance in using them.

Instead, some see the need to look past the good that Barber did this season and only see the bad. Or dismiss the good as a product of the offensive line while giving full credit to the other backs for the good things they did.

You take everything away from what Barber did with some excuse ... the line did it, this team wasn't playing good run defense, etc. Yet you don't apply this same reasoning to the success of the other backs. Truth is they all benefitted from good blocking and poor run defenses, and they all suffered at times from poor blocking and strong run defenses.

We're lucky to have all three of them, including this broken-down Barber you think you're seeing. One day maybe you'll understand that.

 

[Thomas82]

Felix has a special talent for breaking off gigantic runs - but he isn't all feast or famine. He demonstrates better vision for between the tackles running than Barber does. It is not just Felix's talent rushing that we can exploit but the threat of him running is a much bigger threat than Barber and opens things up for everybody.

Barber is still an okay player but he looked like a shell of his former self much of the year. His balance just doesn't look very good out there these days and he is very indecisive when running the ball and requires a large hole to be opened to have any success at this point. He wasn't slow when he first came in the league but he wasn't slow either - he just looks slow out there now whenever he hits the open field. Finally there is the thing that you hardly ever see out of him anymore - that is running with power in the second level.

Choice is kind of the jack of all trades but master of none. He is a valuable player and may even be the best of the bunch in some ways - blocking and vision. He is also probably the best of the three runners right now in short yardage because he can squeeze into tight holes, jump over the pile or bounce it to the outside with equal efficacy.

It is as others have said the carries distribution that has got people irritated. I am not sure Garrett and Barber can co-exist on the same football team with another candidate for the top RB spot. Garrett wants Barber to have the vast majority of carries and snaps whereas I and many other posters (and probably Jerry Jones) think the offense is better with Felix in there. If Garrett could curtail his use of Barber to about 10 carries a game mostly focused to the second half, short-yardage and mop-up duty then I have no real issue with Barber being here. He can still be a useful part of the team.

However, on a cost efficiency basis, it is hard to argue about a duo of Felix and Choice. If there is no salary cap, there is no issue. If the salary cap comes back, Barber is the first one who should go because you no longer get much bang for the buck from him playing a backup/complementary sort of role.

 

[Eskimo]

Why do you limit this to Barber? Look how many games Felix missed his rookie season because of injury. He also was hurt some this year.

Choice, despite his limited carries, suffered a concussion in one game and had his bell rung in another.

We're in a great situation having three capable backs who can split time in this backfield. What we should be doing is celebrating that and hoping that Dallas strikes the right balance in using them.

Instead, some see the need to look past the good that Barber did this season and only see the bad. Or dismiss the good as a product of the offensive line while giving full credit to the other backs for the good things they did.

You take everything away from what Barber did with some excuse ... the line did it, this team wasn't playing good run defense, etc. Yet you don't apply this same reasoning to the success of the other backs. Truth is they all benefitted from good blocking and poor run defenses, and they all suffered at times from poor blocking and strong run defenses.

We're lucky to have all three of them, including this broken-down Barber you think you're seeing. One day maybe you'll understand that.

You keep missing the main point - Felix is better than Barber and deserves to be the starter and get most of the carries. That is the fundamental point being made.

The second point being made is that Barber was overused. His ongoing injuries the last two years are IMO suggestive of overuse which have lead to a decline in his burst and power - they have hardly been seen at all for two whole years now. You can say Felix is injured but his injuries were not due to overuse. You can question his durability and that is fair enough but his injuries were mostly noncontact in nature. Felix will have to answer his critics about his durability. However, at the end of the year you could clearly see Felix's talents that lead him to be a 1st rounder are still there. The same thing could not be said of Barber - he was slow and did not run with much authority - almost running through the arm tackle of a bad safety on the Eagles does not constitute running with Barbarian type authority.

Likely we are stuck with Barber because he is untradeable because everyone (including our own FO) thinks his body is shot from overuse and overabuse. He'll probably be back to his 2006&7 role as the complementary back to Felix. We'll get to see if he has any juice left in the tank. I think he plays with us two more years and then is released. The exception would be that if he shows up next year looking like Eddie George after a couple of games he will be released in the offseason.

At this point, we aren't going to change each other's minds so I'm going to exit this thread and give you the last words.

Later, dude.

 

[Don Corleone]

A reduction of Barber's workload will benefit the team all around.

:laugh2:

Correction: A reduction of Barber's celebrating after every 3 yard gain will benefit the team all around.

 

[Thomas82]

You keep missing the main point - Felix is better than Barber and deserves to be the starter and get most of the carries. That is the fundamental point being made.

The second point being made is that Barber was overused. His ongoing injuries the last two years are IMO suggestive of overuse which have lead to a decline in his burst and power - they have hardly been seen at all for two whole years now. You can say Felix is injured but his injuries were not due to overuse. You can question his durability and that is fair enough but his injuries were mostly noncontact in nature. Felix will have to answer his critics about his durability. However, at the end of the year you could clearly see Felix's talents that lead him to be a 1st rounder are still there. The same thing could not be said of Barber - he was slow and did not run with much authority - almost running through the arm tackle of a bad safety on the Eagles does not constitute running with Barbarian type authority.

Likely we are stuck with Barber because he is untradeable because everyone (including our own FO) thinks his body is shot from overuse and overabuse. He'll probably be back to his 2006&7 role as the complementary back to Choice. We'll get to see if he has any juice left in the tank. I think he plays with us two more years and then is released. The exception would be that if he shows up next year looking like Eddie George after a couple of games he will be released in the offseason.

At this point, we aren't going to change each other's minds so I'm going to exit this thread and give you the last words.

Later, dude.

I agree, Barber is done.

 

[gimmesix]

You keep missing the main point - Felix is better than Barber and deserves to be the starter and get most of the carries. That is the fundamental point being made.

Never disagreed with this point, and actually made it myself much earlier in this thread.

I just disagree with everything else you have to say.

 

[Eskimo]

Never disagreed with this point, and actually made it myself much earlier in this thread.

I just disagree with everything else you have to say.

We probably really don't disagree that much here.

I'm just not convinced Barber is about to bounce back to his 2007 form. We'll see in 8 months.

 

[dwmyers]

Barber was never the same back after the injury in the Giants game. He didn't suddenly break down.

It will be interesting to see if he plays at the same level next year or never gets it all back.

Turning Barber into a starter was a mistake. I said it at the time, I'll say it now. If the Boys want the most effective Barber, he can't have more than 10 carries before the 4th quarter. He needs to be used as a closer.

And for those who think I didn't say that, I still have my web page from that time..

http://home.comcast.net/~dwm042/rbtable.htm

There is a side of me that thinks we lost the 2007 playoff game because we made Barber a starter in that game. He ran pretty well throughout the first half too. The second half was a different story. And we didn't have the guy we needed to close out the game.

~~~

But what's hilarious is how this board is turning on Barber the same way they turned on Julius Jones. And they're using many of the same arguments that were in use then to promote Choice and Jones now.

It's like, deja vu.

Jones is fantastic if he stays healthy. That's a pretty big if. He's had an injury every season we've had him.

Choice makes sense as a starter, but please don't expect miracles from a tough minded small back. Use him too much and he'll break down too.

It's unfortunate that our standards are players like Tony Dorsett and Emmitt Smith because the average runner isn't Tony or Emmitt. They need to be paced to be effective.

To see an example of small back overuse, check out Joe Morris's career stats. How many years was he effective? 3 maybe?

And for those who remember Doctor Z and ever read "A Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football", do you recall his chapter on running backs?

 

[Kangaroo]

Turning Barber into a starter was a mistake. I said it at the time, I'll say it now. If the Boys want the most effective Barber, he can't have more than 10 carries before the 4th quarter. He needs to be used as a closer.

And for those who think I didn't say that, I still have my web page from that time..

http://home.comcast.net/~dwm042/rbtable.htm

There is a side of me that thinks we lost the 2007 playoff game because we made Barber a starter in that game. He ran pretty well throughout the first half too. The second half was a different story. And we didn't have the guy we needed to close out the game.

~~~

But what's hilarious is how this board is turning on Barber the same way they turned on Julius Jones. And they're using many of the same arguments that were in use then to promote Choice and Jones now.

It's like, deja vu.

Jones is fantastic if he stays healthy. That's a pretty big if. He's had an injury every season we've had him.

Choice makes sense as a starter, but please don't expect miracles from a tough minded small back. Use him too much and he'll break down too.

It's unfortunate that our standards are players like Tony Dorsett and Emmitt Smith because the average runner isn't Tony or Emmitt. They need to be paced to be effective.

To see an example of small back overuse, check out Joe Morris's career stats. How many years was he effective? 3 maybe?

And for those who remember Doctor Z and ever read "A Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football", do you recall his chapter on running backs?

I was of the same mind as soon as Jerry payed the guy as a top 10 back I knew he was going to start and he had to start at that money. That is where Jerry the GM panicked and over payed Barber