Why Can't fans accept the facts about Spencer?

[Manwiththeplan]

To add to this, he's not going anywhere. Please stop the trade Spencer posts. As unhappy as some fans are with him, the Cowboys are that more pleased with his play.

Kinda why I disreguard any mock draft that has us taking Quinn. If he's there and the BPA, expect a trade.

 

[the truth of it all]

Im going to agree on the point where he did have a solid year in run coverage.

Thats where im going to end my agreement.. he's been in the same scheme or was rather, for about three years? four? w/e but Last year he did well in his opportunities.. This year he did not.. I dont think wade blitzed him significantly less . He was just calling dumb and uncreative blitzes.

didnt do well at all covering anyone.. but cant say i really expected him to shut anyone down in that regard.. neither do i from ware.


Rob should be a big help scheme wise. Esp if we can get a true nose and move ratliff to end..

08 to 09 the defense was great wade gave up before the year started it seems.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Some fans expected Spencer to play all the time like he did the end of '09, and they're disappointed that he didn't. (That probably wasn't realistic anyway.) Then a certain segment of fans grade him down because they associate him with Wade. You can usually tell them because they act like Bradie and Spears are great underappreciated players but Spencer is garbage, when at worst they're all about the same.

Really, Jenkins lost us more games than Spencer did, but few call for him to be outright dumped. They think of him as a talented player that had a really bad year and can still be salvaged. Spencer is in the same boat.

You don't ditch a guy like him. He showed that he could really play a couple years ago. A Rob Ryan will think they can get that '09 performance out of him again.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Spencer will have a monster year in 2011, book it!

 

[the truth of it all]

If we dont have an upgrade in defensive personell at all.. and roll with basically the same starters . My expectations for him are that he will have a slight uptick in production next season from this year.. He should be platooned if he cant return to form. Thats what i think people need to realize we didnt draft him to be OK or just good enough. This entire threads full of excuses

 

[BAT]

Some fans expected Spencer to play all the time like he did the end of '09, and they're disappointed that he didn't. (That probably wasn't realistic anyway.) Then a certain segment of fans grade him down because they associate him with Wade. You can usually tell them because they act like Bradie and Spears are great underappreciated players but Spencer is garbage, when at worst they're all about the same.

Really, Jenkins lost us more games than Spencer did, but few call for him to be outright dumped. They think of him as a talented player that had a really bad year and can still be salvaged. Spencer is in the same boat.

You don't ditch a guy like him. He showed that he could really play a couple years ago. A Rob Ryan will think they can get that '09 performance out of him again.

I think you can lump James, Spears and Spencer in the same category. They are average players, nothing more. Thinking they will be more, so passing on the opportunity to replace with an upgrade is what frustrates me most of all. Landry and Parcells held to the 3 year rule. Well, 4 seasons have gone by and Spencer (really, all three) are exactly what they are_nothing special.

Hoping for a breakout year every season for Spencer. Definition of insanity.

 

[Chuck 54]

An aging Greg Ellis got 8 sacks from that position his last year here. 12.5 the year before. Its clearly not just the scheme.

Taking out the game against backups in Philly, Spencer got 2 in 15 games. And Wade was blitzing him like crazy the first 8 games when he realized we couldn't cover anybody and was desperate to get a quick pass rush.

Furthermore until late in the year his run containment was atrocious.

The whole point of using another 1st round pick on a pass rushing OLB was to create a threat opposite of Ware to keep the constant double teams off of him. So far other than a 5 or 6 game stretch last year, he has failed to do that.

He's not asked to be Ware, and no one expects him to be. But expecting him to be better than a 33 year old Ellis isn't too much to ask from a 1st round pick in his 4th season.

Slightly different situation...we knew Greg Ellis was no lb...rushing him was one of our only options without exposing him.

 

[Chuck 54]

This won't change anyone's opinion, I'm sure, but Spencer was credited on NFL.com with 63 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 2 forced fumbles.

Ware had 66 tackles, 1 pass defensed, 2 forced fumbles, but 15.5 sacks.

There is room for improvement by Spencer, but he was playing some football and producing on the field if these stats are correct.

Ware had 84 tackles, 20 sacks, and 6 forced fumbles in 2008, so one could argue that his production was down as well...I think both players would benefit from upgrading the front 3. Our DL sucks, and I don't understand why people want to bring back Spears, who gives us nothing, who can't win any 1-1 battles to get a sack now and then, and who doesn't push the pocket. Anyone who watched the GB Dline last night and last week saw them destroying the Philly and Atlanta pockets...Ware would easily get 20+ sacks if our DL could push the pocket back that way.

Maybe I'm wrong and stupid like some of the posters in this thread suggest, but I'm satisfied with our OLBs...I want to see a serious upgrade on the DL in at ILB. I think that will also help our secondary.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I do not want to get rid of him, but if somebody thinks he didnt regress in 2010 they are as high as a kite. Outside of Ware, almost everybody else on defense had a down season, so I am going to give Spencer the benefit of the doubt here.

However, like Garrett said already, players are going to have to earn their jobs in training camp and that goes for Spencer as well. This business of players starting simply because they were first round picks has to stop, Spencer will have an opportunity to compete for a starting job with everybody else and let the best player win it.

 

[TNCowboy]

:laugh2: at anyone defending Spencer. His decline in play was a huge reason why the defense went in the toilet.

He doesn't rush as much as Ware, but he has loads of opportunity to rush and does virtually nothing with it. He was miserable this year, especially compared to the end of the 2009 season. He repeatedly got caught inside on big runs, and is average (at best) in coverage.

It's time to accept that we've had him for 4 years, and for the most part, he's been nothing more than a jag. The mediocre and bad play we saw this year, sadly, has been more indicative of the kind of player he's been as oppposed to the stellar month he had in December 2009.

 

[Baileyneverfailey]

It's not like Spencer only rushes 5 times a game. He rushes plenty enough to get more than 5 sacks. Plus, it's not even just about the sacks. In 2009 he was getting a lot of pressure but the sacks didn't start coming until the last half of the season. This year he wasn't getting even the pressure, and he regressed in his run stopping duties at times.

I like Spencer, I really do, but he has to improve.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Folks want to hang Spencer for his low sack total.

But where's the outrage over the 4 defensive ends COMBINING for 3.5 sacks?

 

[burmafrd]

Folks want to hang Spencer for his low sack total.

But where's the outrage over the 4 defensive ends COMBINING for 3.5 sacks?

Outside of Seymour, how many real pass rushing DE's are there with the teams that have the 3-4? Most teams in the 3-4 get less than a quarter to a fifth of their sacks from their DE's. So for most teams that is around 6 sacks or so. No one expects a lot of sacks from their DE's. Now pressure as in pushing the pocket yes. But not sacks.

 

[perrykemp]

Outside of Seymour, how many real pass rushing DE's are there with the teams that have the 3-4? Most teams in the 3-4 get less than a quarter to a fifth of their sacks from their DE's. So for most teams that is around 6 sacks or so. No one expects a lot of sacks from their DE's. Now pressure as in pushing the pocket yes. But not sacks.

Jenkins in GB had 7 sacks in about 13 games. He is a FA at the end of the season.

 

[burmafrd]

Jenkins in GB had 7 sacks in about 13 games. He is a FA at the end of the season.

That puts him near the top in the league for 3-4 DE's. He is going to get serious money.

 

[dbair1967]

To add to this, he's not going anywhere. Please stop the trade Spencer posts. As unhappy as some fans are with him, the Cowboys are that more pleased with his play.

We'll see I guess. Although I do suspect our new DC might get more out of him in terms of pass rushing.

On the other hand, if Ryan looks at tape and thinks the guy's a stiff, I have little doubt that one of our early picks in April is gonna be an OLB. Maybe even the first pick.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Outside of Seymour, how many real pass rushing DE's are there with the teams that have the 3-4? Most teams in the 3-4 get less than a quarter to a fifth of their sacks from their DE's. So for most teams that is around 6 sacks or so. No one expects a lot of sacks from their DE's. Now pressure as in pushing the pocket yes. But not sacks.

Come'on all the defensive ends combined should have more than 3.5 sacks total...

Spencer having 5 sacks or ALL the DE's having 3.5... Which is more unacceptable?

 

[burmafrd]

Come'on all the defensive ends combined should have more than 3.5 sacks total...

Spencer having 5 sacks or ALL the DE's having 3.5... Which is more unacceptable?

equally as bad

 

[MichaelWinicki]

equally as bad

Uh.

No.

Hey, it's like this Spencer's year wasn't good. I accept that.

But Olshansky and Spears had 0 sacks.

I think that's worse.

 

[Baileyneverfailey]

3-4 ends are not huge pass rushers, but good ones still get clean up sacks because guys like Ware(and Spencer) are the ones the offense is focused on blocking.

Pittsburgh doesn't have a Cullen Jenkins type of player at DE, but their ends clean up on some sacks every year. Canty was good for 2 or 3 a year when he was here and he's not even a very good rusher.

Igor is a complete scrub when it comes to rushing. Spears should get more IMO considering the way he played in college, and Bowen and Hatcher have no excuse other than maybe lack of PT, because they're both better at rushing than they are stopping the run.